Endgrain cutting, too little to saw, too much to plane?

[Kees Heiden]

How would you remove a few mm from the top of, say, a table leg, or in my case one of the styles of the cabinet I am working on? I should have let them be longer, but I am now faced with four substantial pieces of cherry timber that are just a few mm too long. Sawing is probably not going to work, not enough material. But planing is still going to be a lot of work, this being endgrain.

Looking forward to see some very good ideas from the forum!

359502

[Nicholas Lawrence]

For small adjustments like that I use my miterbox. It is capable of very fine, accurate cuts. Are these too big for a miterbox?

[David Dalzell]

How about treating it like chopping out a dovetail? Scribe around the sides and chop with a chisel.

[James Pallas]

Clamp a scrap to the front and back longer then the piece. Saw thru the scraps and the work. Or Use a mitre box with the work up against a block clamped to the mitre box fence that covers the whole end of the work.
Jim

[Phil Mueller]

I would probably use a Japanese pull saw and follow up with block plane and/or rasp/file.

[Warren Mickley]

I think you can saw it, Kees. You can use a somewhat more dainty saw than you would use if there were more waste and take your time. Because this surface is not to be seen, you can saw right to the line, not having to leave extra for clean up.

There are two reasons I like to leave more waste on ends like this. One is that you don't have to worry about the mortise breaking out the end while chopping. The other is that a substantial waste there helps in getting the joint apart after a trial assembly.

[george wilson]

If no miter box or miter trimmer(Lion type) is available, you could just scribe all the way around where the board needs to be shortened to. Then, chisel or BETTER YET, block plane a bevel down to that line. This gives you something all the way around to look at while you plane the end of the board down to the bottom of the bevel. It also keeps the wood from splintering. It helps keep you from getting the board too short too. Provided, of course, that your bevel cutting was done very accurately.

I have done this myself at times in the 18th. C. shop, where I had no guillotine type trimmer (The Lion type I mentioned).

Those Lion type trimmers are now made in Taiwan, and though I have a real one, bought for only $35.00 at a flea market in the 70's, the Taiwan made one seems just as good. Being a tool hog,I have both. I can vouch for the Asian made one. Being mostly a guitar maker,I only occasionally need the trimmers. Actually,I recall that my Lion type was missing the handle.so I bought the other one to get the handle, and found the Asian trimmer suitable in all respects. And, the handle fit the Lion perfectly.(Both are just CAST iron). Keep those blades sharp, and they will work so well, it is amazing!!!:) I used the Asian one to finish trimming all of the quarter round baseboard trim which was missing in this entire house. I wanted no dust, so cut the trim with a miter box and trimmed it with the Asian trimmer. The power chop saw stayed in the shop! Besides, I felt more secure in my guesses as to length with the hand tools only. You might well not believe it, but after doing a couple of rooms, AND closets,I got to where I did not have to measure the moldings. Just accurately cut them by eye. I have no idea how I was able to do that, but I did. Just too much trouble trying to use a tape measure in a crowded closet.

[Derek Cohen]

I would saw from the fat side - either a Western carcase saw or a Japanese Kataba - then chisel a bevel from each line, creating a flat pyramid. Finish with a block plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Kees Heiden]

Thanks a lot guys. That's way more ideas then I could think up!

This one has the most waste. The other 3 are shallower. So for this one I can try with a fine saw (no miter box in the shop). And the ones with less waste I can try the bevelling with a chisel first and then a sharp plane.

Next time I should leave more waste for all the reasons mentioned!

[David Eisenhauer]

I just had to deal with the same issue and was not having much luck with planning the end grain, even after re sharpening two different low angle types. I then tried out a rasp and had good luck with the rasp getting me close to the line, after which I went to paring to final dimensions with a chisel. Typically, I am able to plane end grain, especially with a re sharpening, but not this time. My amount to remove was not as great as in the photo you show however.

[andy bessette]

Cut right to the line with a Japanese saw.

[Pat Barry]

Cut right to the line with a Japanese saw.
You could just as well cut right to the line with a non Japanese saw, right?

[andy bessette]

"You could just as well cut right to the line with a non Japanese saw, right?"

