Next handplane?

[Ted Kennedy]

I have a Stanley #5 that I restored and it works great. I also have a LN block plane. Looking at getting a #4 smoother, but I am wondering since I already have the #5, am I better off just setting that up as a smoother and getting something bigger like a #7? Or should I go with a #2 or 3 so there is more of a difference in size from the #5? I am a tall guy, but my hands aren't huge.

I build primarily furniture for personal use. Try to do most of my milling with power tools, although I don't have a jointer and have been unimpressed by the results I get from my planer sled, so often use the #5 to get one side close to flat to run through the thicknesser.

I don't see myself ever having 10 planes, so I don't want to regret spending the $ on something too similar to what I already have.

Thanks for the advice.

Ted

[Chris Schoenthal]

Without a good joiner, I would get a #7 first.
You'll be amazed at the difference in results from the #5 with the longer and wider base.

[Tony Wilkins]

You can use the #5 as a smoother especially if you do most milling by machine. However, a #4 is the traditional smoothing plane to team with other planes. They are plentiful if you want to go the restore route so shouldn't be too much money. Another point is scale of work; if you do small boxes a #3 might be a better smoother for you and conversely your jack might be good if you build large tables and armoires.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Get the no 7 for jointing and you can smooth with the 5. The next plane should be a smoother after that, and then you are addicted and won't be able to stop. You've been warned.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Since you are at least partially milling stock by hand, I'd suggest aiming for the standard set of 3 or 4 bench planes. From biggest to smallest:

-A try plane (22" or so in length) for getting faces of boards dead flat. This is set up with a moderate camber and takes moderately thick shavings. This could be a Stanley #7 or similar, or a wooden try plane.

-A jack plane (around 15" long) for removing material quickly on a board that's heavily bowed/cupped/twisted etc. This has a more aggressive blade camber for taking heavy shavings. Typically this is a #5 or something around that size. Wooden planes are good for this job as well.

-A smoothing plane (9 or 10") for taking thinner shavings and leaving a fine surface. Set up with minimal camber. This is usually a #4 or #4-1/2, but shorter or longer planes can work as well. I think a #4 is a very good size.

A fourth plane could be a dedicated jointer, for working on edges. The try plane can do this as well, but you might like a jointer with a bit less camber than you'd typically use for a try.

The lengths and sizes of each plane aren't as important as the setup, particularly the camber.


The #5 you already have would be a good candidate for being the jack plane or the smoother. Since you have a thicknesser, perhaps the jack plane is the least urgent need, unless the boards you're starting with are pretty unruly. In that case it makes sens to get a long plane first, and set up the #5 as a smoother. That gives you the ability to easily joint edges for panel glue ups or running through a table saw; pretty critical if you don't have a machine jointer. You can set up the long plane to take thicker shavings and use that for prepping stock to go through the thicknesser.

Then if you want to be able to handle rougher stock more efficiently, or to mill stock too wide for your thicknesser, you can look at adding a jack plane. You could convert your #5 and buy a new smoothing plane, or if you like using the 5 as a smoother you could just add another #5-size plane and set that up as a jack. A jack plane doesn't need to be fancy or finely tuned, an old #5 or transitional off ebay or from the flea market is fine with minimal prep.

[steven c newman]

A #7 or the slightly shorter #6 would work..

The #3 and #4 different only in the width of the iron.

Maybe a #3, the #5, and either a #6 or #7?

Of course, I am not so picky...
358372
L-R: #7c, #6c, #5-1/2, #5, #5c, #5-1/4, and a few #3s and #4s....plus a few standard angle and low angle block planes. All users...

[Ted Kennedy]

Thanks so much for all the feedback, I appreciate it. I am glad I asked, as it seems like my suspicion was right that I would be best off adding a longer plane for flattening stock. I am sure you are right that I will eventually add a traditional smoother, but I can get by with the jack plane and card scrapers for the time being. Off to spend hours researching and browsing listings!

Thanks again, have a great weekend.

Ted

[Stew Denton]

Ted,

Sounds like you are on the right road, lots of good advise above.

Robert mentions having more than one plane of a given size, each for a different task. However, the difference between the planes is the set up of the iron. If I ever get back into doing quite a bit of carpentry, I will plan to carry a limited number of planes to the job, maybe only two. The main plane would be a #5 or a #5&1/2, and carry different irons for different jobs.

As the folks above mentioned, traditionally woodworkers used 3 bench planes, a fore plane, a jointer (or try) plane, and a smoother. The fore plane is set up with quite a bit of camber, ie: the iron has a lot of curve, and it is used first to get the lumber somewhat flat and primarily to get it to thickness. The iron has a lot of camber to take off a lot of wood quickly. Traditionally the fore plane is a #6 (18" long), but a #5 or 5&1/2 will work just fine for that also. Again, lots of camber.

