Next TS setup from a portable contractors TS?

[Brian Sommers]

So I'm thinking of getting the next step up from a contractors TS but not yet with a full blown ICS TS

what would you all recommend?

[Frank Pratt]

SawStop PCS 3HP /w T-glide fence (not 'Premium' fence). If budget will not allow that, then Grizzly seems to be a good value at a lower price point. Of all their tools, the table saws seem to get the most positive comments.

[Dave Sabo]

So I'm thinking of getting the next step up from a contractors TS but not yet with a full blown ICS TS

what would you all recommend?


Would be helpful to know why you want to upgrade. And , also if we're talkin a plastic saw with a universal motor or a "contractors saw" with a 1 1/2 hp TEFC motor.

There's not much a cabinet saw is going to do for you that a true contractor's saw doesn't already do. Mostly they provide more rip capacity because of larger fences but that's easily remedied on a CS if you have the space. The other is a larger motor which is helpful if you're processing really thick hardwood stock. Otherwise 1.5 hp is adequate for 3/4 sheetgoods and hardwood.

Now, if what you have actually a "jobsite" saw - then I'd recommend getting a Contractors Saw with a TEFC motor and a cast iron top. If that's what you have already - then get a track saw. It will give you capability you don't have with a stationary saw.

[Jim Becker]

I'm of the opinion that "stepping up" with major tools in increments costs far more than just deciding on what you really want...make your "second" saw your "final" saw if you can. I've owned four table saws. The least expensive ones were really the most expensive ones. ;)

[Bill Dufour]

I had never heard of a ICS saw. MAN those cost some money! I think a new blade is around $1,000. My brothers shop had a guy next door who had one like that and carved statues with it. He said it was impressive to watch a real artist work with one. But he needed full ear, face, torso and leg protection in case of a slip up.
Bill D.

ON Edit: EBAY has new smaller blades for under $300. I had heard diamond pricing has come down a lot in the last five years or so as the patents have expired on making diamonds.

[andy bessette]

Unisaw is a good step up.

[scott spencer]

SawStop PCS 3HP /w T-glide fence (not 'Premium' fence). If budget will not allow that, then Grizzly seems to be a good value at a lower price point. Of all their tools, the table saws seem to get the most positive comments.

Ditto. The PCS 3hp with the T-Glide fence upgrade seems to be where the smart money is for value and performance IMO. Otherwise, the G1023RL or G0690 are both a heck of a bang for the buck starting near $1400 to your door.

[Kevin Smira]

I had never heard of a ICS saw. MAN those cost some money! I think a new blade is around $1,000. My brothers shop had a guy next door who had one like that and carved statues with it. He said it was impressive to watch a real artist work with one. But he needed full ear, face, torso and leg protection in case of a slip up.
Bill D.

ON Edit: EBAY has new smaller blades for under $300. I had heard diamond pricing has come down a lot in the last five years or so as the patents have expired on making diamonds.

Bill, pretty sure the reference to ICS meant industrial cabinet saw. Uses a "regular ole" table saw blade...

[Adam Herman]

You must be looking at the chainsaws for concrete?

not the subject of this thread.

[glenn bradley]

I'm of the opinion that "stepping up" with major tools in increments costs far more than just deciding on what you really want...make your "second" saw your "final" saw if you can. I've owned four table saws. The least expensive ones were really the most expensive ones. ;)

Truer words were never spoken. While its true that you can make a contractor saw cut pretty well at 90* with enough fettling. On nearly all of them your alignment is shot as soon as you tilt the blade. The design is for portability; its a contractor's saw. This was the jobsite saw before they started making the mini-saws that you see around the jobsite today.

I too took the multi-steps in tablesaws path. I had an excuse of sorts. I was re-entering the craft after decades of being away from it; I was not sure it would stick. Had I known it was something I was going to return to so enthusiastically, I would have gone straight to the more typical machine for furniture making; a 10", 3HP, cabinet saw. IMHO this is the 'entry level' machine if you want to use a tablesaw for the many, many tasks it can perform outside of just cutting something square and true. I would have easily saved $1000 and a lot of wasted time.

There is a repeated pattern of folks asking this question without supplying a budget. What do you have to spend, what do you want to build? All that stuff will get you a better and better answer.


