Jointer Plane

[Stewie Simpson]

I am still in the early stages of building a wooden jointer plane. The design for the closed rear tote is based on the more commonly found 3 finger entry of the 1700s. The bed angle will be 52*.(an allowance of +2* for the tapered iron). The DAR dimensions of the main stock are 2 3/8" x 2 3/8" x 28". The original double irons width of 2 1/8"was reduced down to 1 13/16".

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0092_zpspvw72chw.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0092_zpspvw72chw.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0090_zpshybxgcdw.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0090_zpshybxgcdw.jpg.html)

In rift sawn lumber
the annual rings are typically
between 30-60 degrees, with
45 degrees being optimum.
Manufactured by milling perpendicular
to the log’s growth
rings producing a linear grain
pattern with no flecking. This
method produces the most
waste, increasing the cost of
this lumber. Rift sawn lumber is
the most dimensionally stable
cut of lumber available and has
a unique linear appearance.

http://www.edensaw.com/MainSite/Store1/Content/SiteContent/1/Home/documents/woodcutdiagram.pdf

http://www.hardwooddistributors.org/blog/postings/what-is-the-difference-between-quarter-sawn-rift-sawn-and-plain-sawn-lumber/

[William Fretwell]

That will give you 1/4" of wood either side with some wiggle room for the blade. With only 2 & 3/8" deep for that length of plane I wonder if it will be enough to stop the reference face flexing a little.

[Stewie Simpson]

That will give you 1/4" of wood either side with some wiggle room for the blade. With only 2 & 3/8" deep for that length of plane I wonder if it will be enough to stop the reference face flexing a little.

William; keep in mind the bed angle will increase that length of measurement.

[William Fretwell]

That's true but the width of the groove also increases the longer it is. If you put a small strip of wood under each end and apply weight to the centre you may get an idea how much it takes to flex the wood 1/16" then divide by 5 to guestimate the weight with a groove in.
It would be interesting to measure it for the rest of us before and after.
In use if it does flex it becomes more of a fore plane.
Next time in my shop I will do the same with my iron jointer to see how much flex I have, although the damn thing is concave to start with!

[george wilson]

I like your handle design! Looks like one of mine. Except for the unique little peak on the inside curve.

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks George. You may wish to post a pic of your rear tote for a visual comparison.

[Jim Belair]

I too like the handle design, especially the little peak on the inside curve.

How did you reduce the iron width from 2-1/8" to 1-13/16"?

[Stewie Simpson]

I too like the handle design, especially the little peak on the inside curve.

How did you reduce the iron width from 2-1/8" to 1-13/16"?

Jim; a 12" Bench Top Disk Sander was used to resize the width of blade and cap iron. Constant immersion in water was required to negate overheating the steel.

[george wilson]

There is already a picture posted some years ago here of a jointer I made. The handle is very similar to yours,save for the inside curve's peak. Possibly search "a jointer I made". I'll check it out and reply if it does the trick.

[george wilson]

My handle was shown in "A large jointer I made". My handle does have some different curvey features. Been a while since I looked at it.

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks George.

[steven c newman]

359541
Ohio Tool Co. #81...with original handle.....

[Pete Taran]

Stewie,

While it's hard to deny that the visual appeal of your handle is striking, it has me wondering how comfortable it will be to use? When I made the first IT handle there was a lot of discussion with Patrick about what it would look like and what period it should come from. We settled on a version from around 1830 with the main consideration being comfort in use.

I'm curious about the thought process you went through to choose a much earlier handle? In my linear way of thinking, if that was the best design for a jointer plane handle, then you would see a handle on that like the planes that were made in their heyday, around 1870. Instead, you see a much more comfortable and larger grip like the photo Steve posted.

If the goal was to see how an early handle feels in use, then that's the answer. If there is another compelling reason, I for one would be interested in your thought process. I presume if you use hide glue to put the handle in place, if you don't like it you can remove it and try another design.

All the best,

Pete

[Pat Barry]

Hi Stewie, It would be nice to see a picture of your hand holding the new tote as its intended to be used.

[Mike Baker 2]

That looks beautiful, Stewie.

[Stewie Simpson]

Stewie,

While it's hard to deny that the visual appeal of your handle is striking, it has me wondering how comfortable it will be to use? When I made the first IT handle there was a lot of discussion with Patrick about what it would look like and what period it should come from. We settled on a version from around 1830 with the main consideration being comfort in use.

I'm curious about the thought process you went through to choose a much earlier handle? In my linear way of thinking, if that was the best design for a jointer plane handle, then you would see a handle on that like the planes that were made in their heyday, around 1870. Instead, you see a much more comfortable and larger grip like the photo Steve posted.

If the goal was to see how an early handle feels in use, then that's the answer. If there is another compelling reason, I for one would be interested in your thought process. I presume if you use hide glue to put the handle in place, if you don't like it you can remove it and try another design.

