#5 1/2 super smoother ala D.C. (or #7 ala A.P.)

[Tony Wilkins]

Anybody use them. I like using David Charlesworth's planing methods when I'm dealing with surfaced lumber from the store (which I'm doing a lot if lately). I don't really have a great plane for it however as I only have a #4. (That and I'm looking for an excuse to try one of the LV custom planes)

so, does anyone use a #5 1/2 as a 'super smoother '?

(I have an LN #7 that I try (no pun intended) to use that way as I understand Alan Peters did)

[Jim Koepke]

My #5-1/2 doesn't get used a whole lot. My #6 is just a bit bigger and is used all the time to smooth surfaces.

It is kind of like the difference between using a #7 or #8 for edge jointing.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Depends on what I am working on..
357716
Stanley # 5 -1/2, type 17
357717
Flattening a drawer front..

[Nick Stokes]

I feel like the 5 1/2 and 6 are the same plane. I have had several 5 1/2's and 6's come through the shop, and I used them interchangeably. I recently got my mitts on a LN #6, so I feel it'll serve my needs.

Here's the deal though... Using them to smooth works fine, it just takes alot longer. When I am smoothing, my project is typically done. I'm about to glue up. "Flatness" can be forsaken at this point for faster smoothing with a smaller 3 or 4.

[steven c newman]

My usage is depended on the size of the work I am doing. I have a few # 3s and #4s, a 5-1/4, a #5 set up as a smoother, that big Stanley #5-1/2, a #6c and a #7c. Just depends on what size of wood I am working on.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

(I have an LN #7 that I try (no pun intended) to use that way as I understand Alan Peters did)

Probably, when #7 is used for smoothing it is pushed skewed. This way it effectively becomes shorter and its blade narrower. But it is hard to tell based on those scarce videos where Alan Peters is holding his plane...

[david charlesworth]

When I started, my 5 1/2 was the only plane which worked at all. My 4 1/2 and 7 were too out of flat to use at all. (UK Stanley circa 1970)

Hence the habit of using 5 1/2 for almost everything. This worked well for many years. I made improvements whenever I discovered techniques for tuning, and Ron Hock. Mostly from Fine Woodworking.

Alan Peters used a 7, his famous comment being, " the work has to be very small before the 7 will not cope." Or words to that effect.

The unloved 6 is also a cracking plane, I have had students who used these.

Any of these three will do a splendid job and I have no use whatever for the number 4 which which is heavily touted elsewhere!

best wishes,
David

[Tony Wilkins]

When I started, my 5 1/2 was the only plane which worked at all. My 4 1/2 and 7 were too out of flat to use at all. (UK Stanley circa 1970)

Hence the habit of using 5 1/2 for almost everything. This worked well for many years. I made improvements whenever I discovered techniques for tuning, and Ron Hock. Mostly from Fine Woodworking.

Alan Peters used a 7, his famous comment being, " the work has to be very small before the 7 will not cope." Or words to that effect.

The unloved 6 is also a cracking plane, I have had students who used these.

Any of these three will do a splendid job and I have no use whatever for the number 4 which which is heavily touted elsewhere!

best wishes,
David

I had the 5 1/2 in my cart last night but then took it out. Think I'm going to continue with the #7 but my weak old body may change my mind soon.

[Terry Beadle]

It may be that you are taking too thick a shaving with that #7.
A 2 thou to 3 thou shaving is about as thick a shaving to take with that heavy plane
and should let you work comfortably.
Also use a strop fairly frequently to keep it sliding smooth. Wax the sole too or use lite oil rub.
Does wonders for ease of use.

I'm just sayin..

Enjoy the shavings!!

[Alan Schwabacher]

What is the problem you are having using the #4 for smoothing? It should be a lot easier on your "weak old body", though it will not enforce flat as well.

[Phil Mueller]

I ran across one of those too good to pass up yard sale #5Cs some time ago. A little cleaning and a new LV iron/chip breaker to replace the pitted original, and it quickly became my go to for stock prep. Like you, I have had great success with David C's technique and have been searching for a 5 1/2 for awhile. Well, about a month ago, a 5 1/2 landed in my shop. It still needs a bit of fettling, but I'm anxious to see if it falls into as much favor as the 5.

[Tony Wilkins]

It may be that you are taking too thick a shaving with that #7.
A 2 thou to 3 thou shaving is about as thick a shaving to take with that heavy plane
and should let you work comfortably.
Also use a strop fairly frequently to keep it sliding smooth. Wax the sole too or use lite oil rub.
Does wonders for ease of use.

I'm just sayin..

Enjoy the shavings!!
im actually going the other way - taking a 1-2 thou shaving. It's not that I'm having trouble pushing it - just that it's a heavy plane in general.


What is the problem you are having using the #4 for smoothing? It should be a lot easier on your "weak old body", though it will not enforce flat as well.

