Table Saw Gloat -- The General w/ Slider

[Gary Curtis]

The fact that my dad was a machinist in the aerospace industry didn't help me choose a saw. I'm not rich, you see. I started out looking at the top --- Knapp and Felder and MiniMax -- last December. I visited the showrooms of Felder and Laguna showrooms here in California. I visited the shops of people who own the equipment.

It took until late summer to realize that I couldn't afford either. Why those brands? It wasn't for bragging rights. It was for safety. I am genuinely convinced that a sliding table can save your life. Now that I'm retired, I work in a cabinet shop as a volunteer apprentice. My friend owns it, and told me he wishes he could afford a true European Format saw, one with a slider. And for the same reason --- safety.

This is my second post on Sawmill Creek. I learned about this forum only 3 weeks ago. My first post was to ask people about sliding table saws. Based on the great (educated) responses to that question, I was able to narrow down my search to two brands of saws.

Two fellows on Sawmill Creek, one in Quebec and one in Philadelphia told me that they work with both the Martin or the Altendorf saw as professionals, and in their opinion, the Canadian-made General with a sliding table does a darned good job.

So, yesterday I visited Eagle tools in Glendale California and bought the right tilt General 350 with a 5hp motor and attached sliding table.

Does anyone have good recipes for peanut butter sandwiches? I'm going to be eating them for a long time.

That said, when I opened any cavity and looked at every crevice on the General, I had the feeling that my dad would have been happy. I think I'll have that same feeling I get using my 30-year old Snap On tools when working on my car long after I forget how much I paid for the General.

It's good to know that this level of craftsmanship is still available here in North America. Thanks to those on SMC who steered me toward my decision.

Gary Curtis

[lou sansone]

no no no ... this is not a gloat without as picture

come on you can do better
:cool:

lou

[Dan Oliphant]

Good going Gary, sounds like you did your research and purchased what met all your needs, including safety. That is very important to being happy with your saw.

[Michael Ballent]

Gary, congrats on your purchase, do you happen to have at least a link to the manufacture's WWW site that shows what you bought? and also is the sliding table an aftermarket type thing or something that is inherent to the General Saw?

[Gary Curtis]

Sorry I forgot the pix. I'm new the site. Here's the Canadian website for General. They do not have photos of the slider attached to the saw. Their new, improved catalog was printed a few days ago. A better website will follow.

http://www.general.ca/pagemach/machines/0general/650_350t50a.html

Gary C.

[Frank Pellow]

Congratulations Gary and I am sure that will like the saw. I have the left tilt version (model 650) of the same saw.

Michael, here is a link to the saw on the General web site: http://www.general.ca/pagemach/machines/0general/650_350t50a.html

But, search as I might, I can not find any information about the sliding table at that web site.

[Michael Ballent]

Frank and Gary,

Thanks for the link, so the sliding table is like other aftermarket sliding tables correct? The left wing would be removed and replaced with the sliding table right? Just curious as to what is out there :D I did find that there is a sliding table attachment from Laguna, for Unisaws and PM66, but it is really spendy.


Sorry I forgot the pix. I'm new the site. Here's the Canadian website for General. They do not have photos of the slider attached to the saw. Their new, improved catalog was printed a few days ago. A better website will follow.

http://www.general.ca/pagemach/machines/0general/650_350t50a.html

Gary C.

[Gary Curtis]

I probably would have bought this very same saw in early summer if I could have gotten literature or a website with photos of the sliding table. I spoke with two people at General on Tuesday and they admitted that they make good machines, but bad brochures.

Aware that they appear a bit obsolete, they hired a professional writer, editor and photographer to produce new literature, including a vastly improved website.

I'm just retired after 35 years as a writer/publisher, so I groan when I look at much of the literature out there.

Especially the operating manuals. I can't tell you how many people have approached me wanting a catalog, or just a brochure, thinking it's possible to knock one out in a weekend. Ha. On the other hand, it helped me being able to see the real machinery close up. Here's my count of inspections of various brands in shops or showrooms: Felder— 5, Knapp — 3, Mini-Max —3, General — 2. Printed literature just doesn't have the same impact. When I saw the ground surfaces on the General table-tops, I knew I was looking at the "real deal".

Gee, I forgot to ask for a basebal cap, a coffee mug, T-shirt. You know, Freebies.

Gary

[Gary Curtis]

Let me describe the slider. The left table extension is first removed, and the sliding table ball bearing track bolted on in its place. This seam puts the right edge of the sliding table 10" to the left of the blade. That is the downside. The European sliders come right up to the blade. But then, they usually don't permit Dado blades.