All the best,

Pete

Pete; Paul Sellers wrote a excellent article on "Sizing Saw Handles".

https://paulsellers.com/2014/10/questions-answered-sizing-saw-handles/

You may also find the following an interesting read. Note the reason given for extending the index finger down the side of the saw handle.

https://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2009/11/holdsaw.png


Hold the saw firmly, with forefinger extended along the side of the handle.


How to hold the saw. Just grip the handle so that your forefinger extends along the side of the handle. This helps you “point” the saw along the line and ensures more accurate cuts.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2009/11/03/toolmanship-how-to-use-a-handsaw/

The finger hole within rear totes of wooden bodied bench planes during the 1700s were sized to fit a 3 finger entry, allowing the index finger to extend clear of the finger hole. No different to that seen within closed saw handles of the same circa.

regards Stewie;

[Pete Taran]

Stewie,

I'm very familiar with the concept of the three finger grip with saws, it has remained that way from the beginning. You don't see many saws made with tiny, uncomfortable, oval holes in their handles though. They evolved, just as plane handles did to maximize control and comfort. It's that notion I'm inquiring about, what was your motivation for using an early, not as comfortable design for your scratch build plane? As I mentioned earlier, if it's to have a replica of an early 18th century plane, I totally get it. If it's something else, I'm curious to know.

Regards,

Pete

[William Fretwell]

The straight finger increases your 'sense' of twist starting a cut but after that does nothing for the comfort of serious sawing of a board, in fact I find it a lot more uncomfortable for the serious sawing.

[Stewie Simpson]

Pete; to be honest I don't expect the rear tote on the Jointer Plane I am building to be uncomfortable in use. The 2 key measurements, the back of the grip, and the inner 3 finger hole, were both measured during design th design phase to suit my hand size. At a measurement of 3 12" across all 4 fingers, its unlikely my hands would fall within the overly small classification.

As to the reasons why there was a later shift during the 1800s to a larger sized finger hole within totes of both backsaws and bench rear totes, most likely the impetus moved away from the craftsmen providing a personalized fit, to a 1 size fits all mentality. No different to what hand tool makers from the later periods of the 1800s were providing.

Stewie;

[george wilson]

Pete: I made exact copies of original 18th. C. planes the museum furnished. The 3 finger grip was common. In fact,the grip may have taken less than 3 fingers in 18th. C.,or earlier planes. In Elizabethan times,the tote was installed right on the edge of the plane with one broad dovetail joint,sometimes augmented with a user applied nail. The key to this grip was to avoid carpal tunnel. The web between the first finger and the thumb is what did the pushing. Other fingers went down the side of the plane.

By the 18th. C.,the handle was still not yet centered on the plane body. As pictures of a jack plane I made have shown,the handle was still more to the right side of the body (from the operator's perspective). The handle was way too short for all the fingers to be used,so a few of them still went down the right side of the plane body. The handle came within 1/8" of touching the blade from beneath. There was definitely no room for all the fingers.

The pictures below show something of the development of tools (BUT,that development wasn't always in the CORRECT direction!)

Picture #1 shows a French 18th. C. style plane I made from illustrations in Diderot. Even on their long planes they had that stylized snail shell on the front. It allowed the web of the thumb to push the shell forwards,while the web of the other thumb did the pushing on the rear,just under the iron. They also used(and more commonly) a nearly horizontal rear handle which still avoided getting carpal tunnel. But,I think it was awkward. I never made a plane in that style. I didn't have to anyway: The plane was French,and the museum was primarily English,though some French presence was there. Indeed,the only original map we have of the 18th. C. town,is called "The Frenchman's Map". I found a French gun flint outside my shop,where a large elm tree was always pushing artifacts up out of the ground! French flints were a totally different color from the grey English flints. And,this one had never been used.

Picture #2 is the 19th. C. style handle I designed,and had mentioned to Stewie earlier in this thread. It accommodates ALL the fingers,and is centered on the plane body. I guess they had by then forgotten the lessons that earlier craftsmen had already learned.


Picture #3 is of a dovetail saw that was indeed the favorite of the Cabinet Maker's Shop. The very thin .015" blade was hard to get these days,unless you went Japanese,which was not allowed in the English based museum. The point of the picture,however,is to show the very small handle. You could not get all of your fingers in that handle,nor even in the larger open handle saws we made. The original maker as Dalaway. To my eye,the design of the handle is not fully developed in an aesthetic sense. But,our duty was to copy,so there it is.

Pictures 4,5,and 6 are of the jack plane I have mentioned. The handle JUST made it under the handle,very nearly touching it,indeed. Picture % shows the offset to the right,though the shadow messes up the view some. Picture #6 with the rule,gives you a way to enlarge the photo yourself and see how short the handle really is. Look at how offset the handle is compared to the WEDGE to get a better idea of how offset the handle is.

