What good are biscuits?

[Greg Urwiller]

I've started to build the Limbert style coffe table in the Feb. 2016 issue of Fine Woodworking. The plans call for the end panels to be glued up using buiscuts for alignment. I bought a biscuit joiner years ago and have only used it a couple of times. I thought this was the most worthless way of alignment ever! Did I get a bad cutter? Undersized biscuits? Nothing I've ever tried has aligned anything. The biscuits were always loose enough that I had to align all the edges. I was really surprised that anyone would use biscuits on anything (fine furniture?) anymore. What am I missing about biscuits? Thanks. Greg

[Mike Henderson]

My opinion is that most woodworkers discovered the same thing. Like you, I bought a plate joiner long ago and only used it a couple of times. For aligning panel glue-ups, I use cauls which work well.

I occasionally use the little ff biscuits for extra strength in miter joints when I make boxes, but that's about it. And I cut the grooves for those with a slot cutter on my router table.

I should sell my plate joiner but I never get around to it.

Mike

[glenn bradley]

Bought one because "you had to hae one, right?". Sold it about 6 months later. There are folks who swear by them but, they do not add any value to offset the bother for me. YMMV.

[Von Bickley]

I haven't used mine in years. Should sell it but I never get rid of any tools. I worked too hard to get what few tools I have. When I get a new tool, I keep it. I'll let my son decide what to do with my tools when I'm not around.

[Ted Reischl]

Ah yes, woodworking magazines and must have equipment to build their projects. Uh huh. Anyone surprised by that?

LOOK! LOOK! You need to advertise with us, we are doing a project article that FEATURES biscuits! You don't want to miss out! Just think of all the sales you will get! Not to mention our ad $$$$.

What DOES work for aligning? A router with a slot cutter. You do not have to rout the entire edge yanno. Then you make the splines that actually fit the groove. What a concept. Sounds like biscuits, but actually works. Do NOT do this on a router table. You want the router to register off the face of the workpiece.

Myself? I rarely bother with these techniques anymore.

I think most people have problem with biscuits because they do not get enough glue in the slot. The biscuits are compressed and will expand from the moisture in the glue. But, if you are like me, you put the glue on and before anything can expand and align the surface I start clamping, so much for the biscuit being able to swell up and move anything. Probably works best with a slow drying glue.

[lowell holmes]

Biscuits are used for aligning the boards in a glue up. They add nothing to the strength. They are good to use on able top glue ups.

They add no strength. You need splines to add strength.

[Wade Lippman]

Some biscuits are compressed, but most are not. Well, at least they weren't 10 years ago when I last used one. I agree they aren't worthwhile and sold mine. The every once in a while I need something for alignment, I use a domino.

But when I did use them, I found they fit snuggly. I suspect the OP's cutter is not very good.

They do add strength. Make two joints. On one glue only the biscuits; on the other glue only the edges. Both are adequately strong. It is inescapable that gluing both will be stronger than gluing either. Now.... the added strength is not a significant benefit as gluing only the edges is adequate; but it is stronger.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Many years ago I purchased a Lamello Top 20 to use for two projects. At the time as part of a package deal it came with a box of 1000 assorted biscuits of their three different sizes. It's a great machine and I still use it frequently. I think biscuits do add strength to an edge to edge joint and find the alignment to be very precise. It's important to use a water-based glue so the biscuits soak it up and expand within the cutout.

[Cary Falk]

Biscuits were created for joining plywood for the cabinet industry if I recall correctly. Glue 2 edges of plywood together edge to edge or make a corner joint(90 degree). Of course it adds strength. You wouldn't build a wall cabinet and just rely on glue only for a shelf. If a biscuit doesn't add strength then neither does a spline because that is what they are, a mini spline. Are they as strong as a mortise and tenon, no. Nobody claimed they were. You are not going to build chairs with them. They also work great for reinforcing picture frame mitered corners. The work great for alignment when you are trying to glue up hollow posts with mitered sides. It is like any other tool. It has its uses. Maybe you don't build anything that it would be useful for but that doesn't mean it is a useless tool just useless to you. As with anything, there are many ways to skin a cat.

[Mike Cutler]

There is something wrong with your plate jointer.
I am not a fan of biscuits by any stretch, but I do own one, and when I do large panel glue ups, it is helpful. For a one person operation it can aid in aligning an edge glue up. I use them with cauls.
Their true purpose is to joint plywood together, whether edge to edge, or edge to face. Their use in making furniture is very limited.

