Utility finishes from a different perspective

[Eric Gourieux]

There have been countless threads on SMC regarding the safety of various finishes for salad bowls and and other utility items, but I haven't seen many questions or responses addressing the durability one finish over another. Assuming that all available wood finishes are safe once cured (I don't want to debate this issue, as it has been debated/discussed in numerous posts previously), are there particular finishes that simply don't stand up to the test of time when used on salad bowls and other utility items? For example, it seems to me that a lacquer finish on a salad bowl would probably not look good after repeated use. I have only used walnut oil for salad bowls, so I don't have any experience with other finishes in this application. It is also intuitive to me that film finishes would be difficult to repair or "rejuvinate" when needed. What are your experiences in using finishes other than walnut oil and how do they hold up over time from the standpoint of appearance and water resistance?

[Brian Kent]

Good question, Eric.

[John C Cox]

You can and will scrub any finish off of wood with dish soap, hot water, and enough elbow grease.

1. Accept that.
2. Pick a finish thats easy to reapply and incorporates pretty easily into the old/leftover finish.

That means:
a non-drying oil/wax like walnut/olive oil or beeswax that soaks into the wood
or
a solvent base finish which burns into previous layers like lacquer or shellac.

I would avoid drying oils or varnishes because they dont burn into previous layers and thus leave witness lines.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I would avoid drying oils or varnishes because they dont burn into previous layers and thus leave witness lines.

I've used both non-drying finishes and light solvent-based finishes for years with good results on both. A light solvent base finish like General's Salad Bowl finish - essentially a blend of light oils and varnish works very well for me. I don't attempt to build the finish to a thick film, but allow it to penetrate and augment a well sanded surface. Seldom more than a single coat. It lasts for a very long time with little care. Non-drying finishes like walnut oil or mineral oil are usually finished with either pure beeswax or - more often, a coat of a mix of oil/wax like Clapham's.
Either respond well to a quick reapplication/rejuvenation by a simple reapplication. Both look great with a light buff.

I like the tactile feel of the wood, not a plastic surface on my utility pieces. The patina of frequent use is the best finish for a well used piece.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

How many turners do keep bowls for many years and use them regularly and with what finish on them ??

We have several bowls that are used regularly but especially one that has been used every day for the last 16 years.

We also use a White Ash salad bowl that is used regularly, but isn’t quite as old and used as much as the bread bowl, the bread bowl is made in 2001 and finished with Polymerized Tung Oil.

Polymerized Tung Oil is wiped on and let sit for about ten minutes to soak into the wood, all the oil is than wiped from the surface, and left to react with the oxygen in the air, polymerized it will not react with products used in the kitchen food preps.

One or two more coats are added to make sure all pores are filled, this finish is NOT wiped or scrubbed off of the wood, as it is in fact part of the wood, so unless you scrub a layer of wood off of the bowl, it is going to remain.

About 2 years ago I wiped a new coat of Polymerized tung oil on, The oil will grab on and soak into any wood fibers/cells that are not fully sealed or filled anymore.

So yes all talk ??, no I do have pictures of the two bowls here, the first two pictures were made in 2006 as I did not have a digital camera when I made the bowl, the next two pictures are made in 2016.

You can see that the color has stil changed a little between 2006 and 2016, even though the first picture are from a 5 year old bowl
357829 357830 357831 357832
Our White Ash salad Bowl we use regularly.
357833

[Brian Kent]

What is a source of actual Tung oil?

[Louis Harvill]

Leo, beautiful is alll I cany say.

[terry mccammon]

Tung oil is expressed from the seed of the nut from the tung tree.

[Brian Kent]

Yes, and what I mean is, many products use the words "Tung Oil" in their product titles. Waterlox claims 85% Tung oil. What retail sources do you use to buy Tung Oil products?

[John Keeton]

http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/original.html

https://www.amazon.com/Behlen-H3987-Tung-Oil-pt/dp/B0000DD61W

[John Keeton]

An interesting thread - particularly post #24.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?28051-Pure-Tung-Oil-or-Polymerized-Tung-Oil/page3

[Pat Scott]

Mineral Oil needs reapplied after washing.

Wax is not a finish, it's a topcoat and not a durable one at that. Wax needs reapplied after washing.