Picture #7 is of the White backsaw,from the earlier 18th. C.,and the only one in existence, though it is known to have been popular in the 18th. C. It had the short opening in the handle,forcing you to lay a finger down beside the handle in use. There are no specialized saw screws. The screws look like doctored up commonly used nuts and bolts from the period. They rather crudely filed notches in the nuts. They hadn't yet figured out how to GRACEFULLY terminate the saw back. If you look close,the blade of the saw is rounded off,and left to just stick out of the saw back. The saw back was made of thin,cheap looking sheet metal about 1/16" thick. The whole handle,to me,looks crudely designed,and the original still had rasp marks,flat spots,and other bad looking craftsmanship about it. Why it was popular,I don't know. I guess it sawed o.k.. The earlier you go,the more CRUDE the English tools were made,as a general rule. We saw tools du up from Henry VIII's Ship,the Rose. They had been buried in silt and though the iron parts had dissolved long ago,the beech wood was still pink,and remarkably just like new. I would not have liked to be stuck with those tools!

William,putting one finger down the side of a SAW handle still tends to put the force of sawing more into the web of the thumb. Put ALL the fingers into the saw handle,and the palm of the hand begins to take the force,which is what earlier tool users knew. They really wanted to avoid carpal tunnel,as if they got a severe case of it, and could not work, their families would starve. Those people used their tools all day,every day except Sundays. And those days were hours longer than we work today. I had to have both hands operated on,though I have large,strong hands.and did not work anywhere near the hours of those early craftsmen.

Stewie: I see nothing wrong with your handle.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

In the back of my mind I want to build a plane. I was thinking about starting with a plane designed to create the groove needed for a drawer bottom. What you are doing feels more difficult to me.... and lots of fun. Very nice indeed!

[steven c newman]

There was a video series out on youtube, from GE Hong ( I think, maybe under a different label, now) and he shows how to make such a groove cutting plane. I used another of his videos to craft a Traditional Chinese Edge plane.....
359636
I would use a better wood than the white oak I used, though.

[Warren Mickley]

The 1870's were not the "heyday" for bench planes. By that date furniture was made in factories with machine planed boards and there were mills for flooring, mouldings, doors and sash etc. If you want to see handles designed for long periods of planing, best to look to the 18th and very early 19th centuries.

[Pete Taran]

Warren,

If you say so. I collect old catalogs and have quite a collection. I also collect wooden planes made by Greenfield. Their catalog in the 1870s is the thickest and has the most models available of all the ones I have. Also seems the competitors like Sandusky have quite a few offerings in the 1877 catalog.

Further, considering that the type 1 Stanley Bench plane dates to 1867-1869, and metallic bench planes were the death knell for wooden planes of all types, is it not logical to suggest that the 1870s was the APEX of wooden plane use and sales?

I'm sure the folks that started Sandusky tool in 1869 would have appreciated knowing that the heyday for wooden bench planes would be over in 1 year considering that is the vast majority of what they made. Such a pity.

http://sanduskyhistory.blogspot.com/2015/02/sandusky-tool-company.html

[Graham Haydon]

Some great insight into the demands of early woodworkers, George. Although the handle in image 2 might not be the most appropriate, the execution of it is very special.

[William Fretwell]

Yes times have changed, my niece had severe carpel tunnel from texting with her thumbs. We spend our time sharpening bevel up blades instead of using the plane. My bow saw has no other option but palm grip. As a craftsman built the whole piece he would have a full range of different activities for some relief. I find planing takes by far the longest time on a piece, many hours and hours. It is a real workout.
None of todays activities come close to the activities of 1870. If we gain an appreciation of what they did we are the richer for it.

[Kees Heiden]

Warren,

If you say so. I collect old catalogs and have quite a collection. I also collect wooden planes made by Greenfield. Their catalog in the 1870s is the thickest and has the most models available of all the ones I have. Also seems the competitors like Sandusky have quite a few offerings in the 1877 catalog.

Further, considering that the type 1 Stanley Bench plane dates to 1867-1869, and metallic bench planes were the death knell for wooden planes of all types, is it not logical to suggest that the 1870s was the APEX of wooden plane use and sales?

I'm sure the folks that started Sandusky tool in 1869 would have appreciated knowing that the heyday for wooden bench planes would be over in 1 year considering that is the vast majority of what they made. Such a pity.

http://sanduskyhistory.blogspot.com/2015/02/sandusky-tool-company.html

This is kind of interesting, why did those companies only start around 1870? I can name several other ones. Nooitgedagt, Weiss, Ulmia, they all started "large" scale plane making around that time. Why?

I think the handplane was still as relevant as ever, way into the 20th century. Exponential rise of the population ment an increasingdemand for wooden structures. One building boom after the other. And the small electric motor was still far away.

And the industrial revolution made it possible to mechanise much of the plane making, just as it made possible to mechanise production of furniture. And I think that is why those new planemaking factories were coming up. They were taking over the trade from the smaller planemakers of the past. And they were succesfull, for a while.

I do think, how the users of handplanes worked, changed too. More dimensioned lumber became available, so less working from the rough all the way to the finished product. At the other hand, in the 18th century lumber was being sawn into more variations then today. No problem to get some 1/2" stock. But from the sawn plank on they had to do everything by hand, and they had to do it themselves. Later in the 19th century I imagine that you could get lumber that was at least skip planes on some big steam powered planer! But it would need some real historian to dig out some valid data on this point.

