Bad Rowmark LaserMax results

[Keith Downing]

I've done a lot with the samples I got from Rowmark and JDS a couple years ago, but haven't had any significant orders until now. So, I "sprung" for a couple sheets of the good stuff: Rowmark Lasermax in 1/16 and 1/32.

I will admit this is my first time doing black cap with white acrylic. So maybe my settings weren't as dialed in as I thought.

Or maybe I just need someone to give me a full run down of how they do Rowmark if that's easier, since it's certainly possible I'm missing something along the way. Here is a breakdown of what I'm doing (and the results are sub par at best).

First though, here was my test run with varying settings using only one pass. You can see that none are viable, despite the cut getting pretty deep by the end.

Note: I did black out the one where I tried two passes, to avoid confusion:

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As you can see, by the bottom row I'm getting plenty of depth, but still not clean results.

Also note, I am doing this with my exhaust on, but NO air assist. With any air assist at all (even 10lbs) I'm getting results that are completely grey fill in the white; obviously from the particles settling on the fresh white.

Doing 2 passes the results are better; but still not good enough. Here is my process right now, and the results below.



Leave the protective plastic on the rowmark.
With air off, laser the first pass 180 mm/s and 24% power.
Use masking tape to clean up the area gently.
Laser a second pass with the same settings (is this my mistake?)
Mask completely and cut.


I have tried about 5 different samples, cleaning with everything from soapy water to DNA, to windex. Nothing is helping significantly, and the alcohol based stuff is making the thin little lines on the font "melt".

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I really thought the Rowmark was able to be rastered in one pass with the correct settings. Others seem to have stated the same in their threads comparing products. Are my settings just off? Is there a better product?

Not sure what responses I'll get with the holiday weekend, but any input would be much appreciated.

[John Lifer]

I'm NO expert, but I've run probably a dozen sheet of various colors and makes, Rowmark, Gemini and Southeastern.
My process is to REMOVE film. Some may run with it on, but I've not had good results. So it is pulled back or removed entirely for full sheet.
I process engraving at 300mm/s and 28 to 35% of my 80watt. Usually about 30 is right.
ONE pass.
I use top corner as origin so it runs from top to bottom. I've moved occasionally to center start, which goes bottom to top, no real difference.
Air OFF on Engraving. Turn it on for Vector cuts.
Vector cutting at 10-12mm/s and 35% is usual, depending on thickness 1/16 or 0.060 is most of what I've used.
I have started to drop power on vector and break things out rather than cut all the way thru, especially if multiples.
A Second pass might help if you have redeposits, lower the power to 25% or you will be deep. And I do have exhaust on, otherwise I can't stay in room!
Hope it helps!

Oh, clean up with DNA on edges where the dust might settle around cutting. It DOESN"T help in the lettering!!!!
maybe soap and water just a bit, but nothing cuts the residue if it was melted back in.

[Joe Pelonio]

I agree, air off to engrave, on to cut. With my 45 watt Epilog I have probably done several hundred sheets of various Lasermax colors. Red has been a bit problematic and required two passes, but not black/white. Inconsistent results over the area of the sheet usually means table not level or poor mirror alignment. Check for scraps fallen under your vector grid, if using one. I clean before and after engraving/cutting with Sprayway Glass cleaner from Costco. I also apply transfer tape before cutting when the top surface is white, to prevent it bleeding color from the cut edges.

[Keith Downing]

Thanks for the input guys, that gives me a few things to try.

Joe, I will check the alignment again if I can't get this cleared up soon, but I'm having no problems with wood or RTIC cups right now. Just the Rowmark.

Also, are you saying you see little or no grey material in your white when doing only one pass? Can you perhaps post an example of something with a fine font that you did in one pass on black/white? I'd be curious to see just how good of results I can be expecting. And also how deep you have to go to achieve said results in one pass.

[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks for the input guys, that gives me a few things to try.

Joe, I will check the alignment again if I can't get this cleared up soon, but I'm having no problems with wood or RTIC cups right now. Just the Rowmark.

Also, are you saying you see little or no grey material in your white when doing only one pass? Can you perhaps post an example of something with a fine font that you did in one pass on black/white? I'd be curious to see just how good of results I can be expecting. And also how deep you have to go to achieve said results in one pass.
Slower speed will also help, but go too slow and the material may start to warp. Sorry I have no pictures readily available but I did hundreds of small text white on black labels for a large yacht, white lettering on black, some in 8 point font Ariel, but also 10 point Times New Roman for some ship crane control panels. These pictures show some 12 point helvetica, and where I did some tiny 3/8"X1/2" labels that had the 8 point.

[Mark Sipes]

Here is a sample I run all day long, Single Pass 500 DPI 100P 60S 800HZ

http://www.peninsulatrophy.com/PT2/GRAPHICS/ebay%20027.png

.

[Kev Williams]

Ran this off as a test--
I found these pre beveled pieces in my BIL's stash, they're 2-1/2" x 3/4", and it's old material, if you look close from the top left down diagonally, you can see the faint gray of the goo from the old masking that stayed on.
I just moved this piece from machine to machine and ran it using my basic black Rowmark settings for each machine.
I used Goudy Handtooled font in line 1 just to see if the black space within the letters would remain, for the most part it didn't, other than the first S.
Second font is Albertus bold.
Height progression of each 3 letters of text top row:
.169, .148, .127, .116, .106, .095
Bottom line is .134 -- all as measured by Corel
I just ran these on each machine and the only cleanup at all was I hit them with compressed air....
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Keith, as I look at your pics close up, what I'm seeing is a slight backlash issue, where the left/right sweeps and right/left sweeps aren't lining up as well as they could be.
Not sure if that's adjustable in your software or not, but I would hope so. It is in my LaserSoft/PHcad software, and I spent many hours tweaking the Triumph's backlash settings, As you can see, this huge, 80w glass laser designed for cutting can hold it's own against both my western machines :)

Another issue I see in your pics, and I'm not sure how to describe it or a remedy (Sheldrake? ;) ) -- but it appears the laser is firing very hard at the edges of the engraving and not so much in the middle. Not sure if the hard edge is the lead-in edge, or the trailing edge-- or both? If I had to guess I'd say it's a lead-in issue, as the laser initially fires. This may make it LOOK like a backlash issue when maybe it isn't...