Not really having a problem with the 4 but looking at doing a particular method of smoothing and flattening a machine prepped as shown in David C's planing videos.

[lowell holmes]

I really like my 5 1/2. It is the plane I will likely pick up. I don't use my #6, but the #7 see's some use.

I tend to use my bevel up planes quite a bit.

[Jim Koepke]

When across the river today in another friends shop my reason for not using my #5-1/2 as much as my #6 came to light. Most likely it is because the #5-1/2 is on a lower shelf and more difficult on my back to grab. Maybe some planes should be moved around to see if that holds true.

jtk

[Tony Wilkins]

Went ahead and ordered an LV custom #5 1/2 today with an extra blade. Got the 40* frog to try since mostly what I plane is straight grained American hardwoods.

[Christopher Charles]

Sounds like fun! I'd be interested to hear what you think of the 40 deg frog as I'm also considering one.

Best,
Chris

[Tony Wilkins]

Sounds like fun! I'd be interested to hear what you think of the 40 deg frog as I'm also considering one.

Best,
Chris

Roger that, I'll report back. Might be just a bit as the plane in the configuration I ordered it is backordered.

[Kees Heiden]

You are all welcome to use whatever plane you want for smoothing, and experimenting with different planes is fun. But you'll have to pry my #4 from my cold dead hands! Smoothers have always been small planes, as far back as one can tell, for a reason.

After flattening a panel (electrical or with a try plane) it would be flat but not always very clean. Some tearout, some scratches, some planer snip or whatever. Now it would be easy to smooth it with a big panel plane like a #6. But why would you?

After flattening I will work on the joinery and the panel will invariably get marked and scratched. Also it will take time and in the mean time the weather changes resulting in slight (hopefully) warping. Just before assembly I'd like to clean up the showfaces of the panel, but want to remove as little as possible. Using a big smoothing plane would necessitate making the entire panel flat again, removing too much material. A small plane taking wispy shavings could do the job in short order.

After assembly I would probably need to do some more planing work to equalize the joints and to remove glue stains. The assembly is now big and unwieldy and using a big heavy plane wouldn't make things any easier.

So that's why I like a #4 or a small coffin smoother. Just like (almost) every other woodworking craftsman in the past.

[Warren Mickley]

I agree, Kees. When a guy says he uses only large heavy planes, I am wondering how much planing he actually does.

[Derek Cohen]

It's all in the timing.

Wood moves. Sometimes it moves it moves fast. If you are lucky, the boards you have just resawn and thicknessed are dry and stable, and move very little. If you are that lucky, then a long plane can act as a smoother since it will cut a uniform shaving and thickness along the length. Then you can take a fine shaving, and the dimensions will not alter.

I'm rarely that lucky. My wood moves. Even my stable wood moves. Just a bit. More typically, my prepared boards stand for a while, and they move while they stand. But now, if I use a long plane on a board that has even a smidgeon of a cup, the dimensions will change. So I prefer to use a short plane to smooth. It can take off a little bit here and a little bit there, and flow along the fine hills and valleys of my boards without affecting the dimensions.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

You are all welcome to use whatever plane you want for smoothing, and experimenting with different planes is fun. But you'll have to pry my #4 from my cold dead hands! Smoothers have always been small planes, as far back as one can tell, for a reason.

After flattening a panel (electrical or with a try plane) it would be flat but not always very clean. Some tearout, some scratches, some planer snip or whatever. Now it would be easy to smooth it with a big panel plane like a #6. But why would you?

After flattening I will work on the joinery and the panel will invariably get marked and scratched. Also it will take time and in the mean time the weather changes resulting in slight (hopefully) warping. Just before assembly I'd like to clean up the showfaces of the panel, but want to remove as little as possible. Using a big smoothing plane would necessitate making the entire panel flat again, removing too much material. A small plane taking wispy shavings could do the job in short order.

After assembly I would probably need to do some more planing work to equalize the joints and to remove glue stains. The assembly is now big and unwieldy and using a big heavy plane wouldn't make things any easier.

So that's why I like a #4 or a small coffin smoother. Just like (almost) every other woodworking craftsman in the past.

David C can probably answer better than I but here's my thought on using his method: for machine processed boards that need only a little straightening and a little smoothing if one sets a longer plane to a smoothing thickness then you can make a pretty good go at doing both simultaneously.

That said, it's not a solution for every board and David says as much in his video. If I have rough boards then I use a much more traditional process through three planes - fore to try to smoother.

as a note, I sold my 5 1/4 with the intent on using it for a little rough work but didn't like it so thus the reintroduction of a jack sized plane. I'm hoping the lower angle frog will make up the difference in effort between the 5 1/4 and 5. In other words, I hope I won't find it to hard roughing with that extra 3/8".