[Warren Mickley]

Later in the 19th century I imagine that you could get lumber that was at least skip planes on some big steam powered planer! But it would need some real historian to dig out some valid data on this point.

It doesn't take so much of a historian to figure out what was going on in the 1870's. There is loads of documentation. This machine planed three sides square and to dimension.

359686
Here is 1816:
359687

[Graham Haydon]

I think your point on a growing population and its demands is a good point, Kees. Many buildings I've worked on have material that seems likely to of been late Victorian. Most of it is very accurately machine sawn or rough power planed.
That change over to machine methods had a big influence on hand tool design for sure. It does not take long for lessons and skills learned to be lost quickly once a newer, faster and more economical way to mass produce comes into play.

[george wilson]

Actually,Warren's first post in this thread says the same thing I said about plane handles. The earlier ones were made with keeping the workers from getting carpal tunnel in mind.

Why were so many planes offered by 1870? There are many reasons. And,don't forget that EVERYTHING was offered in catalogs which were being published,and sent all over the country. The country was getting much more populated. Trains were now able to carry goods to men VERY VERY far away. You could now cross the country in a week,as compared to several months in earlier times.

The most regularily read book in our house,when I was a kid,was the Sears Roebuck catalog ! Full of things to dream about

Most people were farmers by the late 19th. C.. At least those living WAYYYYYYY out in the newly opened country. They needed some simple tools to build their houses,barns,and probably some simple furniture.

I could be going the wrong way with my theories here,but I am convinced that the advent of trains had a lot to do with the accessibility of goods that,years earlier,would have been nearly inaccessible. The rebuilding of the South might have entered into the need for more tools also.

You need to step back and think about what conditions were like by the 1870's compared to earlier times. Especially,realize that half the country was in ruins at that time,only 5 years since the Civil War.Today we live in luxury,and were free to build things we really don't need for the most part. We just build things we WANT to build. We don't have to worry about getting barns and out buildings built. Even the poorest among us have some kind of car,TV,and radio. Even a radio was a luxury in earlier times. A telephone was,too. We didn't have a TV until I was about 17 years old,but always had an old car and a radio.

[Pete Taran]

I don't disagree with anything that has been written, except Warren's notion that the Zenith of wooden planes didn't occur in the 1870s.

I think we are comparing apples to oranges here. Were there a lot of large, expensive cast iron machinery that planed and sawed logs into usable lumber? Yes indeed. I may be wrong, but the point of Stewart's exercise is to make a BENCH jointer. Unless an individual furniture or cabinet maker was fortunate enough to have said large, expensive water or steam powered cast iron machine in his shop, he used a wooden jointer just like the one Stewart is building. Wooden bench planes didn't loose popularity for many years, until Stanley had sufficiently convinced the public that their iron planes were superior. That process started in the late 1860s. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the vast historical record.

Stewart, how is that plane coming. Any update?

[Jim Koepke]

I think the handplane was still as relevant as ever, way into the 20th century. Exponential rise of the population ment an increasingdemand for wooden structures. One building boom after the other. And the small electric motor was still far away.


Most people were farmers by the late 19th. C.. At least those living WAYYYYYYY out in the newly opened country. They needed some simple tools to build their houses,barns,and probably some simple furniture.

The other important factor to consider is until Edison came along with the incandescent lamp, there wasn't any electrical service. Even after the development of electric lighting many areas didn't have electricity or other power systems to run 'modern' equipment.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

I don't think that a picture of a big Victorean planer is proof that nobody handplaned from rough to smooth anymore. I don't know how widespread the use of these machines was. I have read stories from London furniture shops from the early 20th century describing still a mostly handtool oriented approach, with at best a single sawing machine in the basement.

[Warren Mickley]

At least here in America, furniture in the late 19th century was almost all made in factories. When we actually look at stuff that survives from that time, it is machine work. Occasionally we see some crude pine piece with hand tooling, but much of that has factory made mouldings if not machined boards. Victorian? Machine work, machine made decorations, stamped designs, crude hand carving. "Arts and Crafts"? Machine work. Nothing at all like the skilful stuff done a century earlier. Indentured apprenticeships were outlawed; a master could not invest in heavily in training someone who could walk out the door any day and offer his skills to someone else.

[Kees Heiden]

Yes, so the interesting question is, what were all those post 1870 planes used for? And there were a lot of them! Carpentry work is probably by far the largest consumer of these things.

[steven c newman]

And, most of the ones I find have been well worn, from a LOT of use. Not warpped, worn.

After all, Carpenters built the houses, NOT some factory. And, you would like to HAVE a house BEFORE you buy the factory-made furniture.

I have 4 wood boodied planes, most were made and used well after the 1870 "Heyday" times.....Stanley #31? 1892.....Ohio Tool Co. #81? Stanley #28...1899? Ohio Tool co. # 035? Somewhere before 1920...

They weren't sitting on a shelf somewhere all those years, they were being used.

