Weird split beam from Laser Tube. (Epilog Helix)

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey guys,

This is my first post, but I've been reading a lot over the years here. Such an amazing community and wealth of knowledge.
I'm excited to start getting more engaged here.

Ok so I have an issue with my 9 month old Helix 60 watt. I've already emailed the support and awaiting reply, but while I'm waiting for a response
I thought I'd see what you guys think.

I noticed my laser losing power and seeming blurry engravings. After cleaning optics and checking alignment, I noticed something odd.
The beam seemed to be split in 3. I thought was mirrors but after testing directly from the tube, it seems it's splitting at the tube level.

The photos do most of the talking. Does anyone know why this would be happening.. so strange.

http://imgur.com/a/IhJ78 <-- here is the photos. For some reason I can't attach photo to this post

Thanks!
Kirk

[Bert Kemp]

When posting photos it would be appreciated if you up loaded your photos to this site so that they are always here for people to see. Not at some other site that might be gone tomorrow.as far as your problem not sure what Im looking at . the tape looks to be over the lens mirror , so it could be from the second mirror. did you check to see if mabe a mirror is cracked or dirty. is the tube end free of debris

[John Noell]

Bert, I think he is showing the hole where the Epilog beam comes out. At least in my Mini, the tube butted right up to a sealed box (which contains two mirrors). The beam exited the box through a glass window and headed to the mirror at the end of the gantry (then onto the mirror at the lens). On my mini, that's as close to the tube window you can get (without taking the machine apart). That beam profile *could* be caused by the mirrors in the box doing something weird, but they are closed in and I think not likely to be the culprit(s). However, I have no idea what is causing it.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey guys, thanks for the reply

Bert: As I said in my post, there is a buggy issue with the forum that didn't let me post photos (Chrome, Windows 10) so I posted to imgur instead.
I tried about 8 times.

John Noell is correct.

The first photo is using the mirrors and trying to do an alignment. It is then that I realized the split looking spot was not normal. So I went directly to the tube (as shown in bottom two photos).
At this point, it's coming directly out of the tube and it seems to be split.

So strange. I'll see what the Epilog guys say and update the thread. I'll try posting photos again as well so others in future can learn if they run into the issue

Thanks,
Kirk

[Chuck Phillips]

My 60W Helix did this a few years ago. IIRC it was a cracked mirror inside the tube. The result was tube replacement.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Chuck,

Thanks for the reply! This is what I feared and thought when I saw it coming out of tube like this.
I have 68 orders in the queue and it's a long weekend. This always happens to me on a long weekend heheh

Ok i'll see what Epilog says and go from there. I'll update the thread

Thanks guys!

Kirk

[Bert Kemp]

Sorry the part about not posting in the forum must of just went right over my head oops but it stll might be a cracked mirror, don't know how the epi's work that much
Hey guys, thanks for the reply

Bert: As I said in my post, there is a buggy issue with the forum that didn't let me post photos (Chrome, Windows 10) so I posted to imgur instead.
I tried about 8 times.

John Noell is correct.

The first photo is using the mirrors and trying to do an alignment. It is then that I realized the split looking spot was not normal. So I went directly to the tube (as shown in bottom two photos).
At this point, it's coming directly out of the tube and it seems to be split.

So strange. I'll see what the Epilog guys say and update the thread. I'll try posting photos again as well so others in future can learn if they run into the issue

Thanks,
Kirk

[Kirk Quesnelle]

No problem at all Bert! :)

I actually contacted Epilog and of course over the phone is hard to show problems but after seeing the beam profile, he said it's likely a tube issue. I think they are going to send me out a new tube on Monday.

I took another few tests coming directly from the tube. The beam seems to be split into 3 :(
http://imgur.com/a/Xt4m2

On another note. I wish I could post images here so others can learn in the future. But for some reason there is no button to submit after I attach. Anyone else have this problem? Here is a photo of the problem I'm experiencing. There is no place to hit submit. http://imgur.com/a/fNKIu

Kirk

[Bert Kemp]

after you browse for a photo underneath it says upload just click upload

[Bert Kemp]

http://i.imgur.com/Ulqdj0q.png

[Bert Kemp]

Kirk I posted them for you

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Thanks Bert.