I believe this issue can be adjusted in software, one of the cyptic 'start acc acc' types of settings, but I have no clue of which or where to start...

In the meantime, there's the obvious stuff, clean lens and mirrors, and good focus-- You might experiment with focus on Rowmark, it's less forgiving than some other materials...

[Keith Downing]

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Keith, as I look at your pics close up, what I'm seeing is a slight backlash issue, where the left/right sweeps and right/left sweeps aren't lining up as well as they could be.
Not sure if that's adjustable in your software or not, but I would hope so. It is in my LaserSoft/PHcad software, and I spent many hours tweaking the Triumph's backlash settings, As you can see, this huge, 80w glass laser designed for cutting can hold it's own against both my western machines :)

Another issue I see in your pics, and I'm not sure how to describe it or a remedy (Sheldrake? ;) ) -- but it appears the laser is firing very hard at the edges of the engraving and not so much in the middle. Not sure if the hard edge is the lead-in edge, or the trailing edge-- or both? If I had to guess I'd say it's a lead-in issue, as the laser initially fires. This may make it LOOK like a backlash issue when maybe it isn't...

I believe this issue can be adjusted in software, one of the cyptic 'start acc acc' types of settings, but I have no clue of which or where to start...

In the meantime, there's the obvious stuff, clean lens and mirrors, and good focus-- You might experiment with focus on Rowmark, it's less forgiving than some other materials...

Thanks Kev.

I'm about to head back out and try some more things. One thing I noticed right off the bat is your scan gap is .05. I had read somewhere to start with .10 and work from there; and have been using .09. So you're doing quite a few more passes than I am. I'll try going smaller as well and see if that helps.

I'm also going to try without the paper on top. I assume that will bring my settings down to much closer to what everyone else seems to recommend.

[John Lifer]

I've been using 0.08 down to 0.06 scan gap for plastics

[Kev Williams]

scan gaps--

.02 = 1270 lines per inch
.03 = 847 lines per inch
.04 = 635 lines per inch
.05 = 508 lines per inch (about my default on most 'quality' engraving on a small scale)
.06 = 423 lines
.07 = 363 lines
.08 = 317 lines
.09 = 283 lines
.10 = 254 lines -- this represents a spacing of almost .004" between raster lines, which means very little line overlap of a .006" wide beam, which you want for efficient material removal, and it's also not conducive for edge smoothness; you need substantial overlap to reduce visible radius of the beam along vertical edges.

I occasionally run less lines on larger engraving of anodized aluminum since it's fairly forgiving, leather and wood is forgiving too.. but Rowmark not so much.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

I have engraved countless quantities in a majority of the colors. Your samples look like mine - when I experimented with engraving while the protective sheet was still on it. I only stopped using LaserMax because of the whole JDS thing.


What worked for me, with 1 pass, was 100 speed and 33 - 35 power at 600 dpi for raster depending upon the color. I would vector cut first with the protective sheet on, then peel the sheet off and raster engrave. I never found a setting that didn't produce sticky edges. I cleaned up with WD-40 and on a rare occasion, I would use a light wipe-down with a magic eraser if a color managed to get into the freshly engraved white area.

Here is a sample I just engraved & cut from a scrap of evergreen/white that has been laying in a bin. No protective sheet was on it. I did NOT clean it after engraving. This is how it looked pulling it out of the engraver. The fonts were all in size 12 for what that is worth. the size of the winding graphic is in inches.

It looks MUCH better in person. Resizing it smaller for the web really degraded the quality.
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[Keith Downing]

Ok, with the film off, the results are somewhere between good and excellent. The only caveat, I'm getting some serious flaming. Definitely the largest I've ever gotten on anything being rastered.

Is it safe to have the material flaming? Obviously assuming it is being watched and doesn't catch fire.

I'm going to try with more speed next batch, but at least I'm getting a useable result now.

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[Gary Hair]

You should get almost zero flaming when rastering, and with air assist, you should get very little when vectoring.

[Keith Downing]

You should get almost zero flaming when rastering, and with air assist, you should get very little when vectoring.

Well, I'll have to do some more homework tomorrow then. These are looking great now, especially after speeding things up a little bit more. But the flaming is noticeable. Maybe I need to clean them off after I take off the protective plastic. I'm not sure what else I could be doing to cause it, unless taking the scan gap down to .06 is causing overlap and melting. But it looks good.

[Jeff Body]

When I took on my first job a few weeks again using Gemini Duets I did a ton of research. This video is worth pure gold.
Loads of good advice.

I ended up with 5 sheets of 1"x3" plates that broke away when the customer needed them. Took about 8 hours total but it was well worth the money.


https://youtu.be/cdN3xBQBxC4

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[Kev Williams]

any chance of photographing those flames? The main issue that comes to my mind is focus- if a fat beam is hitting the Romark it's going to do more heating than vaporizing, which may cause a blowtorch effect...

could be a beam-split issue but not likely- I was going to say lens issue, but I have one lens with a burnt spot and one that's cracked in 3 places and both of them still engraving fine!

you should maybe try a ramp test with a 10" long piece of Rowmark, I'm thinking your focus is in need of adjusting--

And what focal length lens are you using? is it possible it's not what you think it is?