I had never heard of a ICS saw.

Honest mistake. This is a problem when we use model numbers and acronyms specific to one manufacturer or facet of the craft. I try not to but, am guilty of this as well. I'm not trying to be vague or invoke the secret handshake; I just get a little lazy sometimes.

[Bill Dufour]

Well I looked up ICS saw and the first hits linked to a saw company called ICS so... I DID WONDER HOW THEY WOULD BE USED FOR WOOD. BUT I SUPPOSE SCULPTURES OF WOOD AND STONE COULD BE MADE WITH SOME OF THESE SAWS.

https://www.ohiopowertool.com/p-5496-ics-concrete-chain-saw-680es-14-gas-power-twinmax-32-chain-576153.aspx?gclid=CLSArOOowdMCFYqGfgodoSEPVw

[Roger Marty]

I just upgraded to a SawStop 1.75HP PCS. That was coming from a Ridgid R4512.

I was considering making fence and wing upgrades to the Ridgid, but decided the extra money for airbags was a good use of money.

I considered 3HP. In my last project I went through 8/4 hard maple with a 40t blade on my 1.5hp Ridgid. It worked. Can't imagine needing any more than that. And frankly 3HP slightly increased the risk of kickback.

[glenn bradley]

And frankly 3HP slightly increased the risk of kickback.

At the risk of starting a really interesting conversation, could you qualify that? :)

[Bill Dufour]

If you had said CS I would have figured it out. If there was no ICS saw company I might have figured it out. I have only seen them called a cabinet saw never seen the industrial added to the front. Seems a bit like harbor freifght where they ad industrial and heavy duty to there tool names. Then I see them on Craigs list as a "Industrial brand" drill press for sale. My aluminum pipe wrenches from HF are cast with Heavy Duty o nthe handle, that is the only words on them.
Bill

[Roger Marty]

At the risk of starting a really interesting conversation, could you qualify that? :)



Sure, it is probably possible to actually quantify it with some simulations/examples. For the same reasons that a 3HP motor is preferred by many because of the less likelihood of bogging down when cutting through thick stock, a 3HP motor is also more likely to kick back a piece of wood with higher velocity. I've read this anecdotally and it sure makes sense.

I started out with a really crappy 1/2 HP table saw. It was pretty much immune to kickback since the blade would just stop when wood would get bound up ;-). A 1.75HP motor will lose more energy compared to a 3HP motor when wood gets bound up before actually being kicked back.

That said, my reasoning for the 1.75HP was mainly out of convenience since my shop is small and not wired for 240V. But the fact that I've cut through 8/4 hard maple with a 1.5HP saw (with a 40t blade) gave me confidence that it will be "good enough". And I can upgrade for $500 in the future. And maybe it actually is slightly safer during a kickback situation ;-)

[andy bessette]

Avoid kickbacks by using a carbide blade, properly adjusting your fence, and using good technique, not by planning a future motor upgrade.

[Steve Reich]

While its true that you can make a contractor saw cut pretty well at 90* with enough fettling. On nearly all of them your alignment is shot as soon as you tilt the blade.

I agree very much with Glenn's observation here. I started this hobby about 4 and half years ago, and bought a contractor's TS off craigslist (an old Powermatic Artisan 63). I have put in a lot of hours and done a lot modifications to capture the dust, lock in the alignment, and otherwise bring it into fine fettle. One thing that I learned the hard way was that tilting the blade throws it out of alignment (I'm not sure how many people with contractor's saws realize this). Consequently, I never ever tilt the blade anymore. Instead, I have made about a half dozen angled sleds (set at different angles) that I use for making bevel cuts (a simple trick explained in Ian Kirby's The Accurate Table Saw). The machine meets my needs for now, but if I find myself doing more and more serious work, I will enter the market for an upgrade. I would echo Jim's advice and make the next saw your final saw (which is what I'll do if and when I reach the point that the current saw no longer meets my needs). That means carefully assessing your current needs and future aspirations and then getting the best machine that satisfies those needs. There's a lot of great advice on these forums, so if you can provide a sharper definition of those needs, as Glenn suggest, you'll get some more precise direction. And don't overlook Craigslist or estate auctions. You can get some sweet deals in both if you're willing to be patient for the right sale.