PDA

View Full Version : WI-FI Question



Sean Troy
04-19-2017, 8:16 PM
My daughter is at college and wants WI-FI in her apt. There are either net jacks and they work fine for plugging in her laptop but she would like to be able to run her TV and Apple TV plus WI-FI for her phone.

Is it as simple as plugging in a WI-FI router to the wall jack and set it up from there? Thanks for any help, Sean

Lee Schierer
04-19-2017, 10:11 PM
I would check with the college before broadcasting their network via WiFi. They may have some concerns or may even help.

Sean Troy
04-19-2017, 10:44 PM
I would check with the college before broadcasting their network via WiFi. They may have some concerns or may even help.
They can have their own WI-FI routers. She's been using her room mates but she is going home for the summer and my daughter is staying for the summer for work.

Dan Hulbert
04-20-2017, 9:01 AM
The Wi-Fi router should be just a plug and play with an Ethernet connection. When I've changed my router at home, it takes the provider a while to recognize the new device, so you may have to wait a bit for it to fully connect.

Sean Troy
04-20-2017, 9:24 AM
The Wi-Fi router should be just a plug and play with an Ethernet connection. When I've changed my router at home, it takes the provider a while to recognize the new device, so you may have to wait a bit for it to fully connect.

Am I correct that I would plug the wi-fi router into the wall, connect laptop to router and then go through setup?

Bert Kemp
04-20-2017, 9:32 AM
I don't even think you have to plug the laptop in. Its wi fi enabled , should pick up the wi fi and connedct or set up anyway

Sean Troy
04-20-2017, 9:53 AM
I don't even think you have to plug the laptop in. Its wi fi enabled , should pick up the wi fi and connedct or set up anyway

I thought it had to be connected to the laptop or pc to go through security setup?

Jim Becker
04-20-2017, 11:06 AM
If the current provider permits/provides multiple IP addresses on the Ethernet connection, then installing a WiFi Access Point (not a "router...) should be no issue and multiple devices will be able to. If they only provide a single IP address, but permit adding a router/access point, then the apartment will have it's own private network that uses the single provider IP address as a "WAN" address.

The first step is to ascertain if having multiple devices is permitted and then what's the best method. (Most "routers" that have WiFi can be setup to just be an access point without the "routing" function if an existing device is going to be used.

Sean Troy
04-20-2017, 11:45 AM
Thanks all for the help. I'll double check with her room mate to see what protocol she went through to set up the wi-fi so i know whether to get a router or access point. Thanks, Sean

Mike Henderson
04-20-2017, 12:15 PM
If you install one of those consumer "routers" (which are technically not a router) you won't have any problems. Those "routers" include Network Address Translation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation) (NAT) so the network the "router" is connected to only sees one IP address. Behind the box the local network uses non-routable addresses (like 192.168.xxx.xxx). Those addresses are translated to the one IP address and a port number. So all activity behind the "router" goes out on the one IP address that the rest of the network sees.

Mike

[And those consumer "routers" are very easy to set up. The modern ones usually have a script that takes you through the setup process.]

Jim Becker
04-20-2017, 4:42 PM
Weeelll....I would kinda disagree that the consumer products called routers are not routers given they perform layer 3 routing between two subnets. While the internal network is certainly NAT-ed and uses private address space, it's still a separate subnet from the WAN side. :)

Matt Marsh
04-21-2017, 9:02 AM
Isn't this a college owned housing/dormitory apartment? I find it odd that the college doesn't already provide Wi-Fi. At the university where I work, Wi-Fi has been in place for years. Private routers are strictly forbidden here. The IT department regularly walks the dormitories and apartments, easily detecting the signals, and very quickly shuts down any private routers found.

Sean Troy
04-21-2017, 2:39 PM
Isn't this a college owned housing/dormitory apartment? I find it odd that the college doesn't already provide Wi-Fi. At the university where I work, Wi-Fi has been in place for years. Private routers are strictly forbidden here. The IT department regularly walks the dormitories and apartments, easily detecting the signals, and very quickly shuts down any private routers found.
On college property but not run by them. They just provide hard wired service internet through wall jacks.

Brian Elfert
04-21-2017, 8:19 PM
Isn't this a college owned housing/dormitory apartment? I find it odd that the college doesn't already provide Wi-Fi. At the university where I work, Wi-Fi has been in place for years. Private routers are strictly forbidden here. The IT department regularly walks the dormitories and apartments, easily detecting the signals, and very quickly shuts down any private routers found.

How do they sort out permitted versus non-permitted WIFI signals? Most smartphones can do WIFI hotspots now and there are even WIFI hotspots in cars now. My employer's buildings are in urban environments so there are dozens and dozens of WIFI SSIDs visible. It can make it hard to know if someone plugged a rogue access point into the corporate network.

