how much camber on fore plane?

[greg Forster]

I've been stuck on a plateau on neanderthal woodworking the last couple years; using methods that worked for me (see: cricket table build), but, I feel are rather lacking.

This weekend, I managed a little time to think about cambers on fore planes. Most of my readings discussed a camber with an 8-10" radius.
I went for the 10" radius; taking an old laminated 2" plane iron, I hand-ground the curve with a diamond plate and created the secondary bevel with an oil stone.

Setting the depth for 1" wide shaving worked well for soft pine, but was a little aggressive with ash. But ... why am I only using 1" of cut with a 2" blade?
is this efficient?

I then chose what seems like a better use of the iron; 75% of blade width-in-the-cut for soft-woods, (1.5" with this two inch iron) and 2/3 blade width with hardwoods.

This would result in a .028" thick shaving , at center of iron in softwoods. Is this reasonable or should the camber radius be greater, say 15-20".


Are there advantages to narrow, but deeper shavings vs. wider, but more shallow shavings at fore plane stage of prepping boards?



A few pics of the plane iron; the darker areas on the secondary bevel are reflections of the camera.



359398 359399 359400

[Jim Koepke]

Just my opinion but isn't a 0.028" shaving a more suitable thickness for a scrub plane.

My fore plane is usually a#5-1/4 or a #6 at this point the purpose isn't to remove a lot of wood but to get what wood is there flat and ready for smoothing if needed.

jtk

[Tom Blank]

Greg,

I was doing the same thing today. I have a #5 I had ground with a 10" radius camber. In my opinion, it was way too aggressive cutting a similar thickness shaving around 1" wide. This afternoon I changed it to an 18" radius and it cuts a .012" shaving using about 1½” of the blade width. I think I will flatten it some more and try to keep it cutting around .012"-.015" using closer to the full width of the blade.

I have a scrub plane if i want to remove wood in a hurry.

Tom

[Kees Heiden]

Personally I don't like such a strong camber either on my jack (or fore) plane. I am more in the 12 - 14" region. With a camber like 8-10" you indeed only use a very small part of the blade in harder kinds of wood.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Because I've got a number of planes, I've spread the cambers out a bit.

Scrub at 3", 5-1/4 at 5-1/2", jack (5-1/2) at 8", Fore (6) at 16", and joiner (7) at 30".

I went a little overboard but it's serving me well.

[lowell holmes]

Fore plane definition:

1. a plane, intermediate in size between a jack plane and a jointer plane, used for preliminary smoothing. ... Carpentry for Boys J. S. Zerbe. The legs should be dressed square and smoothed down with the fore plane to make them perfectly straight.
Excuse the bold face, I did a copy/paste and that's what came up.

I just ease the corners on the iron until it leaves no tracks. You do this by bearing down on the corners while sharpening. This may be leaving a it of radius, but I've never attempted to measure it.

[Bill White]

Take a look at a #70 scrub. It'll scare you to death. BIG camber. I normally use an 8" rad. on the 5 1/2.
Just my way.
Bill

[Kees Heiden]

Lowel, that I would call a try plane. The foreplane was in the 18 th early 19 th century what was called a jack plane later on. I have also heared that carpenters used the word jackplane earlier then cabinet makers who held on to fore plane for longer. But it is not my language, so you decide 😄

[lowell holmes]

I never understood all the names. I call them by the numbers. My collection includes #3 , #4, #5, #5 1/2, #6, 604 bed rock, 605 bedrock and a 607 bedrock.

I have Veritas breakers and irons in the Bedrocks. I use the #3 and the #5 1/2 planes more than the others. I really favor the 5 1/2. It is a long, wide, plane with good mass.
The #6 is almost as long as a #7 and has good mass to it.

[steven c newman]

I have four #5 jack planes in the shop, ranging from the 8" radius Corsair C-5 through a pair of Stanley #5s, one a bit less of a camber than the other, then a Millers Falls#14 with just a hint at the corners. The #5-1/2 has no camber, neither does the Millers Falls No. 11 (5-1/4 size) Each of these planes are a hair different from the others....both in camber and usage. Instead of changing a blade, I just change planes. Timesaver?

[Bill McDermott]

Greg, If you don't own a scrub plane, but you want to hog off material as if you did, then your set-up is fine. Remember, scrub planes are much more narrow. You effectively made a scrub plane. That's cool. I did that with a cheapo #5 and am glad to have it. I hear you on the hardwood. Much different experience. In any case, when I am scrubbing, it is often to get a really twisted or cupped board flat. I am not as concerned about getting a full width cut as I am about getting the high spots removed.

[greg Forster]

I have a Stanley 5-1/2 with cambered iron- about 8"; always used this for rough sawn lumber , planing across the grain and this works great.

I have been watching The English Woodworker videos and Richard makes a very convincing case to start out planing with the grain, rather than across the board.
Much more efficient!

So, I'm trying to arrive at an optimal method to work rough sawn lumber. And, it all starts with the foreplane and a cambered iron.

Time is Money

[steven c newman]

Maybe do like I do...go at a diagonal to the rough grain?

[Warren Mickley]

A few notes for you, Greg. The terms fore plane and jack plane have been used somewhat interchangeably since the time of Moxon (1678). Moxon calls the joiner's tool a fore plane and says it is the same as what the carpenter's call a jack plane. Possibly they were set up somewhat differently. Neve (1736) uses the term fore plane only, Nicholson (1812) uses jack plane for a joiners roughing plane. In the Seaton chest (1796) the inventory shows a double iron fore plane, a double iron jack plane, and a single iron jack plane. This is a rare case where someone used both terms, but unfortunately both of the double iron planes are missing from the surviving chest.

The term scrub plane dates to about 1890, when Stanley introduced an iron plane to compete with the short schropp hobel used by immigrants of the time. Not used in the English tradition.

Both Moxon and Nicholson describe rough planing technique as being with the grain. Cross grain planing was reserved for special situations like a badly cupped board.

The concept of routinely starting with crossgrain planing over the whole board is rather recent. The measuring of a radius on a plane iron is also recent. Here is a more practical way of looking at camber. You want enough camber so that the corners don't dig in. So if you find them digging in when you are taking heavy cuts, add more camber. If you are taking cuts in a hard wood and you find yourself only able to manage a very narrow cut because of the camber, move toward less camber.

You might think you need a fleet of roughing planes to handle both woods like white oak and white pine, but most woodworkers from the 17th century to the early 19th century seem to have used just one roughing plane. I have done the same for forty years. We take somewhat wider and deeper cuts in softer timbers.