Check your setup. The biscuit should fit fairly snug when dry.

[Chris Padilla]

Sort your biscuits ahead of time. Test fit each one and you'll soon have 3 piles: loose, tight, Goldilocks (jeeeeeessssstttt right). If they are all loose, they might be very very old and very very dried out. You could possibly swell them again if you cared. If too fat, a vise can compress them. Some brands of biscuits are better than others.

Since getting my Domino, I rarely used biscuits anymore but I do like the small FF ones for certain (picture) frames I build here and there. In that case, I think they add quite a bit of strength in non-hardwood to non-hardwood situations (MDF to plywood, plywood to plywood, MDF to MDF, etc.). In hardwood to hardwood, edge gluing is quite strong without the biscuits but they can help alignment or just as easily misalign things if you aren't careful. Biscuits, due to their largish surface area, can swell the wood around it and if you sand that edge too soon before the glue-up has rebalanced in terms of moisture, you made end up with depressions.

Biscuits, like any tool, have their place here and there. I'll hold onto mine...it isn't taking up that much room in the shop. :)

[Jim Andrew]

I use my plate joiner to align and strengthen the feet on my projects, in the case of miters. Saw an episode of woodsmith, I think where they were making a rabbet miter, and a biscuit joiner would have made the job much easier.

[Larry Edgerton]

Many years ago I purchased a Lamello Top 20 to use for two projects. At the time as part of a package deal it came with a box of 1000 assorted biscuits of their three different sizes. It's a great machine and I still use it frequently. I think biscuits do add strength to an edge to edge joint and find the alignment to be very precise. It's important to use a water-based glue so the biscuits soak it up and expand within the cutout.

Ditto. I have had a Lamello for at least 25 years, and it has cut thousands upon thousands of slots. I have a couple of Dewalts set up for specific needs with custom fences that just stay on the units, one for extension jambs for example. If you are having a problem it is either you or your machine, because biscuits are handy. I would not use them in places where it is not their intended purpose and then blame the tool or cheap biscuits.

[Jim Morgan]

The first biscuit joiner I bought was little more than a glorified angle grinder, a real POS. It was noisy as hell and there was lots of play in the arbor, so the slots were regularly oversized. I upgraded to a DeWalt (at a fraction of the cost of a Lamello, not to mention a Domino), which is tighter, quieter, and has excellent chip collection with a shop vac; biscuits fit snugly into the slots it cuts. There will always be some lateral play in a biscuit joint, but this can be limited by not cutting the slots too deep (I leave about 1/32" overall for expansion). I mostly use these for joining plywood, but when I use them for edge-joining boards into a panel, the misalignment is typically small enough to be cleaned up with a card scraper. However, the quality of the biscuits themselves varies considerably. In my experience, Lamello biscuits - diagonal grain compressed beech - are the best, featuring the best finish and the largest amount of expansion, while Porter Cable are acceptable for rough work. I got a jar of Ryobi biscuits from HD a while back that were 3-ply garbage.

With regard to joint strength, biscuits rely on expansion from water in the glue to achieve their full strength, so comparisons using polyurethane (as in FWW's comparison a few years ago) are inappropriate. Biscuited joints are certainly stronger than simple butt joints, even though they cannot rival true mortise-and-tenon joints or slip-tenon joints like those produced by the Domino. If I were woodworking for a living I would probably invest in a Domino, but since I am not, a good biscuit joiner suits my needs.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Sort your biscuits ahead of time. Test fit each one and you'll soon have 3 piles: loose, tight, Goldilocks (jeeeeeessssstttt right). If they are all loose, they might be very very old and very very dried out. You could possibly swell them again if you cared. If too fat, a vise can compress them. Some brands of biscuits are better than others.

Since getting my Domino, I rarely used biscuits anymore but I do like the small FF ones for certain (picture) frames I build here and there. In that case, I think they add quite a bit of strength in non-hardwood to non-hardwood situations (MDF to plywood, plywood to plywood, MDF to MDF, etc.). In hardwood to hardwood, edge gluing is quite strong without the biscuits but they can help alignment or just as easily misalign things if you aren't careful. Biscuits, due to their largish surface area, can swell the wood around it and if you sand that edge too soon before the glue-up has rebalanced in terms of moisture, you made end up with depressions.