No. None that I've ever used. But I can cut a compound angle, right to the line, using my Japanese razor saw, a few mm from the end of the stock.

[Pat Barry]

"You could just as well cut right to the line with a non Japanese saw, right?"

No. None that I've ever used. But I can cut a compound angle, right to the line, using my Japanese razor saw, a few mm from the end of the stock.
I've got a little razor saw also that is nice for detail work because of its super thin blade but the depth of cut Kees' needs is way beyond what my saw can handle. On the other hand, I'm pretty confident my Veritas dovetail saw could get the job done. My japanese crosscut saw has a pretty flimsy blade and gives me fits with cuts like this.

[Reinis Kanders]

Could clamp a reference block and then saw it while lightly holding and pushing down another wooden block on a top of the saw. Sort of like sawing a dado with a batten.

[Leo Graywacz]

No belt sander? Maybe a sanding block with some 40 grit. The thin kerf saw has potential.

[andy bessette]

The Japanese razor saw I mentioned is the bottom-most in this photo. It is my daily use saw and would easily do the job described. The blades are replaceable.

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i414/yo-andrew/Japanese-saws-1_zpst4stehuu.jpg

[Kees Heiden]

It seems my shop is sorely lacking many things! No miter box, no Japanese saws, no stationary belt sander...

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I don't think you need to chuck your western saws or buy a belt sander. But a well tuned miter box is a very useful thing.

[Kees Heiden]

I had one, a nice Ulmia, but I never used it and it's a rather large thing in a small shop. So I sold it.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Mine is a no name (that I have ever found anyway) Acme/Langdon style. When I am done with it the saw just goes in the till, and the box itself goes on the shelf. To use it I just pull it out and clamp to the bench, insert the saw, and make a quick test cut to be sure everything is still aligned properly. Nothing ever seems to get knocked out, but you know the one time you don't check will be the time it is off!

The newer ones I have seen seem to have the saw more permanently mounted, and I could see how that would be awkward to store. Mine has a hole in the saw, for a pin to prevent you from pulling the saw too far back out of the guides, but I never use the pin, and that makes it a lot easier to store.

[Adam Cruea]

I'd either use chisels or a saw to remove a lot of that, then use my #51 and shooting board to get rid of the excess.

[Doug Hepler]

In the hand tool world, this is what shooting boards were invented to do. Before I knew that, I would have used a table saw as follows:

You put the work piece against the plate. Clamp it to the miter guide if need be. Slide it by the running saw blade. That will remove an amount of wood equal to 1/2 of the saw set. Repeat

Doug

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[Jim Koepke]

In the hand tool world, this is what shooting boards were invented to do. Before I knew that, I would have used a table saw as follows:

You put the work piece against the plate. Clamp it to the miter guide if need be. Slide it by the running saw blade. That will remove an amount of wood equal to 1/2 of the saw set. Repeat

Doug

.

Aha! The electric shooting saw.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

In Texas, if we need a pull saw, we just go to Home Depot or Lowes and get one. I'm curious, how do you buy your tools in the Netherlands?:)

[Kees Heiden]

Well, that wasn't too bad. I used my crosscutting backsaw, A Leapfrog Spear and Jackson. Nothing special, just expertly sharpened! (by yours truely, of course :p)

A little clean up with a blockplane, and they are now all the required length.

359763

So, I don't need no stinking tablesaw, Japanese saw, LN #51 plane, stationary beltsander, miterbox ;)

[Doug Hepler]

But you still need a shooting board!:)

Doug

[Kees Heiden]

Don't worry, I've got one. But these styles are really too thick for the shooting board. I regard that as a tool for much thinner stock.

[Jim Koepke]

Don't worry, I've got one. But these styles are really too thick for the shooting board. I regard that as a tool for much thinner stock.

With stock thicker than the plane it can be done by cutting a pyramid on a shooting board and then worked by rotating the piece. Here was my way to do it with a narrow leg:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?244777-Oh-Shoot!

Instead of angling the work horizontally it could be tilted on the vertical axis.

Sawing and a block plane was likely easier.

jtk

[Jim Belair]

Clamp a scrap to the front and back longer then the piece. Saw thru the scraps and the work......

Jim

I like this idea as it gives good support for the saw.