Wood for Painted Furniture

[Vince Rosypal]

Hello all,
What kind of wood is recommended / used for furniture pieces (night stand, coffee table) that will be painted?
I assume cheaper species.... maybe dimensional lumber or mdf .... certainly not going to paint tiger wood :p
My wife hasn't said yet but lets go with the assumption that she is looking for very smooth surface i.e no wood grain showing

Thank you

[Cary Falk]

Popular or soft maple

[Wayne Lomman]

Dense and resistant to damage. Grain is easy to fill but it is no fun when every knock puts a dent in your good work. So for me, not necessarily the cheapest. Tops and flat panels are ok in mdf. Edges are a bit softer but flats are good. Cheers

[Lee Schierer]

I use Tulip Poplar when a project is going to be painted. It shows virtually no wood grain after a couple of coats of finish.

[Andy Giddings]

I use Maple and Baltic Birch for those types of projects

[Rick Malakoff]

I use Maple and Baltic Birch for those types of projects

What Andy said, always worked for me!

[Rollie Kelly]

If you can conceal the edges, MDO plywood would work very well.

[John C Bush]

Alder is readily available out here. Harder surface than poplar, machines well, and is reasonable$$$.

[Doug Hepler]

Andy + Rick + me

[Jim Becker]

Popular or soft maple

This would be my advise, too, and is what I primarily use for the same. Mostly poplar for me because I have harvested several thousand board feet of our property over the years, but when I need a "finer finish", I opt for soft maple. (which isn't really "soft"...)

That said, sometimes the texture you want may force you to use other hardwoods that have a more open grain pattern. Since you'll be painting, you can select "less pretty" oak, ash or walnut with sapwood for this purpose.

[jack duren]

Popular is good for painted cabinets but not furniture pieces...

[Ted Reischl]

I don't know where you guys are getting your lumber, but around here Poplar and Maple are NOT "cheap" or "inexpensive".

Select the wood based on where it is used. For a coffee table with a lot of foot traffic around it, I would go with the more expensive maple.

Bedroom set? I have built three bedroom suites from the plans in WoodSmith. I used construction pine I scrounged at construction sites. One thing to understand is that using dimensional lumber usually means a lot of resawing. I do mine mostly on the table saw and if need be finish up on the band saw. Then it takes a trip through the drum sander.

Also, VERY important...dimensional lumber will move a lot when you resaw it, so it needs to be oversized and then allowed to move and get dried out, usually a day or so around here.

We are very easy on bedroom furniture, no kids running around the house, etc. It has been moved 4 times in the last 15 years and a few of the pieces got moving "dings" on them. No biggie, a bit of sanding and some touch up paint and they look great again. THAT is one of the really nice things about painting furniture.

Also, depending on what color you choose the details will show up really well with lighter colors.

If you use a good primer and paint you will actually toughen up the surface of pine. I used oil based stuff rather than latex. Latex seems to park right on the surface with no penetration. Yea, it is easy to clean up, etc, etc, dries faster. But IMHO it seems to take forever to really get dry. Two weeks after painting and if you put something on it the object gets a bit stuck to the surface of the paint. Oil does not do that.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth! If you can find a few construction sites those short pieces are pretty darn good for building furniture. Especially the 2 X 10 and 2 X 12 pieces. Nice straight grain, few if any knots.

[Steve Schoene]

Construction lumber, in my opinion, causes more problems than it saves money. First, it isn't dry--typically leaving the lumber yard at around 19% moisture, when furniture making woods should be somewhere around 8% to avoid problems as the furniture acclimatizes to heated and air-conditioned homes.

Secondly, dimensional construction lumber is softwood which means that it has hard latewood and soft early wood that presents problems in finishing, whether with paint or when using stains. It's easy to get zebra patterned grain. I prefer oil based enamel, but waterborne finishes can work OK. BUT with water borne you want top of the line 100% acrylic enamels. Low priced "latex' paints can exhibit "blocking" where items stick to the surface almost no matter how long it has dried. Good 100% acrylics won't exhibit blocking.

[Vince Rosypal]

Some great suggestions!
Up here our construction lumber is mostly spruce (I think) and very prone to movement. I can mill it to get what I need for sizes.
The lumber yard I mostly go to (Timber Town) has oak, maple, fir etc.... I will have to check which ones are the less expensive ones and try to get a price list.

