Balsa Wood Help required PLEASE [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

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Master Abacus

10-20-2005, 3:38 PM

Hi, Im new here, I just found this forum in the hope that someone can advise me, and point me in the right direction.

Im after a way to create some small BalsaWood Spindle type pieces.

I know I can make them by hand with a craft knife and sand paper, but im sure someone will know a quicker way, or of a machine that will do this for me.

I need them to be really small, 20mm to 5mm in places. and in length no more than probaly 150mm.

I hope someone can help me, or advise me the best way to make these as i need in excess of 5000 of them for a model i am producing. I am hopefull that someone will tell me i can make these by machine and that i dont have to make them all by hand.

thank you for reading this, and here goes...

Lee DeRaud

10-20-2005, 3:57 PM

Im after a way to create some small BalsaWood Spindle type pieces.

I know I can make them by hand with a craft knife and sand paper, but im sure someone will know a quicker way, or of a machine that will do this for me.

I need them to be really small, 20mm to 5mm in places. and in length no more than probaly 150mm.

I hope someone can help me, or advise me the best way to make these as i need in excess of 5000 of them for a model i am producing. I am hopefull that someone will tell me i can make these by machine and that i dont have to make them all by hand.

thank you for reading this, and here goes...These guys make a "micro-lathe" that might be the answer: http://www.proxxon.com/us/
But for 5000 pieces, it's gonna take awhile no matter how you do it.

(FYI: this is a "real name only" forum...drop a private message to one of the moderators to have it fixed.)

Master Abacus

10-20-2005, 4:16 PM

These guys make a "micro-lathe" that might be the answer: http://www.proxxon.com/us/
But for 5000 pieces, it's gonna take awhile no matter how you do it.

(FYI: this is a "real name only" forum...drop a private message to one of the moderators to have it fixed.)

FYI this is my real name....

Im sure there must be a Quicker way to make these.... can Balsa be pressed into shape?

Lee DeRaud

10-20-2005, 4:33 PM

can Balsa be pressed into shape?Sheet balsa can be die-stamped, but that requires pretty heavy-duty machinery, not to mention rather expensive dies. And it doesn't really work all that well for round objects, which is what it sounds like you're trying to make.

Chris Giles

10-20-2005, 6:26 PM

Veritas sells what they call a "Dowel Maker" which can be used to make square sticks into dowels fairly quickly. You could chuck a 3' piece of balsa in a drill and feed it through. I don't know if you could use it effectively if the turnings must have varying diameters along their length, but check it out anyway, it might be just what your looking for.

Randy Meijer

10-20-2005, 11:48 PM

A few more details would be helpful and just to be certain we are talking about 5000 spindles each with a variable diameter from 3/4" to 1/5". Any possibility of using a material other than wood? And could you post a picture/sketch/drawing of the profile of the spindle. Would you care to disclose what sort of model you are making??

I think you will get a better response if you can provide a little more information for us to work with.

Master Abacus

10-21-2005, 6:10 AM

Firstly the Verita Dowel maker looks like a good starting point for me.
Thanks for that.

More info as Requested:

The Spindles need to be Balsa for Lightness and boyency, as there are to make the outer beams on a wooden boat model im making.

The Spindles are more of a Tapered Design.(ill try explain)

Starting at 5mm at one end
Opening up to 15mmtowards the middle
Then Taper Back down to 5mm at the other end.

The Max total length of these will be 150mm (So only small)

I caould put up a sketch if someone would be so kind as to tell me how to do that.

Thanks for the Help so far, hope the extra info helps

Randy Meijer

10-21-2005, 2:29 PM

Firstly the Verita Dowel maker looks like a good starting point for me....

I don't believe the Veritas will make tapered dowels. Secondly, I wonder if the square drive sockets would just round off the ends of the balsa pieces. It is not a very sturdy wood. And thirdly, I have seen a number of post about balsa being difficult to cut cross grain which is what you would be doing with the Veritas unit. People who have tried to turn it on a lathe usually resort to coarse sandpaper as using cutting tools don't seem to work well. Before you invest a bunch of money in that system, you might be wise to contact the company to verify that it will do what you want it to.

I don't know what type of tools you already have available or how much money you are willing to invest in this project; but two ideas come to mind and maybe one or the other will stimulate someone to come up with something better.

