Planing on a work bench that is not flat.

[Scott Archi]

So my workbench that was hastily constructed is not level. This is unfortunate. I am working on correcting this as the workbench top, 3/4" plywood is held up approx. 6" from a shelf below it by the ends of 2x4's going vertically. To level this bench I intend to measure up from the floor and cut the 2x4's at the exact same height, essentially levelling the top.

Until then I want to work on a tool tote and need to plane a few boards, if I was doing this on an unlevelled workbench top would the work come out unequal thickness end to end or would it not matter as the plane bottom is flat and that's what's dimensioning the wood. I know a beginner question and while I don't think it would matter I wanted some opinions.

[Shawn Pixley]

Flat is much more important than level. My bench is never level as it sits on a sloping garage floor. But it is reasonably flat.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I would be more concerned about the top flexing under the plane if it is just 3/4 plywood.

[David Eisenhauer]

If what you are saying is that a level placed on your workbench top would show the top as being out of level, this should have no bearing on your board planning. The level-or-not condition will not affect that operation. I am not clear on the construction details of your top being mounted on the vertical ends of 2x4's, but it sounds as if either the vertical 2x4's are not all equal in length or your floor is not level (common occurrence). If the floor is not level, you may want to simply shim the legs at the floor to achieve level rather than custom-cut the legs or other vertical elements of your bench so that the bench can be moved to other locations without re affecting level. You planning to an equal thickness on your boards will depend on: 1) Flattening one surface (with your plane) and ensuring that it is also free of "wind" or twist. You could designate the resulting flat surface the "bottom" 2) Using the "bottom" as a registration surface, measure up and mark the sides of your board to the desired thickness as a continuous line around all four sides of the board (traditionally done with some type of marking gauge) and then plane the remaining surface ("top") down to the measured line. The benchtop is only a place to work on and is not part of the levelling process so long as the benchtop is itself flat and of sufficient strength to resist sagging or deflecting under the load of the planning operation. I almost want to suggest adding a second layer of 3/4" plywood to the benchtop to strengthen it up some for deflection resistance, but should not do so without seeing a photo or something similar of your bench. Have fun and remember, when in doubt, re sharpen the plane iron.

[Stew Denton]

Scott,

Years ago when I was remodeling/restoring our first home, I had a "bench" in the basement to work on. (Read that an cheap old kitchen sink base cabinet with two small drawers, that I had torn out so as to replace the cabinets, with a double layer of 3/4" particle board nailed on to the top of the cabinet.)

The doubled layer of 3/4" particle board made a top 1&1/2" thick, it was pretty flat, and quite rigid. If you have a frame under such a top made of say 2X4s planed flat and straight, it will be plenty rigid and straight for planning, but the key is to get the frame dead flat and straight. You will need to run a few of the 2X4s in the frame crosswise to the length of the bench to keep things rigid and flat. This is a very inexpensive temporary bench until you can move up in the "bench" world. You can even put a face vice on it. Does it have limitations....darn tooten....but serviceable for the time being.

Stew

[andy bessette]

Just fix or replace the top so that it is flat.

[Scott Archi]

Scott,

Years ago when I was remodeling/restoring our first home, I had a "bench" in the basement to work on. (Read that an cheap old kitchen sink base cabinet with two small drawers, that I had torn out so as to replace the cabinets, with a double layer of 3/4" particle board nailed on to the top of the cabinet.)

The doubled layer of 3/4" particle board made a top 1&1/2" thick, it was pretty flat, and quite rigid. If you have a frame under such a top made of say 2X4s planed flat and straight, it will be plenty rigid and straight for planning, but the key is to get the frame dead flat and straight. You will need to run a few of the 2X4s in the frame crosswise to the length of the bench to keep things rigid and flat. This is a very inexpensive temporary bench until you can move up in the "bench" world. You can even put a face vice on it. Does it have limitations....darn tooten....but serviceable for the time being.

Stew

Stew great story. It's not that the bench top isn't flat. It is not level. I'm thinking of doing some cutting of the uprights the bench top sits on. Measuring from the floor as my reference. I needed something to work on and made this bench quickly. I will work on improving it until my skills allow me to make a good proper bench.

[John Kananis]

Stew great story. It's not that the bench top isn't flat. It is not level. I'm thinking of doing some cutting of the uprights the bench top sits on. Measuring from the floor as my reference. I needed something to work on and made this bench quickly. I will work on improving it until my skills allow me to make a good proper bench.

It doesn't work that way. Taking measurements from the floor up will only lead to frustration (I'm assuming your bench will be fixed to a particular part of the room). Build one leg to the length you'd like to use and then use a level (a big'un) to figure out the height of the rest - marking and cutting as you go. Also, for the top to remain 'flat' - a single sheet of ply wont do it. Consider a torsion box even if you use just 1x's for the framework. Lastly, you will be really, really unhappy with 2x4 legs - how are you securing these to the top?

EDIT: Your floor isn't level so measuring up....
EDIT 2: You don't have to go through all that, btw, just build to the height you want - level is not necessary unless you're working on a crazy floor.

[Scott Archi]

It doesn't work that way. Taking measurements from the floor up will only lead to frustration (I'm assuming your bench will be fixed to a particular part of the room). Build one leg to the length you'd like to use and then use a level (a big'un) to figure out the height of the rest - marking and cutting as you go.

Yes, this makes sense. I see the error of my ways now. It would never be level if moved to another spot since I would be basing my measurements off a floor that could in itself be unlevelled.