Next, an outrigger assembly is bolted to the base of the saw cabinet. This swings back and forth, providing vertical support for the table as it moves through its range of motion.

With the outrigger mounted, the sliding table is attached to the bearing track, and the support rod attached between the table bottom and the pivoting outrigger mount below.

In effect, this arrangement transfers weight from the top of the table to a much lower center of gravity at the base of the saw cabinet. The 540 lb weight of the saw stabilizes large loads placed on the slider. Even a 4x8 sheet of plywood is secure. At least that's the promise.

You probably know that for years, General was the actual manufacturer of Biesemeyer fences. Their own rip fence is the Biesemeyer design, now that the patent has run out. They pattern the crosscut fence on the slider after that design. So it is big and beefy. For miter cuts, the fence could offer more. It only arcs back and forth, and does not have the detents at 90, 45 and 22.5 like many of the Euro saws or the Osborne, for instance. Click stops would be nice, but I can live without that feature.

And it does not have flip stops for crosscuts. The General sales rep for the Western U.S. advised me to buy the Kreg attacment for flip stops. Oh, and fence doesn't have a magnifier as does the rip fence. Looks like I'll have to buy that, too.

The new catalog will be released in a few weeks showing all these features. The improved website will follow.

GC

[Gary Curtis]

Aftermarket sliding tables all have legs. That's why I didn't just buy an Excalibur. They take up too much valuable floor space. The General is a true outrigger mounted slider. Outriggers can be folded flat against the saw cabinet when not in use.

General is also announcing a digital rip fence. To be sold as a retrofit to any of their equipment. And they are working on improvements to the crosscut fence. I would guess that means a magnifier, detents for miter cuts, and flip stops.

GC

[Mark Carlson]

I cant wait to see this thing. I bought a General 650 from Eagle Tools this summer and they had the Excalibur slider hooked to a General 350. I wonder if this sliding table will work with a left tilt 650. Probably not. I might need to stop by Eagle Tools and take a look...

[Dan Racette]

I know you guys mentioned that general has "bad brochures" and they are coming out with new ones, but I was wondering if there is ANY info on this attached outrigger slider, by general.

d

[Gary Curtis]

Their current catalog shows photos on the 12 inch model (Canadian), and on the 10, 12 & 14-inch Internatinonal (Taiwan) models. The actual slider is a slightly different version for each model. There is a small note about the slider on the Canadian 10-inch page. No photo, though.

I believe this accessory is made in Europe, but don't quote me. It weighs 280 lbs, so I would bet it isn't composed of melted-down beer cans.

Most sliding tables require a right-tilt model saw. That's true for the General, at least. The position of the motor on the arbor would interfere with a left tilt. But take heart. Used General tables saws sell for the new retail price. They are considered to be 50-year machines. Or, so I'm told.

GC

[Aaron Mills]

Does the sliding table look anything like the one on this General Int'l saw?

http://coastmachinery.com/uploads/996-1.jpg

[Keith Foster]

Does anyone have good recipes for peanut butter sandwiches? I'm going to be eating them for a long time. Toast the bread and while it's still hot spread the peanut butter so it melts. Then add your favorite jelly. I prefer regular old grape, but several have had good luck with appricot or peach. Now, don't forget to slice the sandwhich across in a diagonal direction - it's just more classy that way. And don't use the table saw to slice it. I know, it seems like a good idea - but in hindsight it just doesn't work well....


Congrats on the new tool and welcome to the 'mill.... :D

[Gary Curtis]

Aron,

That's it. The new fence is somewhat different. But in your photo, notice the position of the floor mat. That's my rationale for a slider. You position yourself about 3 feet to the left of the blade for most cuts. It's a safe place.

GC

[Vaughn McMillan]

Gary, where is Eagle Tools located in Glendale? I've lived and worked in the general area for almost 15 years, and I wasn't aware of their existence. (Granted, I didn't become interested in real woodworking tools until less than a year ago, and I probably can't afford what they're selling, but it'd be fun to drop by the showroom and drool for a while.)

Thanks -

- Vaughn

[Michael Ballent]

Oh me likey :D I think that would look really cool attached to my SawStop... I guess that would make it the safest saw in the work ;) :D

[Ian Barley]

Gary

Congrats on the purchase - you obviously did your homework and I am sure you will get great pleasure from this machine. You safety rationale for the sliding table is completely correct.