[Graham Haydon]

I wonder just how many planes a house carpenter would need once timber was purchased accurately sawn and things like skirting, architraves and door linings would be machine planed? I can't imagine they'd need long planes very often, perhaps a jack and smoother would be ample for most on site work of the late 19th century. Something to stick a rebate or a groove now and again could be hand. I know that in the early 20th century you could go to merchants and buy ready moulded sash section to be joined as required.

[Kees Heiden]

A long plane to fit doors and windows? There are loads of long, even very long (90cm), wooden planes available on our local "craigslist" overhere in Holland.

[steven c newman]

I live in a very old house....doors are 8' tall, the windows were 5', and taller. Baseboards were tall, wide, thick and long.

Another old house I lived in (1890) had 2" x 5" by 20' roughsawn Oak wall studs ( Balloon Framed) Handsaw to rip the jambs, Jointer planes to even the edges.

Unless one lived in a Hobbit Hole House, you needed them long planes as a Carpenter.

[Pat Barry]

It doesn't take so much of a historian to figure out what was going on in the 1870's. There is loads of documentation. This machine planed three sides square and to dimension.

359686
Here is 1816:
359687

The 1816 picture looks like Chinese woodworkers. What is the picture supposed to be depicting?

[Pete Taran]

At least here in America, furniture in the late 19th century was almost all made in factories. When we actually look at stuff that survives from that time, it is machine work. Occasionally we see some crude pine piece with hand tooling, but much of that has factory made mouldings if not machined boards. Victorian? Machine work, machine made decorations, stamped designs, crude hand carving. "Arts and Crafts"? Machine work. Nothing at all like the skilful stuff done a century earlier. Indentured apprenticeships were outlawed; a master could not invest in heavily in training someone who could walk out the door any day and offer his skills to someone else.

Warren, no one is disputing that planers and jointer came into use in the later parts of the 1870s. Planing and jointing wood saved a ton of time and allowed for the sale of nice furniture the masses could afford. However consider the following:

The use of machines for stock prep did not negate the need for hand planes of all types and sizes. I've been blessed to own and work on some very old vintage iron. Jointers and planers in that time period ran on line shafts or steam engine and had SQUARE cutting heads that had TWO, yes TWO knives. What do you get when you couple a slow moving cutter head with only two knives? A very rippled surface, one that had to be jointed before glue up or smoothed before being finished. As a result, planes were still very much in use.

You can believe machines magically replaced hand planes overnight despite the millions that were made during the time, or you can come to the conclusion that while power machines reduced some arduous tasks, hand planes were still required.

[Warren Mickley]

Warren, no one is disputing that planers and jointer came into use in the later parts of the 1870s.

Planers came into use in the 1870's? You might try doing some research. We usually consider 1840 as the transition time. Here is a Woodworth's patent drawing from 1828. Three knife cutterhead.
359722

[Mark Maleski]

Oof, no safety police back in those days then? :)

[steven c newman]

Nor here,it would seem......someone restores a tool to it's former glory....and all some can do is argue about why such planes existed, were used, or were needed.

Beautiful work...lost amongst the hijackers. Must have been a good market for those planes....I seem to stumble over them at every sale and shop. If there wasn't a market, nobody would have made them in those numbers.

So....the restore looks great....let the arguments continue, I'll go and pop the popcorn...

[Pat Barry]

Nor here,it would seem......someone restores a tool to it's former glory....and all some can do is argue about why such planes existed, were used, or were needed.

Beautiful work...lost amongst the hijackers. Must have been a good market for those planes....I seem to stumble over them at every sale and shop. If there wasn't a market, nobody would have made them in those numbers.

So....the restore looks great....let the arguments continue, I'll go and pop the popcorn...
What you talking about willis? Stewie'S OP is about a new build

[steven c newman]

And?
Rehab or recreate, still a very good plane...

[Kees Heiden]

Threads wander. Just like conversations in a pub, for example. If the forum would be only Ooh and Ahh, how Wunderfull, it would be incredably boring. I do like a friendly tone in those meandering threads though, something that is lacking occasionally.

[Adam Cruea]

You Aussies and your utility woods. . .

I'm jealous. While white oak and hickory are nice, Jarrah (which I believe that plane to be made from) is so beautiful.

[Graham Haydon]

I live in a very old house....doors are 8' tall, the windows were 5', and taller. Baseboards were tall, wide, thick and long.

Another old house I lived in (1890) had 2" x 5" by 20' roughsawn Oak wall studs ( Balloon Framed) Handsaw to rip the jambs, Jointer planes to even the edges.

Unless one lived in a Hobbit Hole House, you needed them long planes as a Carpenter.

Carpentry, defined in the early/mid 19th century by Peter Nicholson.

1. Carpentry in civil architecture, is the art of employing timber in the construction of buildings. The first operation of dividing a piece of timber into scantlings, or boards, by means of a pit saw, belongs to sawing and is previous to anything done in carpentry.

2. The tools employed by the carpenter are the ripping saw, a hand saw, and adze, a socket chisel, a firmer chisel, a ripping chisel, an auger, a gimlet, a hammer, a mallet, a pair of pincers, and sometimes planes, but as these are not necessarily used, they are described under the head of joinery, to which the are absolutely necessary.