Biscuits, like any tool, have their place here and there. I'll hold onto mine...it isn't taking up that much room in the shop. :)

I also find them very useful in plywood, especially aligning and attaching face frames to a cabinet. They have their place, and my shop has room for the Dewalt version.

If the biscuits are too tight in your slots, try tossing them on a cookie sheet and let them sit in the oven on low heat for an hour or so. Then use them or store them in an air-tight container.

[Jim Dwight]

I will add my vote to the "biscuits are useful sometimes" camp. I use an old "Skil" plate joiner. The fence is plastic and the instructions that came with it recommended making blocks of wood in varying thickness to use in setting it. I did and find the blocks useful for many other things. Set that way, it works. Slots are a tight fit on usually Porter Cable biscuits. I've gone through a few thousand biscuits. Every time I have used them in a stressed joint I have been disappointed. To align boards during a glueup, they work well. They do not give me perfect alignment but it is good enough not much sanding is required. Considering the boards I am often using I am happy with the result. A spline would work too but would take me longer to do. I suspect a Domino would work well but I don't have one and it would be very expensive to use for this purpose. For my little hobby shop, I plan to keep my old Skil and just limit it's use to alignment, not for strength.

[Dave Sabo]

I think you might have a suspect unit if your alignment is poor. I use both the lamello and the dewalt versions and they are spot on if I don't rock the unit during the plunge.

The only biscuits I'll use are Lamello. They are also available labeled/ marketed by Wolfcraft and can sometimes be found at Sears and Ace. You've got to verify though as sometimes they are labeled as wolfcraft. They are made in Germany and possibly even by Lamello - but I cannot vouch for the non Lamello ones.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

Biscuit joinery has its place. We've been using them since the 80's when we bought out first Lamello machine. Currently using a Top 20 and a Lamello Zeta P2.

They certainly do add strength, and can be very useful for alignment. But, the machines & cutters, and plates, need to be "right". I wont bother with any other brand but a true Lamello machine. There is a difference. We tried three others in the past. Cutters can vary in size (thickness) and plates as well.

They are not ideal for everything, but weve been using them successfully for many decades, for many situations in the shop, and I wouldnt want to be without. YMMV.

[Dave Zellers]

Biscuits are insanely useful. Especially on face frames as Malcolm said. Of course they are not a Domino. Just a wee bit of a price difference between the two. My Dewalt biscuit joiner will never be sold. In fact I need to order more #20 biscuits and because of this thread I will look into the Lamello biscuits.

But for Heavens sake, they were never intended for furniture!

[Brad Shipton]

Measure your cutter with a pair of calipers and your biscuits. Lamello adheres to their spec's others do not. 4mm is the correct width for your cutter.

Here is a link showing the Lamello process: http://www.lamello.com/en/home/join-wood/lamello-system/original-biscuit.html

[larry senen]

First of all, plywood varies in thickness. If you use biscuits for alignment ,you might get some spots where the biscuits are aligned, but not the entire joint. They're meant to be undersized to allow for adjustments in glue ups. When the water based glue expands them they lock in place. Which is why you don't want to sand the joint too soon. You'll get a hollow. in short there's no substitute for skill.

[John Lankers]

Many years ago I was talked into buying a biscuit joiner (did it myself, I guess), it was the worst investment ever! At least the biscuits that I bought, from No Name to Porter Cable didn't have consistent thickness, I measured a whole batch out at one time and found they were all over the place between 3.1 mm and 3.7ish mm - what good is that for alignment in a 4 mm slot.
For panel glueups I use cauls exclusively, for solid wood edging on countertops and sometimes on faceframes or miters I use dowels. If I had money burning a hole in my pocket I would get a Domino, probably not any time soon.

[Jim Falsetti]

I looked at the plate biscuit jointers, but instead bought a slot cutter bit for the router table. With that setup, the biscuits worked fine for tight door and window casing miters in the house.

Jim Chestnut has a video on tweaking the biscuit jointer that may be helpful - Google Clam Clamps, and look up the video index.

[John Cole]

Back in my NORM days, I built his umbrella stand: http://www.newyankee.com/index.php?id=53#!/Umbrella-Stand/p/7916509 and used biscuits for all the joinery. 20+ years and three moves later it is still solid as a rock.
Would I do that today, no, but it shows that biscuits have more strength than people give them credit for. As other people have stated, they have their use and can be a useful shop tool.