The 2nd plane used is the jointer plane or try plane, to "try" the surface and get it dead flat. A very long sole is the key here, and a #7 is usually about 22" long, and a #8 is about 24." If you look for planes, you will find maybe 10 #7s for every #8, so that tells you which was more widely used. The iron for this plane is usually set up with a moderate amount of camber. I don't have a #8, but get along just fine with my #7, but still, I do hope to have a #8 some day, but until then I seem to do well with the #7.

The last plane used is the smoother, a #3, #4, or #4&1/2. Of these the #4 is by far the most commonly found, with the #4&1/2 by far the least common. This one is set up with a few thousandths of an inch camber, just a tiny bit. It is used last to smooth the flat surface left by the jointer plane.

That said, for a long time I only had a #5. If you have an iron set up like a smoother, an iron set up like a try plane, and an iron set up like a jointer plane you can do all three jobs with the one plane. It will not do the smoothing or straightening and flattening as well as the planes made for those specific jobs, but you can get by with the one plane. That said, it is really nice to have all three of the three planes.

Getting back to carpentering, I will carry a #5 or more likely a #5&1/2, with the three types of irons, and maybe a 4th iron that is dead square for trimming doors and windows. The other plane I will carry is a block plane.

Robert writes about setting up several planes for specific purposes. Again, you can do the same thing with different irons, but it is not as handy because you will need to change out irons when the need arises, but this is not a major problem.

As you mention, and the others as well, I would go with a #7 plane next, to get the lumber flat and ready to run through the thickness planer you already have.

I would also get one more iron for your #5, and put a lot of camber on it so you can use it for a fore plane. Finally you can get a smoother some time in the future. In the mean time, an iron with a tiny amount of camber for your #5 will get you by for a smoother.

Stew

[steven c newman]

I have 2 of the #7 planes. When the length says to use a longer plane, I will use it. The #6c? A little shorter, and a hair lighter in weight. Then the #5-1/2....same width as the first two, but a bit shorter. Use it on drawers, both the fronts and the sides.

As for the #5.....I have 4 of them, with each iron set up a little different than the others. IF I need to scrub rough down FAST, a 8" radius iron is set up and ready. The next two are a slightly less radius, and the last of the four has no radius.

For the smaller items I make,I have a #5-1/4 Junior Jack plane. Same width as a #3 ( same iron) just a few inches longer. Mine is a Millers Falls No.11. Nice and light to use, goes places the larger, wider planes cannot.

I use a few of both the #3 and #4 smooth planes, as needed, depending on what size of work needs done.

Block planes. Have a few of each. I have been reaching for the two low angle ones, lately. A Stanley No. 60-1/2 and a Millers Falls No. 56B.....basically the same plane. For a quick shave here and there, Ialso have a few "Standard Angle" block planes. They come in handy knocking down sharp corners and the like.

#7: Fairly easy to find, a bit pricey. Brand new? Vintage Stanleys? Miller Falls No. 22?, or maybe an Ohio Tool Co. 0-7?

#6 A bit harder to find....

#3 and #4...Vintage is about a dime-a-dozen. Or buy new? Just "picked" a Sargent made for Sears Dunlap #3for $5.....after an afternoon of clean up, it is making "see-through shavings"

Block planes? I sometimes trip over them at yard sales. Can be had in about any size or maker. My 60-1/2 came in it's OEM box.....has a "Maroon" colour to it, still a very good Stanley made plane.

I don't change cutters, I have different set up planes instead. Too much to change a cutter, when I can just grab the next plane. Each is set up and ready to work, rather than fiddling with a set up each time I need a different cutter.....unless we are talking about a Stanley 45.......only have one, so far, so I do have to change cutters on it....

[Jim Koepke]

[edited for brevity]
I don't change cutters, I have different set up planes instead. Too much to change a cutter, when I can just grab the next plane. Each is set up and ready to work, rather than fiddling with a set up each time I need a different cutter.....unless we are talking about a Stanley 45.......only have one, so far, so I do have to change cutters on it....

Same here as it is often easier and less expensive to purchase another complete plane than it is to buy a blade and cap iron. Most of my #5s were $10 or less at yard sales. Try to buy a blade or cap iron for that kind of money.

A scrub plane doesn't need a premium blade.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Hey Ted, where do you live? if you are in Ohio, you can try some of my planes to get a feel for what you like. I know a few other people in the area who I am sure would echo that statement.

If you can find an inexpensive #4, that is probably a good addition, but, I would look first for something larger like a #7 or even a #6.

[Chris Hachet]

Hey Ted, where do you live? if you are in Ohio, you can try some of my planes to get a feel for what you like. I know a few other people in the area who I am sure would echo that statement.

If you can find an inexpensive #4, that is probably a good addition, but, I would look first for something larger like a #7 or even a #6.I will echo my esteemed colleagues Newman and Pitonyak.