This might go some way to describe why my points seem at odds with those of yourself and Kees. I would not see the need for anything longer than a jack plane, even in second fix carpentry.

I'll avoid posting again until we see more progress on this excellent project posted by Stewie.

[Kees Heiden]

If not for carpentry, then what were all those jointers used for then? I just had a quick look on "marktplaats.nl", on the first page of antique planes. In 90 ads, there are 12 wooden jointers and 4 metal ones. All of them are for sure post 1870. And that is just another typical day, nothing special. And they are often pretty much worn out with huge mouths and short irons.

[Pete Taran]

Kees,

PLEASE do not confuse this issue with facts and reasoned discourse. It's not welcome and conflicts directly with the offered pipe dream fairy tale. It only confuses people who enjoy listening to that sort of siren song. Shame on you!

[Kees Heiden]

I think the dissapearance of handplanes has been a very gradual process from 1800 to 1980 or so. In some countries more then in other. The enormous amount of post 1870 planes available on todays market, compared to the earlier ones is easilly explained for two reasons.
- It's not so long ago so more of them have survived.
- This curve shows the population of The Netherlands, other countries probably have similar curves. The number of people needing new homes, factories, furniture, and all those other wooden things, increased rapidly. So the number of craftsmen making all those things and needing planes to do that increased rapidly too. While increasingly more stuff was made on machines, that must have been a gradual process.

359751

So, even in 1930 you could still shoot a picture like this.
359752

Whether post 1870 planes were actually better then earlier ones, is quite another question.

[Pete Taran]

Kees,

Correlates perfectly with the demise of Sandusky tool, the largest wooden planemaker in the world in 1928. But again, please let's not confuse things with facts here.

[Graham Haydon]

They would be used mainly within the Joinery trade, where required. Some in the furniture workshops. Once machines became more normal, they might be used to give something a final truing if required. In vernacular settings the older methods would of lasted much longer, but even in North Devon, major furniture workshops were already heavily into machines by the 1880s.

This interesting book http://www.artscrafts.org.uk/branches/sandp/sandpbook.html goes into some detail about machines purchased from the 1850's onwards. If you like I can PM you the sections on the development of the factory, Kee's. This does not prove/disprove anything aside from my belief, real or imagined, that most of the lessons learned during the 18th and early 19th century were quickly on the wane once the industrial revolution kicked in and some tools, longer planes especially became less necessary.

12 long wooden planes and 4 metal! :D Loads! One thing that does survive well is #4's and #5's, in the UK at least. Metal jointers, not so much.

[steven c newman]

I seem to recall seeing photos of workmen at their benches, hand-planing parts for molds to make those machines. Nor, were they that far back in the past.....like about WW1 era?

Biggest part of these wooden planes was how much they weighed, compared to the iron bodied New-fangled planes. That Stanley #31 is roughly the same size as a Stanley #8, difference in the width of the cutter, and weighs in at half the weight of the iron plane. Sooo, which plane would YOU feel like lugging around all day, everyday?

You drop an iron plane on the floor, or it falls off the bench....it breaks, you can't continue the job. Wood bodied ones hit the floor, you pick them back up, re-adjust the settings, and go back to work....

[Jim Koepke]

My first #7 came from a retired cabinet maker. That was back in the mid-1990s.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Graham, I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding due to the language barier. We don't have a special name for " joiner". Carpenters an joiners are both "timmerman". So I understand that fitting doors, windows, panneling etc is a joiners job? Should have known that by now.

[Graham Haydon]

Your English is better than my dutch :). Yes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joiner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpentry

[Stewie Simpson]

The initial mortising out of the bed, wear angle, and secondary escarpment bevel have been completed. At this stage mortising out is contained within the outside abutment lines. The 3rd photo shows the dedicated block that will used to form the wedge abutments. The 4th photo shows some of the hand tool I am using. Chalking is used to fine tune flat surfacing work. Traditional plane maker floats are of limited value on this wooden plane build due to the higher janka rating of Australian Jarrah.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0099_zpsi0erjc9e.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0099_zpsi0erjc9e.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0100_zpswvb4jqxb.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0100_zpswvb4jqxb.jpg.html)]

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0098_zpsp26knp7r.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0098_zpsp26knp7r.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0095_zpsumtnson1.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0095_zpsumtnson1.jpg.html)

[Kees Heiden]

Comming along nicely. How is the Jarah to work with? Just hard or also brittle and splintery?

[Allan Speers]

I wonder just how many planes a house carpenter would need once timber was purchased accurately sawn and things like skirting, architraves and door linings would be machine planed? I can't imagine they'd need long planes very often, perhaps a jack and smoother would be ample for most on site work of the late 19th century. Something to stick a rebate or a groove now and again could be hand. I know that in the early 20th century you could go to merchants and buy ready moulded sash section to be joined as required.