[Warren Lake]

Worked for a guy in the 80's who Maybe had the first Lamello machine in Canada. I was a bit suspicious he had his masters papers what is that thing ive never heard of. I dont remember what we used it for there but I got one right away. Cost more than my used Edge Sander. Its been used tons over the years. The story doesnt change what you need depends on what you do but that is one tool that has many uses. I bought a second one the lesser of the two after it had about 20 years on it. I thought it wasnt behaving well enough. Its the nature of those beasts, you want to join something and have it consistent to .001 everywhere it wont happen. Ive never used one for edge gluing boards say on a table top. Sometimes I have to heat up and dry the biscuits as they have swollen from the shop, sometimes I just rub them on some 36 grit paper. Depends on what they are going to be doing. Wing cutter will do some things but its limited you cant hit a panel in the middle with it, the lamello the blade comes out the end. You can put a board down to use as a guide then compress the machine and just run a continuous slot if need be.

[Bill Adamsen]

A few other folks have mentioned the same thing. I have found the Lamello biscuits are the most consistent. Buying by the box is the way to go. But is a good practice to sort ahead of a glue job. While I have had good luck with some of the other manufacturers, I have also had frustrating experiences requiring sanding and thickness measuring for every biscuit. I've rarely, almost never, had a situation where they are too loose. There must be an issue with your blade or how you are using the machine.

Biscuits are great and I use them all the time for putting edging on shelves, long miters, solid wood buildups, window and door casing miter joints to name a few applications. I bought a Domino a few years ago but find I often reach for the PC biscuit jointer first. Ridiculous as it might sound, I even went so far as to add the Festool plug to make connecting to my auto-start vacuum easier/faster.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, as others have said, a good biscuit joiner and good biscuits work well.

I don't use them for edge joints, your finger can feel whether the boards are aligned during glue ups very accurately.

I have a 4mm slot cutter for the shaper which produces perfect alignment, better than a hand held machine for biscuits within the range that the shaper can produce the slots. I also have a glue joint cutter which produces perfect alignments..........Regards, Rod.

[Larry Edgerton]

A few other folks have mentioned the same thing. I have found the Lamello biscuits are the most consistent. Buying by the box is the way to go. But is a good practice to sort ahead of a glue job. While I have had good luck with some of the other manufacturers, I have also had frustrating experiences requiring sanding and thickness measuring for every biscuit. I've rarely, almost never, had a situation where they are too loose. There must be an issue with your blade or how you are using the machine.

Biscuits are great and I use them all the time for putting edging on shelves, long miters, solid wood buildups, window and door casing miter joints to name a few applications. I bought a Domino a few years ago but find I often reach for the PC biscuit jointer first. Ridiculous as it might sound, I even went so far as to add the Festool plug to make connecting to my auto-start vacuum easier/faster.

On the sorting thing Bill, try putting them in the microwave until they are quite hot, usually brings them back to spec. Sometimes when it is really humid and I forget to close the container mine swell a bit as it is humid here often and this works for me. Plus I can heat my coffee in the shop! :D

[Andrew Gibson]

I still use my old craftsman biscuit joiner all the time, it was indispensable on the last several projects I built. lots of 45* miters and face to edge alignment work where the pieces would have been sliding all over the place and made glue up a nightmare. I'm sure something like a domino would have done the trick as well but, the lowly biscuit has yet to let me down and does not require further investment in equipment. A dozen pieces of commission furniture in my shop sense Thanksgiving don't lie, the biscuit is still useful to me.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have used a hundreds of biscuits when I was installing drug store counter that could not be glued just drawtite together and they worked like they should.

[lowell holmes]

I've used biscuits for years, but I don't think they add significant strength to the joint.
My biscuit joiner is an early first generation tool. It's good for alignment.

[Ben Zara]

Reinforcing carcase miters. They are super handy for that.

[John Piwaron]

I had a biscuit joiner. Long ago. A Porter Cable model. I think they called it the 555. I hated it. Not because the machine made slot combined with PC biscuits didn't work, because aligning the fence with the cutter was a very fussy endeavor. I sold it. It looked new when I did.

That was my experience. Maybe I had a bad machine. Maybe I should have bought a Lamello. If I had, maybe I'd have a different story to tell. Who knows?