I have a #4 I got from Steven that is a bit of a Frankenplane...Stanley lever cap, Sergent body, Eclipse blade, mismatched handle and tote. Tuned up it is 80-85 % of the plane my $350 Lie Nielsen #4 is.

Currently I run

1 #8-German wooden bodied plane, works fantastic, bought very cheaply from another creeker.

1-#7, about 1907-1908, corrugated sole, still works fantastic.

1-#6. Type 14 or 15, about 1932-1937 IIRC. I paid a whopping $45 for it at an antique mall and it probably is my best performing plane...works as well as my Veritas and Lie Nielsen planes.

3-#5, 1 Sargent, 1 Stanley type 13, one Stanley type 17. I have less than $40 in all three, looking for used tools and rehabbing them you can get excellent buys.

6-#4. 2 for fine work ECE Primus and Lie Nielsen #4, two for general purpose, 1926ish Stanley sweetheart and modern Stanley sweetheart, two for rough work, type 17 Stanley and the aforementioned Frankenplane. Having several smothers is more handy than one can imagine.

2-#3, a wooden Miefer Spanish coffin plane from the 1980's and an 1890's #3 Stanley I acquired from Mr Pitonyak.

I use three block planes, a Veritas apron plane, a Lie Nielsen Rabbiting block plane, and a nice maroon Stanley I acquired from Mr Newman.

If you are ever in central Ohio drop by for a test drive on any of the above...

And yes, hand planes will start finding you like lost puppies once you start looking.

[Robert Engel]

I also would go for a jointer. That being said, a #6 is the most used plane in my shop and IME most of the time is suffices to get all but the longest boards flat.

Well tuned, a #5 can act as a smoother if you use an iron with the edges eased. Keep a cambered blade for rougher work.

[Chris Hachet]

I also frequently use a Veritas router plane and a Lie Nielsen Coffin plane.

[Chris Hachet]

I also would go for a jointer. That being said, a #6 is the most used plane in my shop and IME most of the time is suffices to get all but the longest boards flat.

Well tuned, a #5 can act as a smoother if you use an iron with the edges eased. Keep a cambered blade for rougher work.A #5 can also joint up to about 36 inches long with practice, and longer with patience.

#6 is an excellent all around plane and usually cheap as everyone wants the #7 and #5.

To the OP, you will get more out of any plane with a really stout work bench and good sharpening tools, these are more important IMHO than actual plane choice. Bench can be ugly, made of lumber from a big box store, so long as it is stout and flat.

[Jim Koepke]

Hey Ted, where do you live? if you are in Ohio, you can try some of my planes to get a feel for what you like. I know a few other people in the area who I am sure would echo that statement.

If you can find an inexpensive #4, that is probably a good addition, but, I would look first for something larger like a #7 or even a #6.

I will echo the statement, if you are in the vicinity of Southwest Washington you are welcome to come by and test drive any of my planes.

My thought is if you are using power equipment to do some of the work a long plane isn't as important. A smoother like a #3 or #4 might be more suitable to your needs.

The answer might be found on what situations you are facing. Are you currently having difficulties with edge joining pieces when gluing?

Then a longer plane like a jointer might be what you need.

Do you have small areas in need of smoothing the #5 isn't able to work?

Then a shorter plane may be the answer.

When all is said and done, many woodworkers get by with a three bench plane strategy. The jointers could be anything from a #6 to a #8. The middle is almost always filled with a #5. The smoother is usually a #3 or #4 though some will opt for a bigger #4-1/2 or a smaller #2.

Since you have restored a #5, it should be easy to find a used #4 and restore it. Just be careful to buy one that is all there and isn't just something made to look like a woodworking tool.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

This hand plane business is indeed a slippery slope. They multiply like rabbits. :)

[Stew Denton]

Hi Jim,

Good point about setting up individual planes instead of replacement irons, because it is actually cheaper. The problem in the small towns in West Texas, is finding almost any used plane. I have found a very limited number, and did get a good deal on a few I found, not as good as the deals you have gotten, but pretty good by my standards. Most of the ones I have found were late enough models that I wasn't very interested in them, but I did find a few type 10s to type 14s a few years ago where the seller had bought out a collection from an estate sale. Almost all of the ones I have seen were at flea markets and antique shops. In all the garage sales I have been to since moving here (but I don't go to very many), I have seen a grand total of one bench plane. (When about your only option is to buy planes on Ebay, it isn't cheaper to buy the whole plane...and unfortunately that is my main option. I seldom even see any listed on d on Craig's list.)

That said, I think for most Neanders, complete cheap garage sale planes in desirable types is probably the way to go, so for most Neanders, I think your point is a very good one.