It seems strange in this day and age to offer hardwired Internet, but not WIFI. It isn't that expensive anymore to do a decent WIFI network with equipment better than consumer grade.

Sean Troy
04-22-2017, 10:16 AM
Nothing to sort out. They actually do have wi-fi but it is so spotty and weak everyone just has there own if they want it.

Jim Becker
04-22-2017, 11:10 AM
How do they sort out permitted versus non-permitted WIFI signals?

The scanning equipment used by IT departments, etc., is more sophisticated than our consumer devices and can sort out rogue networks, even if they are hidden, etc., as well as physically locate the rouge access points within the environment they are scanning.

Brian Elfert
04-22-2017, 11:37 AM
The scanning equipment used by IT departments, etc., is more sophisticated than our consumer devices and can sort out rogue networks, even if they are hidden, etc., as well as physically locate the rouge access points within the environment they are scanning.

I work in IT and do some of the networking. (Not really much with the WIFI.) My employer has Cisco enterprise WIFI gear that can even overpower rogue access points if set up that way. We primarily look for SSIDs that are similar to ours that are trying to trick employees into connecting.

At our manufacturing plant it is not unusual to see between 50 and 100 SSIDs due to all the apartment buildings. I don't know how we would determine that one of those SSIDs was a WIFI router someone connected to our corporate network versus a legitimate SSID not connected to our network.

glenn bradley
04-22-2017, 12:46 PM
The scanning equipment used by IT departments, etc., is more sophisticated than our consumer devices and can sort out rogue networks, even if they are hidden, etc., as well as physically locate the rouge access points within the environment they are scanning.

I run about 3000 radios on a 1200 acre campus and whether it is a wireless router, laptop, phone or wired connection, nothing (other than 'internet only access' for guests) gets on my network without my explicit permission. The methods of restricting what and how things can get on a data network will bore most folks to death. Others are steering you right in that there is a website or phone number for you or your daughter to use to get an answer to your question from the institution.

I won't comment on networks that allow random connections, lack security or even halfway decent administration. Let's just say if you were able to get on my network without permission, you wouldn't stay connected long enough to browse to Sawmill Creek ;). For your daughter's sake I hope her institution takes things just as seriously.

Brian Elfert
04-22-2017, 3:35 PM
My employer's corporate WIFI has pretty tight security. In an ideal world all network jacks would either be MAC locked or have some other requirement before a device can connect. In a world where it is not uncommon to see dozens of legitimate SSIDs how do you determine if one of those SSIDs is not legit and is a router some rogue employee plugged into an open network jack?

glenn bradley
04-22-2017, 4:35 PM
My employer's corporate WIFI has pretty tight security. In an ideal world all network jacks would either be MAC locked or have some other requirement before a device can connect. In a world where it is not uncommon to see dozens of legitimate SSIDs how do you determine if one of those SSIDs is not legit and is a router some rogue employee plugged into an open network jack?


The short answer is 'we have tools for that'. We have researchers and visiting faculty and all sorts of wandering user community nightmares. There is no single tool or method and this discussion could get really out of hand really quick ;-) In the wired world, one method I use is to generally hold the MAC address in stasis, allowing only specific handshakes with specific protocols almost as a proxy (but not exactly) until certain criteria can be established. This precludes even local LAN connectivity until the requirements are satisfied. This all takes just a moment but, in my world a lot of things happen in the big fat space of time we call 1 second.

If you've ever played with Sniffer or Wireshark for protocol analysis, we have something very similar but, tailored for the wireless airspace. Protocol analysis for wireless is handy but, location services and radio frequency analysis factor in. Like any job, there is an industry of tool-makers willing to sell you their goodies.

Jim Becker
04-22-2017, 5:19 PM
And I happen to actually sell some pretty sophisticated identity management that assists folks like Glenn to do their jobs. There are not only ways to detect things, but also to very exactly limit who can get to what these days and without the complicated ACLs required with what I'll term "legacy" networking gear from the "big Gorilla".

Sean Troy
04-23-2017, 11:17 PM
Got her Wi Fi setup with Linksys Wi Fi router. She uses the 5ghz channel and she is set up for her guests to use the 2.4 ghz channel. I did a speed test and she is averaging. 67.3m download and 9.47m up load. Average after 4 different tests. I'm pretty darn impressed. I had no idea how good the speed was there. Streaming was fast and flawless on her Apple TV. No lag or buffering.

Jim Becker
04-24-2017, 9:50 AM
Interesting that the performance isn't more symmetrical given the Ethernet drop to the apartment...the service to the building must be from a "cable" type provider, rather than the University or something like that.