Nowadays I use a Festool Domino for the same task - alignment. But the dominos are really little floating tenons. They're strong. I use my Domino more and more.

[rudy de haas]

I bought a porter-cable biscuit joiner to help make my stairway to the loft. The reason for this is that the treads are hickory and the nosings (including side pieces since eight steps are visible from the side) are jatoba. To join these I put a dado slot in the nosing so that the full width of the tread would go about 5/8" into it and then added 1 1/4" biscuit joins every five inches across the inside of the dado and the tongue on the hickory. The reason for this, and thus my comment on the utility of biscuit joins, is that the glue in the dado is very strong and inelastic, but not shock resistant. The glue causes the biscuits to expand a little (and I sorted them first to get the best fits) to cause a tight connection that transfers shocks across the glue line. So far, so good... (i.e. it's standing up to a bunch of teenagers charging up and down).

[Chris Fournier]

I have used well over 10000 biscuits in my day. It is a great system for joinery in solid and man made materials. Buy a crap biscuit joiner and expect what you'd get from any poor quality tool. Don't make sure that your joiner is in top form with alignment being looked at and again you'll get poor results. Pay attention to biscuit RH and it provides fast strong joints. If you are in the alignment camp then you aren't even beginning to use this tool to it's potential. It certainly can be useful for alignment when glue ups get tricky or large.

[Eric Keller]

I have heard that biscuits work better if you reference off of a flat surface instead of using the fence. I am pretty sure this would have fixed the problems with alignment that I had with them. I don't see much reason to use them in solid wood construction. Plywood is different, although there are many ways around that. I recently glued a solid wood edge to a piece of plywood, which seems like a decent application of biscuits, but I didn't use any. Seems perfectly suitable without, even though the joint takes a certain amount of stress.

I donated my biscuit joiner, but I still have another one since I inherited one from my dad. I have been tempted to use it, but I might get rid of it because it just doesn't meet my needs very often and I'm tired of having too much stuff.

[Edwin Santos]

Add my vote to the "biscuit joinery is insanely useful" camp. I had a Porter Cable 557 for many years which was good. Now I have a Lamello Top 21 which is phenomenal.

In my experience, people who indict biscuit joinery as worthless either have a poor machine, or don't seem to fully understand the correct technique and application of the machine. The whole method of use is a slightly different approach to joinery (European?). They are not intended as a substitute for a mortise and tenon joint for heaven's sake. But for countless applications, they can be fast, strong and useful. I built an auxiliary table following an article in FWW that can turn the machine into a stationary production tool. Using that table I cut about 700 slots in an afternoon for a job that involved making 30+ cabinet doors where the 1/2" pre-finished ply panels were joined to 3/4" pre-finished rails/stiles. I don't own a Domino but I do not believe it would have worked well in this particular application. As heretical as this sounds, I have built countless drawers out of pre-finished 1/2" Baltic Birch using mitered joints reinforced with biscuits. It is a very clean, fast and efficient way to build drawers and I have never had one come apart, even deep, large drawers.

Do this experiment - make a box out of any composite material (PB, Ply, MDF) with biscuits and then try busting it apart, and you will see just how strong biscuits are. Look up the article in FWW from July/Aug 2012 for a variety of applications in furniture making. Also, I feel the Lamello videos you can find on YouTube are very insightful.

[Edwin Santos]

Biscuits are used for aligning the boards in a glue up. They add nothing to the strength. They are good to use on able top glue ups.

They add no strength. You need splines to add strength.

That last statement is like saying Chevy trucks are junk, you need to get a GMC

[Greg Urwiller]

The joiner I have is the Ryobi JM80. Yup....cheap! Bought it years ago when most of my tools were Craftsman. Don't know where I picked up the biscuits back then but I'm sure they were cheap also. Still have a few left, been sitting out in a drawer forever. My cutter measures 4.35mm, and the box store biscuits that are available to me measure from 3.9 to mostly 4mm with the largest at 4.2mm. Obviously thats why they're no help with alignment! Got frustrated years ago since they didn't do any good for alignment purposes then, so I haven't used the set up since. I was surprised when I read in the FW article to "use biscuits to aid in alignment". Sounds like I'm suffering from a case of "substandard equipment"! Thanks for all the replies, good reading. Greg

[lowell holmes]

I'm not recommending them, just stating they are good for alignment. I have a jar of biscuits that I bought when they were first introduced, and also biscuit joiner.

