Has anyone tried this method with your DC?

[Skip Camejo]

I've got a 2hp Grizzly DC in my shop (20' X 24') I've invested in a Wynn filter for it and built a Thien separator that mounts on top of a trash can. Even with that setup I'm still getting very fine dust in the shop. I've already been to the ER twice before I figured out that I'm highly allergic to spalted maple so I want to try to eliminate as much dust as possible from the atmosphere of my shop. I should note that I have a Jet air cleaner mounted to the ceiling that I run whenever I'm working in the shop.

I'm going to be moving to another state in a few months and I'll be building a new shop there. The shop will be in a detached 4 car garage sized building with the shop taking up half the building. I've been brainstorming and came up with an idea for my DC system. I'll run the ductwork to the Thien separator then the to the DC. I'm thinking of building a box around the Grizzly DC unit with the end wall of the box set up to mount several (4?) high efficiency disposable furnace filters on it. The box would be inside the shop area. I'm thinking that the box will contain the fine dust while the filters will allow the air to flow back into the shop.....hopefully dust free. I'll just need to clean out the box every once in a while. I thought of setting everything up to vent the DC outside but I'm moving to New Hampshire where I'll really need to keep the heat in the shop in the winter.

Does this sound like a feasible solution or am I not thinking of something that would prevent this setup from working?

[Paul Stoops]

One thing you should seriously consider is replacing your 2 HP Grizzly/ Thien Baffle DC setup with a real, high capacity cyclone, such as one of the Clearvue or Oneida models. The Thien Baffle (I have one on my 3HP DC system) does not do a very efficient job of separating out the extremely fine dust particles, which may be the ones that are seriously contributing to your health problems. Consider the additional monetary investment in a cyclone DC system as an investment in your long term health. Also, since the Thien Baffle does a poor job of separating out fine dust, your Wynn filter will clog very quickly, especially if you are using a drum sander or similar.

Paul in Auburn, WA

[Andy Giddings]

If you're still getting fine dust with a Wynn filter I would suspect a leak somewhere. I know when I had mine with a Baffle and then a Dust Deputy there was almost zero fine dust emitted by the DC system. Have you checked the current system with a smudge stick or similar for leaks?

I don't see that your high efficiency furnace filters are going to stop the really fine dust getting back into the system unless they've got a better rating than the Wynn.

Paul's comment about the separation efficiency of the Baffle compared to a cyclone is well made, but a clogged filter should emit even less dust due to loading of the media, hence the need to check for leaks.

[Charles Lent]

If you are that sensitive, you should vent your dust collector to the outside of your shop instead of trying to filter it further. The heat/coolng loss will be easier to deal with than trying to get mold spores out of the air by filtration.

Charley

[Larry Frank]

As already mentioned, I would upgrade your DC to a bigger unit.

You probably need to critically look at each tool. Dust collection at the drill press, router table and sander are not real good. I bought a Festool sander and extractor mainly because of the dust collar. Yes, they are expensive but less than a visit to the ER. The other thing to look at is your clothes and change them when leaving the shop.

[Josh Kocher]

I'd agree with everything said here.

-venting outside***
-more capable collector
-evaluate pickup's at the machines
ie. do you have over table collection on tablesaw? adequate airflow at machines?

Also, what's the filtration on your air cleaner? Most are not submicron and only serve to continuously circulate the finest dust for you to breath... Consider evaluating how you use that.

[terry mccammon]

Very strongly suggest that you consider one of the PAPR units (Powered Air Purifying Respirator). Several vendors have them, 3M makes them for industrial use and they are excellent. Such units are pricey and so is your health. I would guess that one unit is cheaper than two trips to the ER. I got one years ago and have never had an issue.

[Skip Camejo]

Thanks all. I do use a 3M respirator when sanding just to be safe. I guess it's back to the drawing board! I'll have to budget an upgrade to my DC system for the new shop.

[Bill Space]

It seems to me there are two issues at play.

The first is that your dust collector will not capture all of the particles that are generated at the point of contact between the tool you are using and the work. So you need an effective respirator regardless of what you decide to do with respect to improving Your dust collection system.