[Derek Cohen]

Tony, if you plan to use a #5 1/2 for "roughing", as you write, I would send it back before you use it, and get a #5 - if you must have a longer plane. The extra 3/8" will be extra effort. Get the #5 with an extra blade.

Regrade from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony, if you plan to use a #5 1/2 for "roughing", as you write, I would send it back before you use it, and get a #5 - if you must have a longer plane. The extra 3/8" will be extra effort. Get the #5 with an extra blade.

Regrade from Perth

Derek

If I use it for roughing I won't use it much as I usually don't get rough boards. Is it much different than using a #6 for roughing. I can probably cancel the order now before it ships but should I?

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

I'm a newbie myself, but I like my combo consisting of Veritas Scrub and Custom #5-1/2 for roughing. Scrub has very big curvature and Custom has less. Custom #5-1/2 removes tracks from scrub much better than Custom #7 that I use after it. And its length helps to remove big hills that Scrub would just ride on. Probably, it is like using it as small rough try plane.

I also experiment with Veritas LAJ (bevel up) with heavily cambered blade for roughing. But at the moment I like they way Custom #5-1/2 works more. And they both have wide blades, LAJ a little narrower. The weight is OK for me, it weights 500 grams more than #5 but on the other hand less than #7.

I'm not planing all day long, so everything might work for me. :)

[Tony Wilkins]

Tony, if you plan to use a #5 1/2 for "roughing", as you write, I would send it back before you use it, and get a #5 - if you must have a longer plane. The extra 3/8" will be extra effort. Get the #5 with an extra blade.

Regrade from Perth

Derek

Decided to cancel the order and do more research. Might have to go with a five the first time. I really wish the sold extra chip breakers and blade carrier ring thingy on their own so I could change out blades as a unit like you can on existing Bailey pattern blades. Then I would be able to use the strength that the blade carrier offers in retaining blade/chip breaker placement.

[Derek Cohen]

Decided to cancel the order and do more research. Might have to go with a five the first time. I really wish the sold extra chip breakers and blade carrier ring thingy on their own so I could change out blades as a unit like you can on existing Bailey pattern blades. Then I would be able to use the strength that the blade carrier offers in retaining blade/chip breaker placement.

Setting the blade/chip breaker/blade carrier is actually easier than on a Bailey plane once you know how and do it a few times. The important element is that you do not remove the blade carrier. It remains attached to the chipbreaker all the time.

I wrote this procedure in the review on my website (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2.html). Here is the relevant extract ...

Once the blade has been sharpened, and the chipbreaker is to be replaced, you are going to reverse the process. However, an observation by Chris Schwarz (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/best-adjust-cap-iron-veritas-plane). Chris suggested first securing the blade carrier screw, and then the chipbreaker screw. Doing so the other way around will cause a tiny bit of movement of the chipbreaker, which is relevant when one is talking in fractions of a millimeter at the leading edge of the blade.

Below, loosening the screws ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_5b982e8d.jpg


Now, if you hold the blade and chipbreaker apart with your fingers …


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_3547d885.jpg


… there is sufficient space to slide the chipbreaker forward and over the end of the blade without touching the edge.




http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_m39825099.jpg


Of course, you will reverse this process when bringing them together. Just ensure that the slots in the blade carrier align with the slot in the blade.


Last point when removing or replacing a blade, tilt the body until the bed of the frog is horizontal for increased control …


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes2_html_m46d0d782.jpg


It is easier to adjust the chip breaker distance on the Custom plane as the screws and chip breaker gap both face you. On a Bailey plane they are on opposite sides, and generally the screw faces one, while the gap is on the opposite side.

I recommend that you invest in the ideal driver for this, which is a 3/32" hex head driver. While you are at it, get a small (2 oz) jeweller's hammer (I use this to laterally tweak Custom and Bailey blades) ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Mallets%20and%20hammers/Plane%20hammer/Custom-plane-tools1a_zpsa5jitese.jpg

The hex driver makes a big difference - using the hex key that Lee Valley send along is a prescription for frustration.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Wilkins]

Derek, the adjustment does look nice. However, what I was talking about is having an extra chip breaker so I don't have to pull apart a blade set for roughing to use the chip breaker to switch to a smoothing blade. * something easy to do with a Bailey style blade and chip breaker.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Derek, the adjustment does look nice. However, what I was talking about is having an extra chip breaker so I don't have to pull apart a blade set for roughing to use the chip breaker to switch to a smoothing blade. * something easy to do with a Bailey style blade and chip breaker.

[This is what I did as well. Ordered replacement blade with blade carrier. Each blade has the carrier fixed to it, which also determines where chip breaker will sit.]

[Tony Wilkins]

[This is what I did as well. Ordered replacement blade with blade carrier. Each blade has the carrier fixed to it, which also determines where chip breaker will sit.]