Long planes excel at edge jointing. Building houses usually entails making lots of doors and windows. Even if they bought machine-cut linings and such, the wood would move a lot before the house was finished.

It seems a simple connection, to me.

[Stewie Simpson]

Kees; jarrah is a hard and dense timber that has a moderate blunting effect on hand tools. Its likely 2 fold in difficulty to hand mortise out compared to quality European Beech.

Australian Jarrah;1860 lbf
European Beech; 1450 lbf
American Beech; 1300 lbf

[Stewie Simpson]

Sharpening Planemakers Edge Floats;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0103_zpsyo6fpfhy.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0103_zpsyo6fpfhy.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0101_zpstrqh1obr.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0101_zpstrqh1obr.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0104_zps5xypc6rb.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0104_zps5xypc6rb.jpg.html)

[Adam Cruea]

Oooo, look. . .Stewie and Derek with their Jarrah planes. :D

That is one huge, good lookin' monstrosity. Amazing that stuff is hard enough you need to sharpen your floats.

[george wilson]

Adam,that is an old heavy duty vise for a metal milling machine. Machinists would just say milling machine. But,I am not sure if everyone would know that the machine I refer to is for metal milling.

[Stewie Simpson]

The fitting of the wooden wedge within its abutments has been completed.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0105_zpsevvafdbt.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0105_zpsevvafdbt.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0106_zpspwgyjqvz.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0106_zpspwgyjqvz.jpg.html)

[William Fretwell]

I did think the wedge would go further down. What's next? The opening for the shaving? You have kept a good thickness of wood on the sides. Will follow your first shavings with interest!

[Stewie Simpson]

William; the tine ends of the wooden wedge extend all the way down to the commencement of the cap irons front curvature. Mortising out to receive the rear tote is next on tomorrow's to do list.

[Stewie Simpson]

The front of the mouth opening and wear angle have both been squared up. The sole of plane has been dressed back to flat with the double iron in tension. (Little change noted in flatness). The sides and top have been cleaned up to remove all the lay-out markings. The mortise housing for the rear tote has been completed and the hide glued in position. The glue will be left to harden overnight. Both ends of the planes stock still need to be cleaned up with a block plane, then its onto forming the profile bevels.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0107_zpsg0xfqknq.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0107_zpsg0xfqknq.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0108_zpsntvjxz6a.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0108_zpsntvjxz6a.jpg.html)

[Graham Haydon]

Looking great!

[george wilson]

Not going to add the bevels around the top edges, and front and rear? They can add a great deal of charm to a plane if done right. I prefer the bold ones used in the 18th. C. myself. The worst ones were the final, barely rounded edges used in the 19th. C..

The same jack plane I showed before has 18th C. BOLD bevels. These bevels terminate in nice,clean, gouge cuts. If you are experienced,they can be done in one cut! Snick,snick,nick. The plane is sitting on a pair of Appalachian red spruce guitar top blanks. This is what the old time,sought after Martin and Gibson guitars used. Now nearly unavailable unless you own land where there are some spruce trees. Deer eat the young buds, causing no more trees to grow.
The existing trees are protected.

[Stewie Simpson]

Not going to add the bevels around the top edges, and front and rear? They can add a great deal of charm to a plane if done right. I prefer the bold ones used in the 18th. C. myself. The worst ones were the final, barely rounded edges used in the 19th. C..

The same jack plane I showed before has 18th C. BOLD bevels. These bevels terminate in nice,clean, gouge cuts. If you are experienced,they can be done in one cut! Snick,snick,nick. The plane is sitting on a pair of Appalachian red spruce guitar top blanks. This is what the old time,sought after Martin and Gibson guitars used. Now nearly unavailable unless you own land where there are some spruce trees. Deer eat the young buds, causing no more trees to grow.
The existing trees are protected.

Both ends of the planes stock still need to be cleaned up with a block plane, then its onto forming the profile bevels.

George; after the end grains on the stock have been cleaned up, its onto forming the profile bevels. This plane design is based on the French style of plane making. Narrower escarpment side walls, and less width in the size of the bevels that run across the top and ends the stock (rounded profile), and no eyes carved into the cheek side walls.

[Stewie Simpson]

All that's left to do is give the cutting iron a final sharpen. Then its onto making some curly shavings.

Stewie;


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0110_zpscmmfvhsd.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0110_zpscmmfvhsd.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0111_zpswrgxu4yl.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0111_zpswrgxu4yl.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0112_zpsxny03x87.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0112_zpsxny03x87.jpg.html)

[steven c newman]

Looks GREAT!

[Stewie Simpson]

Appreciate the feedback Steve.

[Mike Baker 2]

That is a beautiful plane. Nice work.
I have a vintage store near me that has several old wooden planes for what I think are good prices. I have examined them, and most are in good working condition, so far as I can tell.
How often do you need to re flatten the sole of a wooden plane? And is there any other type of fettling or set up that needs to be redone on occasion?
Thanks, and not meaning to derail this thread with my questions, btw.