I was thinking that one of the guys here had posted about buying new replacement irons from a big box store for $3. I may be wrong on that, and obviously they weren't Stanley irons, but that was what I was remembering. Still, all in all, I think you are right. If you can find them it is much better to have dedicated planes set up and ready to go. I don't have enough planes yet to be completely set up that way, but that is the direction I want to go also, and I am getting closer. Come to think of it I do have a junker or two that I could make into scrub types, so I may be closer than I was thinking.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Jim,

Good point about setting up individual planes instead of replacement irons, because it is actually cheaper. The problem in the small towns in West Texas, is finding almost any used plane. I have found a very limited number, and did get a good deal on a few I found, not as good as the deals you have gotten, but pretty good by my standards. Most of the ones I have found were late enough models that I wasn't very interested in them, but I did find a few type 10s to type 14s a few years ago where the seller had bought out a collection from an estate sale. Almost all of the ones I have seen were at flea markets and antique shops. In all the garage sales I have been to since moving here (but I don't go to very many), I have seen a grand total of one bench plane. (When about your only option is to buy planes on Ebay, it isn't cheaper to buy the whole plane...and unfortunately that is my main option. I seldom even see any listed on d on Craig's list.)

That said, I think for most Neanders, complete cheap garage sale planes in desirable types is probably the way to go, so for most Neanders, I think your point is a very good one.

I was thinking that one of the guys here had posted about buying new replacement irons from a big box store for $3. I may be wrong on that, and obviously they weren't Stanley irons, but that was what I was remembering. Still, all in all, I think you are right. If you can find them it is much better to have dedicated planes set up and ready to go. I don't have enough planes yet to be completely set up that way, but that is the direction I want to go also, and I am getting closer. Come to think of it I do have a junker or two that I could make into scrub types, so I may be closer than I was thinking.

Stew

Howdy Stew,

One of the things about looking for tools at yard sales and such is the folks looking to sell things on ebay get there early.
Pawn shops are also a good place to look. Often they have planes at high prices but will come down. The longer it has been sitting on their shelf, the more they will lower the price.

If one wants to get serious about rehabilitating a few planes one needs to buy some junk. Make sure you buy it at junk prices. This is one way to get a supply of spare parts.

The $3 'Buck Brothers' replacement blades seem to be a thing of the past. I haven't seen them at HD or Lowes. They are not listed on their site either.

Wish I had bought a couple more.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

I bought an iron from Home Depot one time. It is a decent iron.

[glenn bradley]

I love having my jointer plane and agree that this is what I would add next to Ted's collection. As a side note, if Ted is not getting 90+% of the jointing done with his planer sled he may want to troubleshoot the sled. Mine is the fairly basic Keith Rust version and it has served me well for many years for the investment of a few hours to build. I would consider this design as a minimum for a valid planer sled that would assure expected results. a piece of plywood with screws in it or wedges hot-glued in place will do in a pinch but, I wouldn't want to try to use that regularly. Just food for thought.

[Jerry Olexa]

Good wisdom above....Agree with the recos.
Don't overlook the #6 in between foreplane,,Easier to handle than a #7 and can do most of your jointing chores.

[Ted Kennedy]

First of all, thanks to those who offered to let me try their planes. I am in Connecticut, so not local to either of you, but I appreciate the thought.

After reading the advice here, I started perusing eBay for a # 7 or 8. As noted in this thread, the 8s were much less common, and I was outbid at the last moment on the few available.

After a day or two I ended up being the high bid on a number 7 that I have IDed as a type 9 (1902-07). Feeling great about that, I fell into eBay's trap and also picked up a number 4 that was listed in the "you might also like this" area after I sent payment for the first one. The 4 is a type 19 ('48-'61), so neither of them are in what I have read is the sweet spot of types 10-15, but they are in solid user condition, and I am not starting a museum.

The shipping ended up being faster than expected, and they both arrived yesterday, so I came on here to provide the update, and thank everyone for their help.

The older 7 has some great patina, so I just cleaned off any loose grime, and plan to use it as is. The 4 has patina on the outside of the body, but the cap looks to have been cleaned up, and the inside japaning may have been redone as well, so I won't worry as much about keeping that one "original". Neither look like they will requre much if any lapping of the soles.

I ordered pm-v11 replacement blades for both from LV, but they won't arrive until next week. The original blades look to be in serviceable shape, and one has been ground with a significant camber, so with some touching up, I will be able to swap them in for various purposes as suggested.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction! I can't wait to finish tuning these up and get them to work!

Edit: forgot to post a pic! Also, I apologize for being MIA from this thread after the first few replies, I thought I had notifications turned on, but apparently not. I did read everyones input, and very much appreciate it.

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[Jim Koepke]

Those both look like good workers Ted.

People like the 'sweet spot' of Stanley manufacturing enough to make type 9 and earlier planes very good deals. In the last decade it would hard for me to recall any time when a frog adjustment was needed other than when a plane was being reassembled.

jtk