Need some education on buying by board foot please

[Randall J Cox]

Just bought some hardwood from a lumber yard, all 1"x10' pieces with various widths 6-11" wide. Ordered a couple of 8/4 boards, also 10', same hardwood. Price of 8/4 was almost twice the price of 4/4 per board foot. I thought buying by board foot was an equalizer, only paying for how many cubic inches/feet of lumber you buy. Didn't realize thicker lumber priced higher per board foot until after I ordered and it was delivered. Is this normally the way wood is priced at lumber yards? Tx.

[Matt Day]

Yes.
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[Dave Lehnert]

Yes. 2" thick boards cost twice as much as 1" thick. 12"x12"x1" is one board foot. 12"x12" x2" board is 2 board foot.

[glenn bradley]

Some yards start to charge a "wide board" premium at 9", some at 11", and some not at all. I am fortunate that I have a few yards to choose from and so have "tuned" my sourcing over time. My favored yard is an hour or so away but, is close to Dad's house so I combine the trip with a visit. These folks are good enough to snag any really interesting stock and set it aside for me. Building your relationship with your suppliers is an important part of the craft as far as I'm concerned.

[Geoff Crimmins]

Where I live the price per board foot is higher for 8/4 boards than for 4/4 boards. I'm not really sure why, though.

--Geoff

[Martin Wasner]

Where I live the price per board foot is higher for 8/4 boards than for 4/4 boards. I'm not really sure why, though.

--Geoff

Because thicker stock requires more time in the kiln, requires more effort if there's any hand handling, and the thicker the material, the harder it can be to get a quarter or rift sawn from the log.

[Steve Demuth]

I generally pay a premium of 30% to as much as 80% per bf on 8/4 native hardwoods over 4/4. This reflects the longer kiln time for thicker stock, as well as lower yield per log of select and better in the thicker cuts. The price really jumps for 12/4, when you can get it.

[roger wiegand]

I bought some 20/4 cherry to make bed posts a few years ago. You don't want to know! (The bed came out very well, and I've never regretted making them from single boards)

Yes, 8/4 will have a different price per bf than 4/4 or 5/4. Typically higher, 2x is more of a bump than I'm used to seeing for typical NA hardwoods.

[Danny Hamsley]

It takes 2.5 times as long to dry 8/4 versus 4/4. There is more chance of drying defects like checks and splits in 8/4 (thicker so easier to dry too fast and mess it up), so there is more downgrade loss to the producer. It generally takes larger logs to saw 8/4 stock that will be straight, flat, and stable because the wood in 8/4 is best if does not include the pith or come from wood that is directly adjacent to the pith. Larger logs cost more than smaller logs. I charge a 1.5 times rate for 8/4 over 4/4, so if the 4/4 price is $4.00/bf, then the 8/4 price is $6.00/bf. Wide 8/4 boards are twice as heavy, and most people want wide stock, so for a small producer like me, handling 8/4 is more of a chore than 4/4.

[Rick Moyer]

Yes. 2" thick boards cost twice as much as 1" thick. 12"x12"x1" is one board foot. 12"x12" x2" board is 2 board foot.
No, what he is asking is, is the price PER bf higher for thicker material, and as others have already said: Yes 8/4 or 12/4 etc will cost more PER bf than 4/4.

[Robert Engel]

There is an upcharge for 8/4 lumber but its generally 5-30% more per BF depends on the species. When you're talking to a sawyer things are different. I've dealt with sawyers who charge the same price for everything. I think what they're telling you is they only want to sell 4/4 lumber.

Here's an example (these are retail prices for rough lumber) Steve Wall (http://www.walllumber.com/premier.asp):
Mahogany: 4/4 = 5.25 8/4 = 5.55
Walnut: 4/4 = 6.25 8/4 = 7.00

Also, be aware BF is calculated from original dims off the mill, so a board measuring 8 1/2 to 9" wide you may be charged for 10" wide.

[Scott T Smith]

There is an upcharge for 8/4 lumber but its generally 5-30% more per BF depends on the species. When you're talking to a sawyer things are different. I've dealt with sawyers who charge the same price for everything. I think what they're telling you is they only want to sell 4/4 lumber.

Here's an example (these are retail prices for rough lumber) Steve Wall (http://www.walllumber.com/premier.asp):
Mahogany: 4/4 = 5.25 8/4 = 5.55
Walnut: 4/4 = 6.25 8/4 = 7.00

Also, be aware BF is calculated from original dims off the mill, so a board measuring 8 1/2 to 9" wide you may be charged for 10" wide.

Robert, if I may provide a couple of corrections to your comments...

Lumber is sold either by green measure or by dry measure. Green measure lumber is sold by the milling thickness, as per your closing statement. However, most folks that sell kiln dried lumber sell it based upon dry measure.

The difference between the two measures is usually between 6% - 12% in width and thickness, depending upon species and milling pattern. For instance, a 4/4 thick flat sawn oak board sold on green measure is milled at 1" thick, and dries to 15/16" thick, whereas a 4/4 flat sawn oak board sold on the dry measure is milled at 1-1/16" thick and dries to 1".

The real driver of cost for lumber thicker than 4/4 is the drying and handling costs, coupled with degrade losses - as Danny and others have mentioned. Most millers selling green lumber charge about the same per board foot if the 8/4 lumber is smaller pieces (8/4 x 6" x 8' that weighs 55 lbs green) that does not increase their handling time. However, if they are milling 8/4 x 12" x 16' planks that weigh 250 lbs they most likely will charge more per board foot.

[Randall J Cox]

Wow, learned a lot. Thanks everyone for replies. Now I understand why I paid what I paid. With all the reading I've done on these sites, you'd think I'd have this sorted out by now, however, never bought this much or 8/4 before - learning curve. Thanks again for sharing this info!! Randy

[Robert Engel]

Robert, if I may provide a couple of corrections to your comments...

Lumber is sold either by green measure or by dry measure. Green measure lumber is sold by the milling thickness, as per your closing statement. However, most folks that sell kiln dried lumber sell it based upon dry measure.

The difference between the two measures is usually between 6% - 12% in width and thickness, depending upon species and milling pattern. For instance, a 4/4 thick flat sawn oak board sold on green measure is milled at 1" thick, and dries to 15/16" thick, whereas a 4/4 flat sawn oak board sold on the dry measure is milled at 1-1/16" thick and dries to 1".

The real driver of cost for lumber thicker than 4/4 is the drying and handling costs, coupled with degrade losses - as Danny and others have mentioned. Most millers selling green lumber charge about the same per board foot if the 8/4 lumber is smaller pieces (8/4 x 6" x 8' that weighs 55 lbs green) that does not increase their handling time. However, if they are milling 8/4 x 12" x 16' planks that weigh 250 lbs they most likely will charge more per board foot.

Thanks for that. I just remember one time I purchased from a supplier that's the way they charged.

The last time, tho, they just stacked all the boards on a forklift, measured H, W, and L, and computed board feet. I didn't complain a bit!

Is this the Scott I'm supposed to be buying the QSWO from in NC?? If so, yes I'm still coming!!

[Scott T Smith]

Thanks for that. I just remember one time I purchased from a supplier that's the way they charged.

The last time, tho, they just stacked all the boards on a forklift, measured H, W, and L, and computed board feet. I didn't complain a bit!

Is this the Scott I'm supposed to be buying the QSWO from in NC?? If so, yes I'm still coming!!

Hi Bob, yes, it's me.

Sometimes we'll measure H,W, and L and calculate accordingly. Lot's faster that way.

Looking forward to meeting you in person.

Scott