Fiber Laser Applications & Businesses

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey guys,

Our business is based on Co2 lasers. But recently someone asked me about metal marking for their machine shop.
Apart from Cermark and the like, I am interested in the capabilities and applications of a fiber laser (Epilog G2).

This is a completely new area of marking/engraving for us and I wanted to see if someone here could shed light on
how useful a fiber is and how easy it is to acquire new means of work for it. It would seem to me it might be a little harder?

Thanks,
Kirk

[Tim Bateson]

Kirk,

I started with the CO2 (Epilog Mini 35 watt), expanded to Sublimation, expanded to Vinyl, expanded to Vehicle Wraps. Meanwhile I was turning away more & more metal work. Further research showed a mammoth size hole in my local market place. I purchased the Epilog Fusion M2 in June '15. My business is now 60% Fiber & 40% (maybe less) CO2. I've dropped all of the other stuff (I have some lightly used equipment to get rid of). I've removed my phone number from both websites and still turn away work on a daily basis. Looking at China for my next Fiber, sometime by the end of Summer.

Now for reality... I found a gigantic hole in my local market & filled it. You go to the next city, next state or another country & what I've done may or may not work. The Fiber is much more difficult to learn as compared to the CO2. I've made my share of mistakes with the Fiber, even ticked off a few customers. I've had to learn the limitations of my Fiber too. I no longer recommend the M2 for it's Fiber capabilities... or lack there of. I was sold capabilities this machine just does not possess. I think Epilog is a fantastic CO2 company with Superior support. They just haven't figured out the Fiber yet. The G2 looks to be a step in the right direct, but not hearing raving reviews from anyone except the sales folks. Do more research before you spend those big bucks on a Fiber Laser. Different Fiber machines for different Fiber jobs - depending what you plan to tackle.

[John Lifer]

Kind of a big leap into a G2 in my opinion. I added a way cheaper Chinese fiber that cost probably 7 or 8 percent of a Low end G2. Ive found that the fiber isn't that hard to work with. A lot more things you can change for different looks on the various materials. Cermark will still be used for a lot of stuff, guys here will tell you that.
Oh, and I'll agree with Tim on the G2, it is supposed to be able to engrave a 24" x24" area with a 30 or 50 galvo head watt fiber. Ain't happening except maybe to minor mark, anneal a surface sure won't cut it. No pun intended.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Tim, John,

Thanks a ton for taking the time here and write some views on this world.

Tim, that's kind of an inspiring note about 60% of your business now being fiber.
I'm not sure how much you want to share but, is your work more industrial b2b, or do you do a lot of b2c type stuff

Tim, you said the G2 50 watt wont do anything more than minor mark? What do you mean by that. It looked like the G2 was achieving some really deep markings in the videos..

358602



What wattage of Chinese fiber did you add to your shop. Care to give me the brand? I'm open to importing a Chinese laser over the G2. At least at first to start exploring without being so much in debt.

THanks guys!

[John Lifer]

No, that was me. I'm saying that they advertise the 50 watt to have area of 576 square inches that it can engrave. If you look at other specifications for a galvo fiber laser to get close to that you need a 300 watt machine (Weike 0640 has process area of 14"x24") Even their 60 watt open has optional area of only 12"x12". Maybe Epilog has invented something new for Galvos, but I haven't seen it. It might can 'mark', but ever so lightly unless you are moving something.
And at the NBM show they were marking small stuff one at a time..... Just say'n, look in person and make sure it will do what YOU want it to do before you commit.....

[Rodne Gold]

You can buy a really good 20-30w fiber for $5k or a little more EX china.. and it works the same as any other ... with that pricing.. everyone can now do metal marking at low cost , all it takes is $6k and a garage.... so dont outprice yourself with having to service a big capital debt.

I have a business which has a huge customer base for laser engraving..my 20w fiber has paid for itself just doing plastic engraving laminate tags..BUT even having that huge customer base it has taken 7-8 months for the fiber to be busy on metals.. but at the $5k I paid for it.. its not a huge concern.
all I have to do is $7 a day worth of work to amortise the machine over 3 years.. even on a quiet day we do 10x that..
You have a customer base .. dont go buy the uberexpensive model and stress yourself .. get the $5k option and give it time..see if it takes off

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Rodne,

Thanks. That is very good advice and I think I will take it.