Also, for the top to remain 'flat' - a single sheet of ply wont do it. Consider a torsion box even if you use just 1x's for the framework. Lastly, you will be really, really unhappy with 2x4 legs - how are you securing these to the top?

I understand, it's too thin and will bow under pressure of planning etc. I will have to google torsion box.

It is true I am unhappy with these legs as no matter how much cross support I give them the bottom of the bench is rock solid but the top will sway back and forth. The top is secured with wood screws. I am very new to woodworking and haven't had much luck finding anyone local to give me a hand with the bench build.

Maybe I went in over my head with building a bench right away but how is one supposed to do work without a bench?

A workmate?

EDIT: Your floor isn't level so measuring up....
EDIT 2: You don't have to go through all that, btw, just build to the height you want - level is not necessary unless you're working on a crazy floor.

I could add another 3/4" or two layer of plywood on top of the bench to sturdy the top. I am more concerned about the bench not being as steady as I would like.

[andy bessette]

how is one supposed to do work without a bench? ...

Saw horses. But fix you your bench.

[Scott Archi]

Andy,

Can you explain the sawhorse method. I am picking up two tomorrow anyways because they are going to be on sale.

Scott

[Nicholas Lawrence]

If it is not steady, that is a problem. You want it to be stable. I have no idea how you designed your bench (photos really help people understand what you are dealing with), but you could try shims to try to firm it up. It may not work, but on the other hand it costs nothing and may work wonders. My torsion box "workbench in a weekend" was very unsteady when I got it together (a result of literally building it on the grass in my backyard) but a shim in the right spot made it rock solid.

Some folks also add weight on a lower shelf to help steady it.

[Robert Engel]

Stable is way more important than level. In fact, I wouldn't even worry about it unless its so bad stuff is rolling off.

Your top is already flat, but not thick enough. I would add 2 layers of 3/4 MDF.

You need to brace the legs to prevent racking. The best way is with stretchers. Use mortise/tenon or 1/2 lap joints.

[Stew Denton]

Scott,

Add me to the same idea as Robert and Nicholas, flat and rigid is far more important than level. I would use two layers of particle board on top of the 3/4" plywood you already have. My experience is that particle board is much more rigid and less flexible than plywood. It is not as strong, but much more stable, and for that reason much better for a bench top to work on and plane on.

I have no experience with the MDF that Robert lists above, but it may be just as good or better than particle board, I don't want to comment on it because I have never used it. I do know several folks have written fairly highly of it for some applications.

Regarding your question about working on sawhorses. That is what I do almost all of the time, since I have no other options currently. You want ridged sawhorses. I have seen several sets of the ones for sale, that were made from plastic or sometimes metal, but that were pretty flimsy. The ones I use I made from lumber, which, if well done is better than any of the plastic or metal saw horses I have seen for sale.

One set I built from old oak pallet lumber in 1981. That set has spent it's entire life outside with no shelter, and it is now getting a bit rickety, but given 36 years outside in the weather, that has been pretty good service. These were built with nails, which are now loose. I have thought about rebuilding them with screws, and if I do that the horses may give a few more good years of service. The oak lumber is still good. The other set I made from 2X4s and 1X6s. They have spent their entire lives in the garage, except when I am using them. They are good rigid horses.

Once you have good horses either use a 2X12 plank, or maybe a couple of 2X10 planks side by side on the horses. I sometimes use quick clamps or C-clamps to clamp the planks to the horses if need be. Clamping the planks to both sets of horses helps to rigid up things a lot by kind of making the planks and horses into one fairly rigid unit.

[andy bessette]

Get or make a couple sawhorses--you'll figure it out. A plain solid or hollow core door, laid across 2 sawhorses makes a fine place to work.

[Stanley Covington]

Please modify your title by substituting "level" for "flat." The whole thread is nonsense otherwise.

[Stew Denton]

Scott,

Andy has a good point, an old solid core door on the horses. Hollow core doors have a very thin skin, the ones I have worked on have a skin of plywood only about 1/8th inch thick with a waffle type core of folded corrugated cardboard. The cores cardboard content is usually quite marginable. By "work on" I don't mean us it as a bench, I mean replacing one of the skins, putting on hinges and mounting the door, building the door jamb, cutting the hole to mount the knob, etc. (IE: carpentry on the door.)

Consequently, the hollow core door has a face that is too thin for a workbench top in my view, but a solid core door will do quite nicely if you can find an old one cheap. Plac es that sell recycled building supplies might have on cheap. You will have to fill the door knob mounting hole though.

Stew

[Scott Archi]

Please modify your title by substituting "level" for "flat." The whole thread is nonsense otherwise.

.... No


It may be nonsense to you but these fine gentlemen are helping me out instead of critiquing my choice of words.

[Scott Archi]

If it is not steady, that is a problem. You want it to be stable. I have no idea how you designed your bench (photos really help people understand what you are dealing with), but you could try shims to try to firm it up. It may not work, but on the other hand it costs nothing and may work wonders. My torsion box "workbench in a weekend" was very unsteady when I got it together (a result of literally building it on the grass in my backyard) but a shim in the right spot made it rock solid.

Some folks also add weight on a lower shelf to help steady it.


I will ill take some photos to help paint a picture and for the sake of diagnosis.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

If it's out of flat...or if like me you _know_ how to flatten the bench and have just been a little too crazed w/other things to get around to it...a planing board can easily overcome that problem:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-classes/beyond-vise-planing-boards
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/build-george-elliss-planing-board

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks for posting those links Megan!. Solves a couple of challenges for me.

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks Megan. Good stuff.

[Scott Archi]

Great reads thank you Megan.