The second is that it seems more likely that NOT needing to filter air will provide a better end result than doing your best to filter air and return it to your shop. Dumping dust collector air outside one wall of your shop, and bringing make up air into the shop from the other side may provide the ultimate clean air experience, unless you also suffer from algeries to pollen perhaps...😕

I currently have a Grizzly 2HP dust collector with a "chip collector" in front of it that works great. It is on my wife's side of the basement and she has never complained about dust. And I have not noticed any either. But it may be there. If I had health issues I would build a box around the grizzly unit and dump the exhaust air outside. No question in my mind that eliminating particulate carrying air is a more effective solution than trying to filter it.

I would probably install a gate that would allow me to keep heated air in the basement during winter, if I was working with something that was not a health concern.

Bill

[Steve Reich]

Good advice here. Just remember that if you decide to vent outside, don't do it if you have gas appliances (furnace, water heater, etc.) in the shop. I don't pretend to know the science of it, but I've read a lot of warnings on that issue (including older Sawmill Creek threads). I briefly looked into it, but stopped as I have those two appliances and gas lines in my basement shop.

[Jim Andrew]

I made a 8" blast gate so I can vent outside when I want, and just close the gate to run all the air through the filter when it is very cold outside.

[Prashun Patel]

Given your sensitivity, I would just (budget allowing) go for a proper, larger cyclone.

[Tom Bender]

You can make really nice things from other kinds of wood.

Wear a respirator, not just a dust mask.

Vacuum the shop

Wear a paper suit in the shop and step outdoors to take it off.

lots of ways to stay out of the ER. Of course if you had to pay the hospital bill you would find the right answers quick.

[Jim Dwight]

I also suspect you have leakage and a dirty filter. I used a Wynn filter on my old Delta 1 hp DC and it worked very well. But I used aluminum tape on the joints in the pipe and caulked the connection to the filter. It took effort to eliminate leaks. But with a 1hp DC it didn't do much if I didn't eliminate the leaks. I also clogged the filter quickly despite use of a thien baffle.

In my new shop, I just use a shop vac but it has a dust deputy which makes a big difference in how quickly the filter clogs. It's fairly easy to find youtubes of people upgrading the HF DC. It can apparently support a bigger impeller too. It is never going to be a 3hp DC but I think it can function effectively in a one person shop. But it does worry me that you are sensitive to at least one type of wood. That puts you into needing the large airflows that Bill Pentz recommends. He is sensitive too. That may mean a 5 hp DC. I would look at his information. If it is only the maple, maybe a soupped up HF and a really good dust mask when working with the spalted maple. You should be able to keep the dust out of your nose with a good respirator/mask. One of the powered units may be indicated. They aren't inexpensive but are cheaper than 5hp DCs.

[Skip Camejo]

Thanks for all the input. I'm definitely going to rethink the whole setup. I like the idea of venting to the outside so I'll probably go that route. I'm using a Hot Dawg brand shop heater in my current shop and will probably do the same in the new shop. The do make one that uses outside air for combustion so I shouldn't have to worry about the DC pulling in exhaust fumes...but I will verify that first.

[Charles Lent]

Skip,

Where are you located? I'm in Central North Carolina and use a heat pump to both heat and cool my shop. I chose this because it does both and because there is no fire involved. Fine sawdust and fire do not play well together. I get both heating and cooling from one unit without any fire, and the efficiency of the unit is very good. I installed a high quality filter on the air return and it does a fair job of keeping my shop air clean too. If you live in an area where heat pumps will work well for you, consider getting one for your new shop.

Charley

[Skip Camejo]

Charley - Northern New England. From what I understand heat pumps won't work below freezing and other than the 4th of July, that's pretty much the rest of the year up there!!! :)

[Deb Clarkson]

Air to air heat pumps move a large volume of barely heated air and would be likely to keep the dust airborn, where you'd be breathing it. If you have the option of putting a boiler in a separate room to provide heat in the floor of your shop you can be very comfortable working at a lower thermostat setting. If you have a nice warm floor you could vent outside with less discomfort from the cold air that has to come in to replace the outgoing air. Maybe you could put a duct to bring in the replacement air as close as possible to the tool you're collecting from so you'd be mainly throwing out unheated air.