So the extra blades come with a blade carrier? That's great news if they do because it doesn't show in the pictures.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Tony

If you plan to use the chipbreaker to control tearout, you will need to set it each time to suit the conditions. There is no one-size-fits-all setting in this situation. For this reason, a second blade-plus-carrier is not relevant. Learn to set the chipbreaker.

If it is not your intention to use the chipbreaker, get a higher angle frog, say 50 degrees. Then you can have an extra blade set up ... because it will not matter where the chipbreaker is placed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andy Nichols]

Here's my worthless take on the subject:

Rob Cosman uses a 5 1/2 as his main bench plane, but his teacher was also Alan Peters....

I'm always leery of any advice that unequivocally states this is the best for "you" ;-)

When I'm preparing a common width board as a reference face, something 4" or wider, and more than 12 inches long, my go to smoother is a 5 1/2. It's also my workhorse for joining panels from those types of boards...may switch to one of my infill panel planes if it's difficult grain, but that's because I have them and they work on difficult grain.

Beyond that Kees is spot on, and for me it could be a tiny wood smoother, and infill miter, or a LN 4 1/2, or any of many other smoothers. My go to "Kees" smoother that lives on the bench is a Voigt coffin.

With all that rambling, the real answer is:

It depends ....and that's a huge spectrum of variables and causalities LOL

[Tony Wilkins]

Hi Tony

If you plan to use the chipbreaker to control tearout, you will need to set it each time to suit the conditions. There is no one-size-fits-all setting in this situation. For this reason, a second blade-plus-carrier is not relevant. Learn to set the chipbreaker.

If it is not your intention to use the chipbreaker, get a higher angle frog, say 50 degrees. Then you can have an extra blade set up ... because it will not matter where the chipbreaker is placed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

That seems to be the advantage of the Veritas custom (and to a lesser degree the LN) in that you can change frogs to any angle, use the chip breaker, or even go with a single iron.

Still want to know: do the extra blades come with their own blade carrier (ring to mount it to plane)?

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

So the extra blades come with a blade carrier? That's great news if they do because it doesn't show in the pictures.

Well, you have to add it to the basket too, then it comes together :)

Actually no, it is another item that you have to order separately. It was in spare parts on my German web shop, around 10€. There is also chip breaker in spare parts available separately.

[Tony Wilkins]

Well, you have to add it to the basket too, then it comes together :)

Actually no, it is another item that you have to order separately. It was in spare parts on my German web shop, around 10€. There is also chip breaker in spare parts available separately.

Havent been able to find them on the US site.

[Jim Koepke]

Havent been able to find them on the US site.

It might be necessary to call customer service on this.

jtk

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Havent been able to find them on the US site.

Indeed, they are nowhere to find there... I bought it here: https://www.fine-tools.com/custombenchplanesaccessories.html

Have no idea where else to find them... Nobody else lists them.

[Graham Haydon]

Hi Tony

Hope you're keeping well! Have you got a decent Bailey #5? If you have, keep going with that or if you haven't, track one down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65sVCcvewB0
Then, keep going with making some simple pieces.

[Phil Mueller]

You may want to call customer service - not everything available is on the site. I was after an odd part and the customer service person gave me the item code. You then just add that code into the memo box when checking out and they add it to the order.

[Tony Wilkins]

Indeed, they are nowhere to find there... I bought it here: https://www.fine-tools.com/custombenchplanesaccessories.html

Have no idea where else to find them... Nobody else lists them.


You may want to call customer service - not everything available is on the site. I was after an odd part and the customer service person gave me the item code. You then just add that code into the memo box when checking out and they add it to the order.

ill double check if I finally go this route but combing your two responses I wonder if the code number is 325435


Hi Tony

Hope you're keeping well! Have you got a decent Bailey #5? If you have, keep going with that or if you haven't, track one down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65sVCcvewB0
Then, keep going with making some simple pieces.

I don't have a decent #5. I have looked from time to time but have a hard time spending $150 for one.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

ill double check if I finally go this route but combing your two responses I wonder if the code number is 325435


Nope, that German site has its own numbers, not related to Lee Valley item numbers, sorry... If only I could find the plastic bag that came with blade carrier...

[Tony Wilkins]

Nope, that German site has its own numbers, not related to Lee Valley item numbers, sorry... If only I could find the plastic bag that came with blade carrier...
No problem. I can email them.

[Graham Haydon]

$150, spicy.

[Tony Wilkins]

$150, spicy.

Spicy? Is that some English colloquial?

[Graham Haydon]

Kinda, I was asserting the price was "hot"

[Tony Wilkins]

Kinda, I was asserting the price was "hot"

Insee them for cheaper but they're sold before I get to them. I'm a lot more open to one since watching Richard Maguire's sharpening videos.