[Stewie Simpson]

Mike; you should find the following thread of some value to your questions.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?251204-Refurbishing-an-early-wooden-Jack-Plane

[george wilson]

Glad to see those bevels! But,you know,well carved eyes are so attractive,and also make it easier to dig out clogged shavings that sometimes happen.

[Graham Haydon]

Look forward to seeing some shaving flow from it.

[Mike Baker 2]

Mike; you should find the following thread of some value to your questions.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?251204-Refurbishing-an-early-wooden-Jack-Plane


Thanks, Stewie!

[Stewie Simpson]

Look forward to seeing some shaving flow from it.

As requested Graham.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0114_zps9avndbc2.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0114_zps9avndbc2.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0113_zpsakxspjpb.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0113_zpsakxspjpb.jpg.html)

[steven c newman]

Don't ya just love it when the shavings shoot straight up..then curl around your wrist.....looks good from my house..

[Kees Heiden]

Nice work Stewie! The handle is really something special.

Love that pile of shavings ;-)

[Stewie Simpson]

Appreciate the feedback Steven and Kees. For those of you that have never used a well tuned traditional wedge abutment bench plane, your missing an opportunity to expand your knowledge base.

[Michael Todrin]

Looks amazing Stewie. Chapeau!

[Mike Baker 2]

As requested Graham.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0114_zps9avndbc2.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0114_zps9avndbc2.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0113_zpsakxspjpb.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0113_zpsakxspjpb.jpg.html)

Loverly. That right there is always fun.

[William Fretwell]

So you did not use the chip breaker? Hard to tell from the pictures.

[Stewie Simpson]

William; the cap iron (correct terminology) was in service.

[William Fretwell]

Yes I see the back nut in one of the pictures now.

[Stewie Simpson]

Planemakers Edge Floats are used when forming the wedge abutments on traditional wooden bodied bench planes. The common recommendation is to sharpened them to a rip tooth profile. Unless braced against the bed of the plane, they can be rather difficult to control their direction of cut.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0104_zps5xypc6rb.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0104_zps5xypc6rb.jpg.html)

As an experiment, I filed the side float teeth at a 10 degree fleam crosscut profile.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0116_zpss6hylswn.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0116_zpss6hylswn.jpg.html)

As you can see from the following test cuts, directional control was greatly improved by the change in tooth profile.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0117_zpstc3qawmm.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0117_zpstc3qawmm.jpg.html)

I would not recommend you attempt a change to the traditional tooth profile on Bed and Side Floats.
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/planemakers-floats/1-fb-1-8-bed-floats?node=4098
https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/planemakers-floats/1-fs-t-side-floats?node=4098

[David Eisenhauer]

Good stuff Stewie.

[Graham Haydon]

Thanks for the photo! How does it feel compared to the Trying plane you recently restored?

[Stewie Simpson]

Graham; I will start by comparing stats on each plane

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0118_zpsb4i627en.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0118_zpsb4i627en.jpg.html)

TRY PLANE
Total Weight; 2.915 kg
Weight of double iron; 500g (2 1/2")
Stock dimensions; 22"L x 3 3/8"W x 3"H.
Stock; European Beech (qtr sawn)
Rear Tote; 4 finger entry.
Bed Angle; 47*.

JOINTER PLANE
Total Weight; 2.450kg.
Weight of double iron; 325g (1 13/16")
Stock dimensions; 28"L x 2 3/8"W x 2 1/4"H.
Stock; Australian Jarrah (Rift Sawn)
Rear Tote; 3 finger entry.
Bed; 52*.

While both types of wooden bench planes do serve their function extremely well, it is within the area of comfort and control that the Jointer Plane is a clear stand out. imo most of that can be attributed to the benefits that a 3 finger rear tote has over a 4 finger entry. The lower centre of gravity an additional factor. When comparing the difference in force between the 2 planes, the higher bed angle of the Jointer Plane has been offset by the decision to fit a narrower width double iron. The merits on visual design will be left for others to comment on.

Stewie;

[Jerry Olexa]

Very nice work Stewie!!!!

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks Jerry.

[Graham Haydon]

Thanks for the info!

[Paul Bent]

Thanks for sharing Stewie! Is the strike button to drive the body away from the bedded iron along that angle in order to loosen the iron? And just tap the iron to increase cutting depth?

[William Fretwell]

Cap iron is an unfortunate name when it's true purpose is to put back pressure on the shaving to reduce tear out of the surface. It could explain why they so rarely used properly!

[Stewie Simpson]

Thanks for sharing Stewie! Is the strike button to drive the body away from the bedded iron along that angle in order to loosen the iron? And just tap the iron to increase cutting depth?

Paul; to release the wedge on a wooden bodied plane you have the option of striking the heel of the plane or the forward strike button if its provided. But not all wooden planes are fitted with strike buttons. The following demonstrates the adjustments that can be achieved on a wooden bodied plane when you don't limit yourself to 1 dedicated strike area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xONOHX0BrNY

Stewie;

[Stewie Simpson]

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0120_zpsvnf4h2l6.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/wooden%20jointer%20build/_DSC0120_zpsvnf4h2l6.jpg.html)