Now - peanut butter sandwiches - everybody who knows anything knows that you have to start with crunchy peanut butter - smooth is no use to man nor beast. You then need some Marmite. I suspect that you ex-colonials don't have real Marmite so you may have to make do with a somewhat inferior "yeast extract" product. However this should be good enough. Mix the peanut butter - I did say it has to be crunchy didn't I? - with the Marmite until they are uniform in colour. Then spread thickly onto freshly toasted white bread. Real man's food!:)

P.S Under no circumstances, ever, mix peanut butter with "jelly" (more properly called Jam I believe) unless, of course, you are less than 11 years of age.

[Dan Racette]

We in the states often say peanut butter and jelly together. Jelly here is gelled fruit juice and sugar. Jam is crushed fruit and suger gelled. Jelly has no seeds or chunks. (Gosh darn, I never wanted to know that, but I had to help my mommy can as a little boy)

Now, peanut butter, hmmm...don't get me started. But I would have to agree with you that sliders and table saws are like the proverbial americacn saying of "going together 'like peanut butter and jelly'".

I am kind of wondering based on Michaels comment about putting this slider on his saw-stop, if this outrigger slider would even fit other company's saws?

d

[scott spencer]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on a might fine saw. Thanks for sharing the story....but I don't see it! Gloats of this magnitude definitely require a picture or two....according to the invisible rules anyway.

Have fun and be safe! (I wouldn't mind a pic if you get a chance :D)

[Gary Curtis]

I'll answer a few of your questions.
Eagle Tool is located on Treadwell Street off of San Fernando Road, just north of the Glendale Freeway. Their phone is 323 999-2909.

Jesse, the owner, can tell you if this slider will attach to saws other than the General. Including the SawStop.

A guy in my woodworking club bought a Robland sliding table and attached it to his 12" Inca. Eagle tool sold him the Robland. It doesn't use either the outrigger or the Excalibur-style legs, so the capacity would seem limited.

By the way, people in my woodworking club tell me that Sam Maloof will only buy equipment from Eagle in Glendale. That could be nothing more than rumor, but Eagle enjoys high repute here in Southern California.

Gary C.

[Joe Mioux]

I spoke with two people at General on Tuesday and they admitted that they make good machines, but bad brochures.



Boy is that an understatement.

[Rob Russell]

Let me describe the slider. The left table extension is first removed, and the sliding table ball bearing track bolted on in its place. This seam puts the right edge of the sliding table 10" to the left of the blade. That is the downside. The European sliders come right up to the blade. But then, they usually don't permit Dado blades.


Gary,

Congrats on the new saw. It'll really count as a gloat when you canpost pics of it in your workshop.:D

FYI, the 'major' players from Europe do support dado cutters, both Felder and MiniMax.

Rob

[Cecil Arnold]

Ian, we outlawed Marmite in the colonies, only mad dogs and Englishmen would eat that stuff.

[Frank Pellow]

...Aware that they appear a bit obsolete,

Now there is an understement!




...they hired a professional writer, editor and photographer to produce new literature, including a vastly improved website.

Thats good news, but it will be even better news if they do something about their abysmal manuals.

By the way, this is comming from smeone who likes his General-650 table saw (but that is no thanks at all to the manual).

[Frank Pellow]

... I suspect that you ex-colonials don't have real Marmite
When we lived in the Seattle area there was a store near our house that sold real Marmite. :)

[Corey Hallagan]

Congrats on the new saw and a really nice one!!

Corey

[Jules Dominguez]

Congratulations on your new saw. I'm sure you'll enjoy it and what the hell, "you can't take it with you...". I'm still plugging along with a 25 year old Delta contractors saw, and thinking about the possibilities.

When I was thirteen years old, a friend introduced me to peanut butter and mustard sandwiches. Sounds weird, I know, but they were good. Try one if you get desperate for variety.

[Dan Forman]

Congrats on the saw and slider, I'm sure will enjoy them. That General is a fantastic saw. Let us know how you like the slider.

I am a peanut butter addict. There, I've said it.

The finest Pnut butter is the stuff you grind yourself. See if you can find a natural food store that has a machine and bulk Pnuts, that lets you make it right there. You will never go back to Skippy.