I use the every three or four years, only for alignment. I agree they add no strength. I use slip tenons for strength.

[Edwin Santos]

For aligning panel glue-ups, I use cauls which work well.



For a panel glue-up, I'm with you. In this instance, the edge glue joint is more than sufficient joint strength and cauls are an excellent way of keeping the whole glue-up flat and applying pressure far from the edge in no- man's land. And your tutorial on making shop made cambered cauls is excellent too!

[Edwin Santos]

Here's an example of door construction using biscuits. All material here is pre-finished BB ply, 1/2" for the panel and 3/4" for the frame. There is a small cove reveal in the panel, and the ending look was sort of contemporary, very clean. Cutting the slots using the biscuit joiner table mounted where the workpiece could be slid along after marking with a story stick, was fast. It was a bonus that all parts could be cut to finished size and no compensating calculations were needed. The glue up was quick and everything stayed aligned which was important since this was pre-finished material and sanding flush was not an option. We did about 35 doors this way for this job. Some of the doors were fairly tall. I would say you could toss them like frisbees and be confident that nothing would come apart. Admittedly, this is cabinetry and casework more than fine furniture but it is a recent example of where biscuit joinery came to our rescue.

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[Edwin Santos]

Here is an example of attaching a shop made, pre-finished molding to a pre-finished melamine shelf with a PB core. The biscuit joiner is shown mounted to a stationary mini-table clamped to the work table, and the shelf is slid along and slots cut with the workpiece top down. Then the same is done with the molding. Because the molding overhangs the shelf on the bottom to create a perception of thickness, we wanted the strength of the biscuits to prevent it from ever getting pulled off if caught. Plus the alignment in the glue up was helpful because like the doors, this was all pre-finished material, and sanding flush after the fact was not an option. I would say the shelves were about 92" long. This method was an easy way of handling long stock especially where the biscuit joiner fence would not work well registering against the molding.

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[John TenEyck]

Insanely useful for me as well. 5,000 biscuits later, I would never want to be without one. Miters, bevels, case goods, it does it all.

John

[Edwin Santos]

Here is an example of a shelf attached to the face of a frame. The customer wanted a "bistro board" for her kitchen. The frame is a basic cope/stick construction like you would do with a common raised panel door. The shelf at the bottom for the chalk and eraser was shop made and I didn't want it to look clunky, so we made it kind of sleek. I think it is 3/8" thick in the body because of the material that was wasted away to create an integral front lip. The biscuit joiner was a good and fast way to join a piece this thin to a face with plenty of strength.

Yes we could we have cut the slots in the little shelf on the router table with a slotting bit. Cutting the mating slot in the face could not have been done with the slotting bit because the location was higher than the maximum height of the slotter on the router table. So I guess we could have found a thin spiral bit and cut it with a handheld router. But the point is we did it with the biscuit joiner faster than it would take to think about alternative methods.

The original question was "what good are biscuits" and I hope these examples provide some applications.



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[Andrew J. Coholic]

Ive had this discussion many times. And some are open to understanding and others are not. It is all good - we all use what we think is the best method(s) for the job at hand.

In our shop we use dowels, Lamello biscuits and Festool Dominos. All three fairly regularly. But for many different applications.

Dowels are the cheapest and fastest for case goods, since we use a stationary boring machine. Donimos are very handy for more structural type joinery, or to get into a tighter area, deeper.

Biscuits are still so very useful - and cheap. By the box of 1000, our cost is approx 5 cents/unit. And the machine makes the slot accurately and very quickly (I wouldnt even consider using a router..).

Dominos on the other hand are about 26 cents for a 8x40 or 8x50 per unit. The machine is not as fast either. So when a biscuit will do, why use the Domino?

I still like dowels if we can get what we need on the machine. But again, everything has its best use.

After 30+ years using them, I can't see getting rid of the Lamello machines any time soon.

[Mark Wooden]

+1 on bisquits being very useful and far stronger than the detractors say. If your bisquits are pulling out, you didn't put them in correctly. I Mitre, Spline, and Glue (MSG) a lot of door and window casings ahead of time and if one gets broken, the entire joint is usually destroyed because the wood around the joint is broken and stuck to the bisquit.
I don't use them for making passage doors or cabinet doors- I have a shaper, mortiser, tennoning heads etc.. But I do use them to align panel glue ups as thin as a 1/2".
The most important thing in the system is the joiner though, you do need to invest in a good one. I have a Lamello Top 10 I got used and a PC 557; both have served me well.