John, I'm going to Epilog next month to check out the machine. I'll update the thread and maybe do some videos for you guys.
But it's unlikely I'd ever finance that thing. Rodne is really correct on that. But I still want to see what all the fuss is about.

Also I think they have developed some kind of technology that allows them to engrave the larger areas. Some kind of super fast
auto focusing technology

Kirk

[Tim Bateson]

... that's kind of an inspiring note about 60% of your business now being fiber.
I'm not sure how much you want to share but, is your work more industrial b2b, or do you do a lot of b2c type stuff...

I saw a similar example before my purchase. It was either done on a different machine or was lasered continuously for days. I do mostly industrial b2b with maybe 25% b2c. My customers b2b & b2c all found me. I do no advertising and no sales calls. The internet however is a powerful, & priceless tool. My Fiber work consists of Military spec jobs, SpaceX, Aircraft brake pads, Weapons of all types, and misc industrial metals.

Having bad mouthed the M2, a job I am current working is perfect for this machine. I place the material in a jig & send 2 jobs to the laser. Press Start and a quick CO2 job runs, hit Start again and a much longer Fiber Marking job runs. This has cut production time for this material down by almost half.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Awesome

I think I'm going to get a CNC machine instead for our shop. I would LOVE to do more industrial b2b stuff but no way I can justify 60k Canadian for a G2 fiber machine.
That's just stupid money

As for the example image I showed. It might be worth it if it could actually do that depth in a decent speed.
Apparently it's using some interesting innovated technologies but we will have to see. I'll know more after I visit epilog in a couple weeks and see

I'll update the thread

[Bill George]

You can get a 50 Watt fiber with all the add on features you want and never be over $10k for a Chinese import. Most of the ones sold in the US / Canada unless they are made here or in Canada and say so, are imports and marked up.... a lot.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Yea, that might be the way to go for us. At least to get established in this new market vertical

Hey have you guys heard of FiberStar Laser?

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Also, this is a 50 watt fiber. Looks like it cut through that steel pretty fast and well.. so maybe the G2 "deep" engraving is
not far off..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3stbmwmvK-U

[Tim Bateson]

The Fiber I'm currently researching is: http://www.xtlaser.com/product-item/mini-type-fiber-laser-marking-machine/

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Damn.. this is lookin' pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Anu4yKPZK8

Looks like it's made by Raycus.. they're pretty good fiber laser manufacturer in China...

I would consider this as well. The company seems ok. Do you have a price they gave you? I can't find

[Rodne Gold]

Typical prices are:
20w round $5k door to door (airfreight)
30w - add about $1500
50w , round $11k door to door

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Rodne

Thanks. That is actually pretty good. I'm Canadian so i'd have to do a convert but even so, that's still really good.

I've been looking also at LaserStar.. look like a company that has extremely good marketing

https://www.laserstar.net/laserstar-tv/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqmDOBtixHU

[Bill George]

So is LaserStar a Importer? I really suggest searching this forum for fiber lasers, there are so many informative posts both good and bad on certain brands.

[Tim Bateson]

The 50w xtlaser is quoted at 13.5k (US), which includes a case/box. I don't need the liability of an open Fiber laser in my shop. I'm still waiting to find someone in the US with experience using it.
Included:
1. Laser source: Raycus laser source.
2. Galvo head: SINO brand from Beijing.
3. F-theta lens: Wavelength Singapore, 110*110mm
4. Control board: JCZ original one
EZCAD software newest version, support windows7 64 bit,windows 8 and windows 10.
(There are many copy version in market, low price, also low quality, not stable, only support windows7 32 bit, can not update.)
5. outside red light, more easy for marking focus.
6.2D working table.
7. Protective glasses.
8. Full enclosed cover.

[John Lifer]

They say made in US, I expect they import the actual laser components and build cases here. They use EzCad, even though they market the software under their name........
Would a US company actual include Japanese and Hebrew in their fonts? Sure isn't standard Windows.
But pricing is pretty good... and Support would be much better than direct import.

[Bill George]

And even assembled in USA is a start and US support a big plus. Kind of like Rabbit USA.