Consolidated list from above:
Poplar
Tulip Poplar - not sure if we have that here
Soft Maple / Maple
Alder - I have some red alder in my shop form a partial pallet of off cuts I bought a long time ago.... I like the grain of it exposed

Baltic Birch
Mdf - for panels
MDO - if edges can be concealed

[Ted Reischl]

No one ever said working with construction grade material was easy, or pine is easy for that matter.

It takes some getting used to and a bit of planning ahead.

First off, the stuff from the lumberyard does tend to be moist, very moist. Letting it dry out a week or two improves the situation a lot. Lumber standing around drying out does not eat anything.

Second, it pays to purchase the wider stuff, like 2 X 8's unless you like knots.

But back to the movement. If you are building furniture that is based on frame and panel construction most of the pieces are 2 inches or less in width. So there is not some huge dramatic movement that goes on over that distance. Which was the whole point of frame and panel construction to begin with, minimize the effects of wood movement.

It was not so long ago that no home had air conditioning, yet they still built furniture that worked just fine. Where I grew up the humidity went from 20% in the winter to 100% in the summer. Yet, somehow the furniture did not fall apart, crack, etc.

Working with pine takes a little different skill set than working with hardwoods, that is all.

Besides, when we all get old and grey, that nice light pine furniture makes it easy to move things around.

Here is how I handle pine:

Cut to rough length. Resaw and leave about an 1/8 extra for warpage/shrinkage.

Let the stuff stand around a few days. Remember, smaller thinner pieces dry faster, but at rough size I have never hand a splitting problem.

Now start the finish sizing.

For things like legs use the outer edges of wide boards, the grain is usually very vertical. Use the middle stuff for secondary parts that will not be seen.

If a top needs to be made make sure it is fastened so it can expand and contract, have to do this with hardwood too.

I dunno, I have not had any problems building furniture out of pine ::::shrug:::: but I sure read a lot in magazines written by "experts" who do not seem able to figure out how to work with anything other than premium wood. Or maybe they own hardwood lumberyards? Well, that is not quite true...if you read the WoodSmith/ShopNotes magazines you see quite a bit of furniture built out of pine or "douglas" fir.

One wood I do try to avoid when it comes to furniture is Southern Yellow Pine. Only because it gums up the drum sander something fierce. I do use it if I am building outdoor furniture. Virtually all pressure treated lumber is SYP so there is no avoiding it.

358747

This is a garden bench I made recently. It is PT. I bought the lumber, rough cut it, let it dry for a month out in our nice hot sun. Then I built the bench. The picture was taken after the primer coat was applied. It is now a medium blue color. Hey, I do not pick colors, I am not in charge of that around here.

[Don Jarvie]

Everything I paint I use poplar. It's fairly inexpensive compared to hard maple or other woods. I buy rough lumber and kill it so I can get consistent thickness.

I paint everything with Benjamin Moore advance. It leaves a nice washable finish.

[Vince Rosypal]

No one ever said working with construction grade material was easy, or pine is easy for that matter.

It takes some getting used to and a bit of planning ahead.

First off, the stuff from the lumberyard does tend to be moist, very moist. Letting it dry out a week or two improves the situation a lot. Lumber standing around drying out does not eat anything.

Second, it pays to purchase the wider stuff, like 2 X 8's unless you like knots.

Bench looks great.... my bad but what is PT?


Everything I paint I use poplar. It's fairly inexpensive compared to hard maple or other woods. I buy rough lumber and kill it so I can get consistent thickness.

I paint everything with Benjamin Moore advance. It leaves a nice washable finish.

Sound like construction grade material might be an option
The softness is a consideration for me as I do have a child aka monkey :D

I did see a Youtube video of a counter built out of 2x10's that where specifically selected for the quarter sawn material on the outer edges of the board.... I believe his comment was "this center part will be for tomato stakes as that's all its good for"

[Joe Spear]

[QUOTE=Vince Rosypal;2683533]Some great suggestions!
Consolidated list from above:
Tulip Poplar - not sure if we have that here

I don't know where you are, but tulip poplar is also called yellow poplar, if you are aware of that in your area.