[Lee Schierer]

You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqEhJWv4JNo) And the follow up. Joint Test #2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_4232479235&feature=iv&src_vid=bqEhJWv4JNo&v=6cAUz_eCmbw)

[Keith Hankins]

I bought one back in the day because Norm used it. I found out over time they do not add any strength but are cool for aligninig boards for glue ups for panels. However after gaining some experience doing panels and realizing I did not 10,000psi on clamps to edge glue boards, I don't even need them for alignment anymore. IMO they just take valuable time and not needed.

But for others they work and thats fine. I sold my PC plate jointer years ago and never regretted it.

[Cary Falk]

You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqEhJWv4JNo)


That's all fine and dandy. We all know that edge grain joints are pretty strong with only glue. What about but joints, corner joints, miters, or anything plywood? I also saw a woodworking magazine test that said they were as strong or stronger than a Domino. Do that same test with a domino and you would arrive at the same conclusion, Dominoes add no strength. Festool owners heads around the world would explode. Ha!Ha!

[Curt Harms]

Right tool for the job, that's about all that needs to be said. I suspect biscuits have been used inappropriately, didn't work well and were therefore pronounced as no good at all for anything. Whatever works.

[Edwin Santos]

You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqEhJWv4JNo)

I don't think the guy in that video understands the principle of leverage very well, or at least he doesn't recognize how it influenced what he is trying to study. He fastened his cable to the top of each board upright in the vise and no surprise, each broke at vise jaws at the other end, where the maximum point of leverage was occurring, joint or no joint. I would say he did a good job confirming that leverage exists just like the Egyptians did.

For anyone interested in joint strength tests, I think Mattias Wandel's tests are very good.

[Cary Falk]

I would say he did a good job confirming........

Nothing!!!!. "It doesn"t prove anything, but what it does prove..." Say what? Some people should not post videos on the net. :D

[Chris Fournier]

You might want to look at this video that load tests various joint types. Joint Testing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqEhJWv4JNo) And the follow up. Joint Test #2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_4232479235&feature=iv&src_vid=bqEhJWv4JNo&v=6cAUz_eCmbw)

These links represent the value of the interweb to a tee. If you don't know more than the person posting the link you are in trouble. Anyone who says that biscuits don't add strength to a joint really shouldn't be giving advice OR should specify the type of joint that they are talking about. Honestly go dig up a 20 year old FWW article about different types of joinery strength. JOINERY.

[Dave Zellers]

I got a kick out of this guy when he said 'I don't know anyone who coats the biscuits with glue '.

Are you kidding me? The biscuit is DESIGNED to swell into the kerf AFTER you coat it in glue! Gluing only the slot is not the same. For any product to work it has to be used correctly.

[Jerry Olexa]

Add me to the list of those endorsing the use of a biscuit joiner..I've had a Porter Cable 557 for 6-7 years and overall, like the results.....I do not use it to add strength to a joint....But for alignment it is very helpful and simplifies much of my gluing process...The final joint can be easily planed or sanded later to your desired look....Sorry, I like them and wouldn't be without one for my clumsy fingers when gluing..

[Edwin Santos]

Anyone who says that biscuits don't add strength to a joint really shouldn't be giving advice OR should specify the type of joint that they are talking about.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. I simply cannot understand the widespread misconception that the primary (only) application for biscuits is edge to edge joints to aid alignment. While it CAN be used in that application, it is not where it is primarily intended or where the system excels. Think about biscuits where you would traditionally use a spline, because a biscuit is a spline. Corner joints, T joints, reinforcing miter and case miter joints. It also excels when used with composite materials like ply, MDF, PB that present their own challenges. Here is a 3 minute video from Lamello demonstrating one of their biscuit joiners, and note the one joint they don't demonstrate is an edge (panel) joint. The grooving method they show at 2:15 is a very novel one for installing glued in partitions after the main carcase glue-up by sliding them in where the mating slots have already been cut. I built a set of cubbyhole organizers for an office once using this technique. It was much faster than cutting dadoes and everything lined up perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU1w52XR5T0

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting the biscuit joiner is the swiss army knife of woodworking that does it all. It has its applications and its limitations. But at the same time, calling it totally worthless is a disservice to a newcomer who is looking for advice.