Walnut Oil or Walnut Oil/Wax needs reapplied occasionally.

Danish Oil lasts a long time and may never need to be reapplied depending on use, as food oils may provide all that the bowl needs. To reapply just wipe on more Danish Oil, there are no witness lines.

Lacquer, Shellac, Poly or Varnish full strength straight from the can should NEVER be used on a utility item. These are all film finishes. Once the film is compromised, the only way to fix it is completely strip or sand the old finish down to bare wood and start over.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Yes, and what I mean is, many products use the words "Tung Oil" in their product titles. Waterlox claims 85% Tung oil. What retail sources do you use to buy Tung Oil products?

Brian yes a lot of products use the word Tung Oil FINISH, like Minwax and others, that do NOT have a single drop of Tung oil in it, how can they get away with that LIE is the word FINISH.

As they say that Tung Oil FINISH will give a FINISH that looks like a real Tung Oil finish.

The way I see it, is that any time you see that word FINISH on the product, like Tung oil finish or Teak oil finish etc, there is none of that in the container, I have pulled several MSD sheets up and gone over them, and it is the same every time, there isn’t any in it.

[Ryan Mooney]

My only real "high use" example was waterlox on brewery taster trays. Hot water and mild caustic rinse multiple times per day (sometimes multiple times per hour). They started looking a but shabby after around 4 years of more or less continuous use. Waterlox burns in nicely on itself so a quite re-coat had them looking mostly reasonable.

[John Keeton]

Pat makes good points and they are consistent with my experience. The problem with a film finish on a utility item is that it eventually is compromised by heat, moisture and PH issues long before you realize it. Then, the moisture gets into the wood and exacerbates the degradation problem. Sooner or later, the film starts to disintegrate and flake off. An "in the wood" application is much better.

The only place I have used Danish oil is on the timbers in our home. The first coat was applied prior to the timber frame being erected. The wood was green. A few months later, we applied another soaking coat, which also soaked in. 3-4 years later, I applied another coat only on the timbers within reach. Even with that third application it still has the feel of an in the wood finish. I would think a couple of coats on a utility piece would provide some protection and still permit the application of an oil after some cure time.

While Danish oil is a varnish blend, it seems to be considerably more diluted than others and doesn't seem to build a film without several applications. Waterlox is a long oil varnish blend that will build reasonably quickly, but not as quickly as some of the other short oil products.

[John C Cox]

The "dirty secret" to drying oil finishes is UV and a very very thin application. Thats why the traditional tung and linseed oil finishes are wiped on then back off (thinnest coat) and then allowed good exposure to sunlight (UV) until dry/hard. Then you apply the next coat. You build finish this way.

You put on a thick coat and you get a goody mess that never cures. Thats what happens with the "drop" on glass... The only thing the gooey drop on glass really shows is that you can't apply the stuff thick like you can varnish.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

The "dirty secret" to drying oil finishes is UV and a very very thin application. Thats why the traditional tung and linseed oil finishes are wiped on then back off (thinnest coat) and then allowed good exposure to sunlight (UV) until dry/hard. Then you apply the next coat. You build finish this way.

You put on a thick coat and you get a goody mess that never cures. Thats what happens with the "drop" on glass... The only thing the gooey drop on glass really shows is that you can't apply the stuff thick like you can varnish.

Tung oil cures by polymerization, (it does not dry or needs UV for that, but oxygen), by Polymerization (molecules combining to form long chains) and oxidation (combining with Oxygen from the air) there are no secrets at all, and you can do it in total darkness.

[Reed Gray]

I call 'film' finishes surface finishes because they don't penetrate the wood, but sit on the surface. They are mostly spray finished or water based finishes. Fine for pieces that never get used, but for daily use pieces, the finish will always end up cracking, chipping, or peeling off, and are a pain to do over, which is the only way there is to make them look good again...

robo hippy

[Thom Sturgill]

Many finishes have been used for centuries if not thousands of years. Look at Asian lacquerware. Daily use in households and passed down for generations in some cases. Mahoney said he started with shellac, but went to Walnut oil after seeing a set of bowls that he had given to a family member that were no longer being used because the finish had degraded too much.

[Eric Gourieux]

Thanks for all of the responses. Great information.