[Vince Rosypal]

is also called yellow poplar, if you are aware of that in your area.

I'm in Alberta Canada.... not familiar with yellow poplar but I am still learning

[Don Jarvie]

It's too hard to get good wood from construction grade material. It's going to have too many warps and twists. You'll spend more time trying to find good pieces plus you'll need to cut around the knots and defects. JMO.

[Dave Zellers]

Bench looks great.... my bad but what is PT?
Pressure Treated. Just like non treated construction lumber, there are some real gems in those piles. You just need to know how to spot them and how to treat them when you bring them home. I do it all the time.

[Vince Rosypal]

I have requested a price list from my local supplier so we will see what is more economical.
He did send one list but it was all dimensional spruce.....

[Vince Rosypal]

Thoughts on Aspen?

[Jim Becker]

Thoughts on Aspen?
Very soft and sometimes "fuzzy"...

[Vince Rosypal]

Very soft and sometimes "fuzzy"...

Thank Jim,
I see on wood-data base that Aspen and Poplar are very similar, thus the question on a possible alternative to the mostly recommended poplar
Workability is the same soft and fuzzy for both
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/poplar-cottonwood-and-aspen-whats-what/

Hi Heard back from my local supplier on costs (not sure if I am aloud to post costs so its a cost above cheapest)
I ask for the price on a 1x6 for difference species per linear foot and all S4S
Aspen = 0
Fir = 0
Oak = +0.70
Maple = +2.20

Large jump for maple!

[Joe Spear]

In the east, yellow poplar is often used for painted furniture and drawer boxes. It works very well. I have even used in with a natural varnished finish if the color and grain have a particularly attractive look. It is softer than maple but perfectly serviceable.

[Chris Hachet]

I use Tulip Poplar when a project is going to be painted. It shows virtually no wood grain after a couple of coats of finish.


Exactly...

[Jim Becker]

Thank Jim,
I see on wood-data base that Aspen and Poplar are very similar, thus the question on a possible alternative to the mostly recommended poplar

You have to be careful about what is being referred to as "poplar". As another member noted, Tulip Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron_tulipifera)), which is a big east coast native hardwood, is popular :) as a material for painted projects. (Although it's also great dyed and can mimic other more expensive hardwoods...it's heavily used in the mass market furniture industry) It shouldn't be confused with Poplar (Populus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus)) which includes aspens.

[Vince Rosypal]

You have to be careful about what is being referred to as "poplar". As another member noted, Tulip Poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron_tulipifera)), which is a big east coast native hardwood, is popular :) as a material for painted projects. (Although it's also great dyed and can mimic other more expensive hardwoods...it's heavily used in the mass market furniture industry) It shouldn't be confused with Poplar (Populus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus)) which includes aspens.

OH man.... the confusion of naming conventions.....
So Populus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus) which includes aspens are not so good for painting.... to soft?
That's unfortunate as I might be force to use more expensive "prettier" wood

[Don Jarvie]

I've made a bedroom set out of poplar for both my daughters and they've yet to dent it. If you have the ability to mill it buy rough lumber. This way you can make sure it's dead flat. S4S is fine if it's from a quality dealer but I'd look it over.

If the S4S has any bows, twists etc it's hard to get them flat so they glue up nice especially for the larger panels since its milled to 3/4. Rough comes 1 1/8 so you have room to work.

Obviously if you don't have a planer and jointer rough is a no go unless you like hand planing. If it's S4S then go select the boards yourself.

[Mel Fulks]

Lots of good stuff has been made from North Eastern white pine and its softer than poplar. Yes, poplar can be dented. Don't let people dent it.

[Jim Becker]

OH man.... the confusion of naming conventions.....
So Populus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populus) which includes aspens are not so good for painting.... to soft?
That's unfortunate as I might be force to use more expensive "prettier" wood
Vince, in most cases when folks refer to poplar for projects, they are talking about Tulip/Yellow Poplar not the "populus" family including Aspen. In my personal experience, the Aspen is a bit fuzzy. Home centers sometimes sell is as small project boards, however, if you want to test things out on a small scale. Tulip Poplar isn't expensive in the scope of things.