[Charles Lent]

Skip,

I agree. A heat pump is not a good choice for you, but venting the DC outside is still my best recommendation for your problem. They actually loose efficiency below about 40 degrees and electric resistance heating or a gas fired unit makes up the difference here. I came from upstate NY and -30 deg was possible there, Every Winter involved quite a few very cold days well below zero, so Deb's suggestion is likely the best way to go for you. I would likely have done that in my own shop if I was still in NY. Make an antifreeze/water mix for the pipes to keep them from freezing if the heat should ever go off when you aren't there. Before moving South, my shop was in my basement. When I moved here I made it a point to not have a basement in the house and I put up a detached building for my shop. The shop noise and saw dust pollution of the house were my main reasons for separating them. In the NY house I spent a lot of money trying to keep the shop noise and saw dust from getting upstairs. I managed to reduce both, but could not eliminate it.

Charley

[Chris Padilla]

Put your entire DC system outside your shop in a small shed or put it into its own closet. The idea is to keep you and the point of collection as isolated as possible. This will also help with noise pollution.

Next, put at least 6" pipe everywhere and modify ports on your equipment to handle it. The idea here is the gather as much dust right at the source as possible. Build hoods and shrouds and such. Grab that dust as soon as it is made.

Keep us abreast as to your shop progress. We LOVE seeing shop builds!! :)

[Brice Rogers]

One area where there was little focus in terms of your post and subsequent comments is on how you are collecting the dust - - that is, the suction end. It may very well be that you are missing some of that fine dust and it just floats off and settles somewhere. Also, I don't recall you mentioning which tools you primarily use and the vacuum fittings that you are using on those tools. I suspect that DC on some tools is easy and on others a bit more difficult.

I have a wood lathe and a DC system. When I'm roughing, the DC system is close to worthless. The chips are propelled 5 plus feet away and in most every direction. When sanding, it works well but I suspect that it may collect 95 percent of the dust. That still leaves a source of dust floating around. I live in a climate where I can use a ceiling mounted whole-house fan to exhaust the area.

BTW, I use a thien baffle and exhaust outside. Because of your climate, I'd suggest that you set up your DC to vent outside when the weather is warmer and, when you are generating dust in the winter, perhaps vent inside through your 0.5 micron filter AND wear a respirator.

BTW2: I made an air cleaner (box fan and two 20x20" filters). I can't numerically state its effectiveness but I periodically need to take it outside and blow off the dust (of which there can be quite a bit). There are some youtube videos on making your own air cleaner (e.g., mathias wendell, etc.)

[Larry Edgerton]

I vented mine outside when I got tired of the dust and emptying the collector. I'm above the 45th parallel. Difference in heat bills in the winter is about $20 bucks a month in the winter. In the spring I clean it up with the tractor.

For me in my location it is a winner.

I use a Modine box heater and filter my combustion intake air. This summer I am going to build a huge filter to draw through for the fan side to turn it into a air cleaner. Plan on six 20x25x4" industrial filters.

[Mike Chalmers]

Charley - Northern New England. From what I understand heat pumps won't work below freezing and other than the 4th of July, that's pretty much the rest of the year up there!!! :)I would suggest that more researching is needed. While efficiency goes down somewhat, they certainly do work when the outside air is below freezing. Check out this site.
https://www.sunshinerenewables.ca/how-does-the-outdoor-temperature-affect-the-performance-of-my-heat-pump/

[Roy Harding]

I live in northern Canada (I can see Alaska from here). My two-stage, 3 HP DC is vented outside.

When running the DC for a long time, there is a noticeable drop in temperature in the shop. My shop (1200 sq ft - 10' ceilings, floor raised 6" off the slab and insulated) is heated with a propane furnace. I also installed three small electric infrared heaters (the 1500W type you can get at any hardware store). I placed the heaters on the ceiling, pointing at my larger cast iron machines - this heats the machines, causing them to radiate heat whenever the IR heaters have been on for a while.

It works well. If I'm running the DC for hours at a time, the shop can get cool - but for normal 15 - 20 minute "bursts" throughout the day, the fluctuation is not enough to discomfort me. The IR heaters are hooked into the lighting circuit, so they're only on when I'm in the shop. The propane furnace is controlled by a thermostat - if I know that I'll be running the DC for more than 30 minutes or so, I'll shut it off rather than burning propane to no effect. The heated cast iron brings the temperature back up quickly after the DC is shut off.

It works for me - no guarantee that it'll be suitable for you.