You could buy an inexpensive lathe and turn the spindles using coarse sandpaper. This would still be time consuming; but probably much faster than doing them by hand. You could make a couple of square drive adapters(like the Veratis system uses) out of wood for the headstick and the tailstock. I don't think you could use the traditional grasping method of chuck and live center because the wood is so soft. You can get a Wilton lathe from Amazon.com for about $100 which should serve your purposes and it has a VS drive which should be helpful.

Second thought would be to make some sort of jig to use with a belt or disk sander. This method would only work if the tapers were essentially straight and you would have to turn each piece end for end to get the double taper that you have described. You are going to generate a tremendous amount dust with either method so be sure to use a respirator. Some sort of dust collection capability would be a good idea unless you can work outdoors.

Because of the size, shape and material involved, my personal feeling is that using a sander would be the better option!

Keith Christopher

10-21-2005, 3:10 PM

found some interesting reading about balsa here : http://www.mat.uc.pt/~pedro/ncientificos/artigos/techbal.html

I believe if you try to machine this wood you will spend more time, frustration and money than you want. Just get some sand paper and some helpers and go to it.

Keith

Lee DeRaud

10-21-2005, 4:00 PM

I believe if you try to machine this wood you will spend more time, frustration and money than you want. Just get some sand paper and some helpers and go to it.And post pictures of the model when you're done: 5000 pieces of the size described is enough balsa wood to build a decent sized canoe: near as I can tell, you're starting off with about 120 sqft of 1/2" stock.

Don Baer

10-21-2005, 5:11 PM

And post pictures of the model when you're done: 5000 pieces of the size described is enough balsa wood to build a decent sized canoe: near as I can tell, you're starting off with about 120 sqft of 1/2" stock.

gee do they sell Balsa as rough cut that'd be 60 Bf of 2/4 balsa wouldn't it. :D

Randy Meijer

10-21-2005, 10:18 PM

Actually, 1/2" stock won't work. The dimensions call for a max. dia. of 15 mm which is 0.59". So for the sake of calculations, I assumed the use of 3/4" stock. 120 square ft. would be about right except you have to make allowance for the loss of kerf width for 5000 saw cuts so you are actually talking about 160 sf. ±. Ball park that works out to about 35 lbs. of wood after you deduct cutting and turning losses.

Master Abacus

10-22-2005, 1:57 PM

Randy Meijer

10-22-2005, 8:54 PM

Chris Cordina

10-22-2005, 11:24 PM

Do they have to be round, Could it be a square spindle. If so a laser could cut those fairly quickly.

Norman Hitt

10-23-2005, 3:51 AM

Thank you for the Help and Advise so for. I think the Jig could then finish off with sanding....

I was speaking to someone at a model show earlier today, and they said they would suggest making a MOLD and pressng these rather than sanding.... any thaughts on this? and how would would i do it?

Ive got the Balsa wood ordered and is due Early December, so ive a montht ot so to find the best solution. and Ive a Spare shed to store it all in....

Thanks again, keep the ideas coming for me please.

From my experience with Balsa many yrs ago, I don't believe the balsa pressed in a mold will hold it's shape satisfactorily.

I would think that if you make a jig that can be mounted on the table of a disc sander and pivots in the middle to give you the two angles needed to make the taper from the ends to the middle, and with a small hand crank to rotate the spindle stock as it is fed up against the sanding disc, this would give the fastest and most repeatable results. Using the jig I visualize, I think the actual sanding to shape would take less time than mounting the spindel stock into the jig.

Lee DeRaud

10-23-2005, 11:01 AM

Do they have to be round, Could it be a square spindle. If so a laser could cut those fairly quickly.Yeah, but a laser that cuts 15mm balsa? Figure $15-20K minimum.

Chris Cordina

10-23-2005, 11:59 AM

He doesn't say where he is but there is a laser forum, maybe there is someone close to him who might help.

Dave Richards

10-23-2005, 1:26 PM

I'm curious as to how these spindles will be used on the model? Are they structural members or for a rail or what?

If they must be of balsa, I would think you could shape them quickly enough by spinning them against a moving sanding belt or disK. You could make a jig to hold the pieces and limit the depth of cut by the sander.