I will add that the Radiata Pine sold in many of the home centers as their Select/premium pine (no knots, etc.) is nice to work with and only slightly softer than Tulip Poplar in my experience. But since it's from the 'borg...it's also "not cheap"... Lumber is best acquired from a lumber seller, not a big-box retail store.

[Osvaldo Cristo]

Hello all,
What kind of wood is recommended / used for furniture pieces (night stand, coffee table) that will be painted?
I assume cheaper species.... maybe dimensional lumber or mdf .... certainly not going to paint tiger wood :p
My wife hasn't said yet but lets go with the assumption that she is looking for very smooth surface i.e no wood grain showing

Thank you

I think MDF would be great for painted furniture but I do not like its dust when worked (I do not have a shop vac)... I use high grade (no knots or cracks) pine. I love it and it is very comfortable to work with. It accepts also routing with no problems. I have several pieces made 25 years ago and they are like new, yet!

[Justin Ludwig]

I order paint grade soft maple (is cheaper because of discoloration and some voids). I used to order poplar but just don't trust it for longevity and durability (this is my own opinion and experience). Any voids or knots in the maple are filled with bondo after primer coat. I prefer to bondo after primer because it shows all voids and defects I need to correct and reduces steps to final finish.

We've painted alder and knotty alder with success. Knotty alder is $1.70 bf here, while FAS Alder is $3.30. It's currently by far the most popular wood in my location. "Poor man's cherry"

[Jim Becker]

I think MDF would be great for painted furniture but I do not like its dust when worked (I do not have a shop vac)... I use high grade (no knots or cracks) pine. I love it and it is very comfortable to work with. It accepts also routing with no problems. I have several pieces made 25 years ago and they are like new, yet!
MDF is great for certain components of painted pieces, but doesn't totally substitute for solid wood as it isn't very resistant to fasteners pulling out nor will it handle excessive stress that comes into play for certain furniture components. Caution also has to be used if there is a "moisture rich environment" involved. But that (factory) surface is great for paint!

[John Lankers]

Vince, nothing wrong with SPF lumber, Home Depot sells 2x12x16 with around 11% moisture content, all other places that I'm aware off are 17% and up. You can build beautiful furniture from construction lumber and as long as you finish it with care and treat it with the same respect as your cherry, walnut or mahogany furniture it will last you a lifetime. European craftsmen have used (and still do, more than ever) softwood for custom kitchen and furniture projects. If you're planning to paint your piece start with stabilizing the knots with epoxy, apply a seal coat of BIN sealer and then a few coats of oil based paint from Benjamin Moore or Cloverdale Paint. For a smooth surface with no wood grain showing use drywall spackle and sand it smooth. For a more natural finish start with a shellac sealer and then apply a few coats of bater based poly, you can add a small amount of water based stain to achieve a richer look. Whatever you do, a shellac seal coat is a must IMO to prevent sap from seeping through. Be aware that wide pine boards usually contain the heart of the tree (pith), it must be removed. Also, resawing 2x seldom turns out ok unless you're planning to build a barrel, better to remove equal amounts of wood from both sides. Especially now where the price of hardwood is through the roof (at least in our neck of the woods), softwood is a very viable option.

[Chris True]

A big box pine "2*12" is about a dollar a board foot if you figure it out. I just returned from a lumber run, paid $1.95 a bf for 4/4 $2.25 for 5/4 and $2.50 for 6/4. Not dirt cheap but particularly for the 4/4 stuff the better workability is worth it to me over construction lumber.

The thought of milling PT for furniture is horrifying <g>. Wear a hazmat suit and a mask if you are doing that :)

[Tom Bender]

If you spend a little more for the Poplar or Alder and it is clear and dry you will never want to save money by using 2x construction lumber again. It works and finishes beautifully (when painted). It doesn't look like much under varnish.

[John Lankers]

A big box pine "2*12" is about a dollar a board foot if you figure it out. I just returned from a lumber run, paid $1.95 a bf for 4/4 $2.25 for 5/4 and $2.50 for 6/4. Not dirt cheap but particularly for the 4/4 stuff the better workability is worth it to me over construction lumber.