I'll keep it updated with what happens

Cheers
Kirk

[Henri Sallinen]

We had a somewhat similar problem with our last tube for our Epilog Helix 24. We had to wrestle with Epilog for some time to get it replaced but in the end they did. It was more like the letter Q shaped with a rounder bit and a "tail" at the bottom. Here are a few photos of the beam with a short burst and with a longer burn. We used receipt paper to get the darkening with a minimal exposure time. It clearly isn't round like it should be and we didn't get as much power out of the tube as was expected. That's when we started to experiment. Mirrors were all fine and aligning also. Got the new replacement tube and everything works fine!

358497358498

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Henri

Thanks for the posting that!

Nice to know I'm not the only one who had this problem.

I believe they are going to send me a new tube. But I'm not sure just yet until I talk to them today.

Did you end up finding out what it was?

Thanks
Kirk

[Henri Sallinen]

Glad to be of some help :)

No idea what was the problem and I'm sure Epilog isn't that keen on letting us know if it's a faulty tube. Just glad that the new tube they sent was fine and everythings running nicely now. Just not at all happy on how much I had to armwrestle with the company to get everything settled.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Just wanted to complete this thread with a final update.

Epilog has really come through. Jon and Terry at Epilog Canada had my new tube to me in 1 business day.
I installed the new tube and did an alignment. The new tube was so freaking powerful I ruined a couple products with my old speed settings lol.

Extremely happy with Epilog right now.

Well... fun holiday but I guess now it's time to process back orders

Thanks Guys!

Kirk

[Henri Sallinen]

Great to hear everything went well!

Had the same thing with the new tube: So much POWEEEEER. Had to recheck all my settings. It may be that they overpower the tubes and over time it might drop to the original settings, but so far cutting away with more power than with the old tube.

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Henri,

Have you experienced a loss in power yet from the day you got the new tube? If so, how long has this been.
I'm starting a log. Every month I'm going to engrave the same material with same settings and log out how it changes
over time.

And that's the thing... they do overpower them but how long until that drops. 6 months, 1year (assuming fulltime shop).

Because I need this thing to run like this all the time so I can get high quality product out faster.
I've considered just paying the 3-4k every 8-9 months to have it recharged. I can't stand when production has to be slowed because of a faulty tube.

I've also considered looking into a Trotec with the ceramic tube. Apparently the gasses don't leak because it's completely sealed and
fired in ceramic. And also the metals don't interact with the gasses because it's ceramic not metal. I just don't know how much of that claim is true...


Anyway, the trotec 120 Watt is in my sights. Just need to grow big enough :)

[Kev Williams]

My LS900 I bought new in 2004, and the GCC Explorer I bought from Gary almost 2 years ago...

About 3 years ago my NH rep gave me a new mirror for over the lens, it was a yellow-coated mirror, the original wasn't. That day, and every day since, it's had more power than day one. I know this because of saved settings from day one. I've had to speed up or power down every previous setting. So after 13 years, I can safely say the tube in this machine hasn't lost a step since new (knock on my head) ;)...

The GCC, about 4 months or so ago, I decided to yank away from the wall and clean the bottom mirror-- this machine's tube is mounted horizontal at the bottom, so it has FOUR mirrors, and I hadn't touched that bottom one. HOLY crap, what a wake-up that was! So for at least the time I've owned this machine, it hasn't missed a beat either! (knock on my head again)...

And the common denominator in keeping the power up-- Mirrors...

[Henri Sallinen]

5 months in and the power is still up with about 4-5h / day running time on weekdays. I'd suggest going with a trotec. I've got my on one myself but it might be too expensive and might have to go with a Laserscript machine instead. We do quite a lot of cutting and very little engraving so a cheaper machine could do the trick for us!

[Kirk Quesnelle]

Hey Kev,

Yea I often wonder how much power is lost in mirrors and glass. I think my tech told me 5% on this lens. But I'm wondering how much mirrors come in to play.
And how higher quality mirrors might gain a few extra wattage points.. Good point to keep an eye on these

Henri, Yep trotec is what I'm excited about these days. Not cheap, but amortized over 10 years and the speed of the speedy... I think its a safe bet if you have the business
to make use of it