The best sandwich is pnut butter and fresh sliced mango. Since you don't have a SawStop, feel free to slice the mango on the table saw. I might also suggest rice pecan bread by "Food For Life", also available at nat food stores. Could put you over your budget, but maybe on Sundays you can splurge. Don't forget to have a nice bowl of thin gruel for breakfast! Gee, kind of reminds me of my musician days. :D

Dan

[Paul Canaris]

"Now - peanut butter sandwiches - everybody who knows anything knows that you have to start with crunchy peanut butter - smooth is no use to man nor beast. You then need some Marmite. I suspect that you ex-colonials don't have real Marmite so you may have to make do with a somewhat inferior "yeast extract" product." :eek:

Ian, we had a neighbor give us a jar of Marmite about three years ago. They were leery of using it, and wanted to use us as the guinea pigs. Well, we chickened out as well, it sits to this day in the pantry, what does it taste like? :D

[Andy Hoyt]

Hello. My name is Andy and I am a peanutholic.

[Frank Pellow]

"Now - peanut butter sandwiches - everybody who knows anything knows that you have to start with crunchy peanut butter - smooth is no use to man nor beast. You then need some Marmite. I suspect that you ex-colonials don't have real Marmite so you may have to make do with a somewhat inferior "yeast extract" product." :eek:

Ian, we had a neighbor give us a jar of Marmite about three years ago. They were leery of using it, and wanted to use us as the guinea pigs. Well, we chickened out as well, it sits to this day in the pantry, what does it taste like? :D
Paul, try it. You won't like it the first time ,but after about the 20th time you find yourself starting to think its not so bad, then after about the 50th time you will actually like it. :)

[Andy Hoyt]

Paul, try it. You won't like it the first time ,but after about the 20th time you find yourself starting to think its not so bad, then after about the 50th time you will actually like it. :)
Frank - I'll guess that you're one of the moderators at this place.

http://www.marmite.com/

[Gary Curtis]

I found a photo at last. Hope this shows up. (I'm writing on a Macintosh)

Gary C.

[Dan Racette]

I'm on a mac too. make sure that it is named filename.jpg no spaces or other goofy characters.

[Gary Curtis]

I've tried unsuccessfuly for 20 minutes to upload a picture of the General sliding table. If any of you truly want it, send an email to

extiger@comcast.net

I'll attach the file to a return email. Happy hunting.

Gary

[Ian Barley]

Ian, we had a neighbor give us a jar of Marmite about three years ago. They were leery of using it, and wanted to use us as the guinea pigs. Well, we chickened out as well, it sits to this day in the pantry, what does it taste like? :D

I don't wanna hijack the thread but to answer your question Paul - It tastes nothing else. It is pretty savoury/meaty. Very strong. Spread it very very thinly - patchily even - on a slice of toast. Their advertising is based on the theme that if you love it you love it and if you hate it you hate it. Nobody "doesn't mind" it. We never travel anywhere without a jar in the suitcase so you can guess which camp we are in.

[Noel Hegan]

Paul, best leave it in the pantry or throw it out. It certainly doesn't improve with age.........

Noel

[Don Baer]

if you love it you love it and if you hate it you hate it.

Geez Ian I went to the web site and I can see why some would hate it. I looked at the ingredient and that stuff is yeast.. yuk. :eek: If I want some yeast I'll make sure it's mixed with some barley and hopps. :D

[Don Hutton]

Hi. What is the crosscut capacity of the General sliding table? I'm also curious what it costs if that is not too much to ask.

Thanks,
Don

[Andrew Ault]

Here is the picture Gary wanted to post:

[Gary Curtis]

My invoice says $840 for the slider. Because I'm a new woodworker, take sizes here with a grain of salt. The catalog says max capacity to RIGHT of blade is 50".

The online photo of the slider lists a 4x8 capacity. So I guess that would mean 48" to the LEFT of cut.

Here's a link to the General dealers throughout North America:
http://www.general.ca/pagetitre/ang/dist_us.html

Ask them questions.

General is offering a sale price right now that includes their Millennium package of right wing extension and rip fence extension and mobile base. The overall price was dropped to be better than the Powermatic 66. I think.

My sales rep said a newly released Kreg attachment will fit on the crosscut fence and give you more crosscutting. I think. I understand machines, but I have so much to learn about woodworking and terminology.

Until last week, I thought 4-4 was the musical beat for polkas. Who knew?

Gary

[Norman Hitt]

Ian, we outlawed Marmite in the colonies, only mad dogs and Englishmen would eat that stuff.

...................and Crazy Suisse Girls.

Even after living several years in Europe, I still couldn't believe "People" would actually package and Eat something that must have been designed to "Season" good Table scraps so they would taste bad enough that a Pig would eat it,:confused: but then there's those "English Folks" that eat things like Kidney pie, and the strongest smelling Mutton that one could ever imagine, etc.:D I think that maybe in their youth they spent too much time inhaling Hyde Glue.:o