The thought of milling PT for furniture is horrifying <g>. Wear a hazmat suit and a mask if you are doing that :)


I was quoted $5.20 cdn. (~$3.80 US) less than 2 weeks ago for 4/4 clear pine with a minimum order of 300 - 500 bf from a reputable wholesaler here in Alberta and $2.50 for knotty pine. 1x6x12 construction grade SPF goes for under $1.00 / bf but its wet, twisted and undersized; 2x12x16 SPF at the HD goes for $31 (~$22.70 US) per board and at least it is dry.
You just can't win.

[Vince Rosypal]

Thanks again everybody, looks like a couple different opinions on this topic.
I think one of the challenges that I face (and probably John Lankers) is that some of the species that maybe very common in the USA are just not available here.
The common ones available from Timbertown and Windsor Plywood are Pine, Aspen, Fir, Oak and Maple.
They do have other "fancy" species in stock but I am not about to paint them. The box stores are not as diverse.
I had an opportunity to go into Windsor yesterday and talk to the guys there and check out the stock..... for S4S the 5 above where in various sizes except Aspen and pine only in 1x material
They did have some rough lumber there in oak, maple, sepia and a birch/alder pile...... If I had the time (kinda kicking my butt I didn't make the time) I should have pick through the birch/alder pile as it was a pretty good price.... maybe next weekend

My thoughts on MDF.... FWIW..... I have worked with it a lot on speaker and subwoofer builds
The dust is a major pain and has resulted in me being way more focused on dust collection.... I just got a track saw and mfd dust what one of the driving factors in my decisions to get one.
For speakers we have a 6 sided box which can lock everything together.... but like Jim Becker said it is very poor with fasteners
The cut edges of MDF are very susceptible to damage and chipping..... thus I would wrap the edges with real wood
The flat sides do paint like a dream and are very tough.... takes a good amount of force to dent

SPF lumber
Looks like some people are pro and some con
I'm still on the fence.....
Every board (mostly 2x4's) that I have gotten from a box store has had movement to some degree.... sometimes workable other times brutal
However for the smaller projects that I am talking about I think that I can take our any movement that occurs from drying

John, where are you getting lumber in Alberta?

[John Lankers]

Vince, I get all my hardwood lumber from PJ White in Calgary, they are a wholesaler but do cater to the public. I usually phone my order in and have a local trucking company pick it up for me.
I have had no success with SPF lumber from local retailers/home stores (to wet, to crooked), only 2x12x16 at Home Depot, if you have a moisture meter take it with you on the next shopping trip. Your best chance of finding perfect boards is when they take down a new skid from the rack. However, I will most likely get my softwood lumber from a small local sawmill from now on and dry it here at home.
Ultralight MDF is a good choice for painted (raised) panels if you can control the dust.

[Ted Reischl]

I am in the process of building a bookcase. Making it out of that cupped, twisted, bowed, sappy, pithy big box construction lumber. It will probably collapse or tip over because it will be so crooked. Maybe I can get a video of it falling apart and tipping over?

Seriously, I just completed the finish milling and all the mortise and tenons for the frame and panel construction. I a still looking for all those faults some of the folks have posted about. Maybe I need new glasses? I was careful when selecting. I did wind up with one twisted board somehow. Noticed it when I put it up on the RAS, so it was set aside and chopped up for smaller pieces. If a board feels heavy, I reject it. Those are the ones that have caused me fits in the past. Any boards with weird swirly grain are also set aside.

[Vince Rosypal]

Thanks John, always great to add another potential source for wood to the list. Unfortunately, I do not have a moisture meter as of yet. I typically look at weight, temperature to the touch and visual indicators for dampness.... not very accurate but it does weed out a lot of boards.

Thanks Ted, good to hear you are having success with SPF lumber...... the impression I am getting from comments and feedback is..... is the juice worth the squeeze?

[John C Cox]

One thing you see with commercial furniture thats painted... They have no qualms about mix-matching based on what the specific parts need and the duty they will see...

Match the species of wood to the function you need... Its not uncommon to see oak/ash legs, poplar/aspen/soft maple stringers, and veneered plywood flat panels. A thick coat of pore filler/bondo and paint...

They may even faux grain it to make it look like its the same sort of wood.

[lowell holmes]

I have a moisture meter. I use it so much I can't find it.
I guess I really don't miss it. :)

[Ted Reischl]

Thanks John, always great to add another potential source for wood to the list. Unfortunately, I do not have a moisture meter as of yet. I typically look at weight, temperature to the touch and visual indicators for dampness.... not very accurate but it does weed out a lot of boards.

Thanks Ted, good to hear you are having success with SPF lumber...... the impression I am getting from comments and feedback is..... is the juice worth the squeeze?

Definitely worth the "squeeze" around here. We only have two places that sell hardwood and they are very small places, limited selection. They will happily sell me maple with knots in it for about $8 BF. Walnut? Go see the bank for a second mortgage.

One thing to keep in mind is that some of the prices you see quoted here may be for lumber straight from the mill, not dried, rough, no straight edges. I have worked with that stuff in the past. It is about the same as breaking down construction lumber in terms of "squeeze".

Don't get me wrong, I like working with hardwood. But a lot of guys get all dreamy thinking everything they build is going to be some sort of "heirloom" and must last forever. The truth of the matter is that when most people pass on their relatives already have houses full of stuff so they have no idea where to go with that "heirloom" bedroom set. Or it is not their style, etc. Ever notice, you do not see everyday regular furniture sitting around in museums?

[Vince Rosypal]

One thing you see with commercial furniture thats painted... They have no qualms about mix-matching based on what the specific parts need and the duty they will see...

Match the species of wood to the function you need... Its not uncommon to see oak/ash legs, poplar/aspen/soft maple stringers, and veneered plywood flat panels. A thick coat of pore filler/bondo and paint...

They may even faux grain it to make it look like its the same sort of wood.
Thanks John, good point on the mix-matching species in commercial furniture


I have a moisture meter. I use it so much I can't find it.
I guess I really don't miss it. :)
LOL


Definitely worth the "squeeze" around here. We only have two places that sell hardwood and they are very small places, limited selection. They will happily sell me maple with knots in it for about $8 BF. Walnut? Go see the bank for a second mortgage.

One thing to keep in mind is that some of the prices you see quoted here may be for lumber straight from the mill, not dried, rough, no straight edges. I have worked with that stuff in the past. It is about the same as breaking down construction lumber in terms of "squeeze".

Don't get me wrong, I like working with hardwood. But a lot of guys get all dreamy thinking everything they build is going to be some sort of "heirloom" and must last forever. The truth of the matter is that when most people pass on their relatives already have houses full of stuff so they have no idea where to go with that "heirloom" bedroom set. Or it is not their style, etc. Ever notice, you do not see everyday regular furniture sitting around in museums?
Thanks for the feedback Ted.... the furniture I am building to paint certainly will not be heirloom

[Ted Reischl]

Vince, I mentioned that I was building a bookcase. Here it is:

359750

This is typical frame and panel construction. The only man made material is the back. I recommend doing frame and panel when working with construction lumber. It avoids a lot of issues (not just with pine, but all wood) which is why the old timers used the method in the first place.

I have about 35 bucks in it. A nice pile of scrap from the resawing that will be useful for other small projects.

This is built with mortise and tenon construction.

[Chris True]

Maple box store plywood + poplar face frame and pine crown. HVLP sprayed latex primer and topcoat.

[Vince Rosypal]

Vince, I mentioned that I was building a bookcase. Here it is:

359750

This is typical frame and panel construction. The only man made material is the back. I recommend doing frame and panel when working with construction lumber. It avoids a lot of issues (not just with pine, but all wood) which is why the old timers used the method in the first place.

I have about 35 bucks in it. A nice pile of scrap from the resawing that will be useful for other small projects.

This is built with mortise and tenon construction.
Thanks Ted for the follow up, looks great!


Maple box store plywood + poplar face frame and pine crown. HVLP sprayed latex primer and topcoat.
Nice job Chris
Means of painting is another area I need to look at..... one day

[Vince Rosypal]

I decided to try some Aspen and Spruce (aka dimensional lumber) I'm going to build two night stands one out of each species.

One problem I discovered last night is that although I thought I was carful about selecting a good 2x10 it turns out it is wetter that I thought (no meter...subjective)
Not sure of the best way to proceed.... I have it cut down to over sized length and was thinking to rip it to rough widths, sticker it and let it dry a few days.... or should I let it dry now before ripping it?

Or if there is another thread that already covers this please let me know
Thanks