Dust Collectors

[Joe Koren]

Ok, so ummmm .... also any opinions about which dust collector is best?

Thanks,
Joe

As you can see I am still building a shop and am just getting it together.

[Richard Wolf]

Onieda Cyclone, so you will not have the need to upgrade.

Richard

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Joe.....just do a search using the search button...search for "cyclone dust collectors".....read til you drop about the feelings of members on dust collection......Good luck with your decison!

[Jim Hager]

Well all I can say is that the Grizzly dust collectors that I've got really suck:D

[Joe Mioux]

Joe:

If you go with a commercially built cyclone, you are not going to be dissapointed. For the money Grizzly or Oneida's Gorilla will do the job. There are others that are just as good, Woodsucker, etc. I don't mean to leave any out, but these are the three that come to mind.

You can build one, but putting pencil to paper, it is almost as cheap to buy one of the above models. However, you won't have the satisfaction of saying "yea I built this myself"!

If you are serious buy or build a cyclone.

That is not to say other dust collectors can pick up the sawdust, but they won't pick up all the fine-hazardous-to-health dust particles that will float around your shop while you are sawing, sanding, grinding or noching (:eek: ).

OK, I got carried away on the last one.

READ: Bill Pentz's analysis on dust collection systems and you will come away with a better appreciation for the benefits of a cyclone.

Joe

[Ed Lang]

I was in your shoes just weeks ago. Read and then read more. The ClearVue Cyclone that is build on Bill Pentz plans is the route I went. I have just hooked it up to a ShopBot tonight and surfaced a full sheet of MDF and WOW the cyclone did fantastic. I just cannot believe it will seperate such fine dust from the air! If you call ClearVue, I expect you will speak with Ed, he a pleasure to speak with and do business with. I am sure you will not go wrong by using a Bill Pentz designed unit.

Good luck and let us all know what way you went.

[Frank Pellow]

About a Year ago, I had to make the same decision and I went with the Oneida 2hp commercial cyclone fr my 480 sq foot shop. I am happy with it.

If I had waited a year, I could have saved myself some money and purchased the Oneida Dust Gorilla. If your shop is about the same size as mine, that is what I suggest you get.

[Todd Franks]

My current DC is a 2hp Jet canister. I have a small basement shop with 6" S&D pipe run to all machines. In hind sight I should not have tried to "save" money and purchased a cyclone system instead. I'm disappointed with the amount of air it moves. The filter clogs way too quickly which further reduces air flow. I remove and clean the filter 2-3 times per bag change. Changing bags and simply removing the filter creates huge dust clouds defeating the original purpose of fine dust collection. It is hard to get the hose, bag, and filter on the positive pressure side of the blower leak free so that it does not blow dust back into the air. The DC itself and the corner of the shop where the DC sits is covered in fine dust.

Once my woodworking budget does a reset for the 2006 calender year, I'm going to purchase and setup a ClearVue system. I'm sure you'll get feedback from happy canister owners, but I just wanted to throw my vote in for an unhappy canister owner, wishing they had bought a cyclone instead.

-Todd

[Don Frambach]

I have an 1.5 hp Oneida cyclone. Really well made. Wish I got the 2 hp though.

[Steven Wilson]

Ok, so ummmm .... also any opinions about which dust collector is best?

Hmmm how about a 100HP Torrit? Knowing nothing about your shop, machine layout, and machines your using, and budget it's impossible to answer your question. Layout your machines, figure the ductwork, and then size the DC to match. For me an Oneida 2HP commercial was the proper machine. If my shop was much larger then I would have gone with a 3HP Oneida or a Felder RL160

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I currently am using the el-cheapo Harbor Freight 2HP dust collector. It does a great job. I am thinking of going to 6 in pipe, but other than that, it sure does keep my shop clean.

It all depends on what your needs are and what you can spend :)

[Byron Trantham]

I have the Delta 1.5HP and like it. When I did the research (several years ago) I couldn't use a cyclone because I didn't have enough ceiling height. Truth be known, I don't care how good the system is, some tools make a mess! I put a floor sweep in my system and use it a lot.:p Good luck with your choice.

[Rob Russell]

If money isn't a concern, look at the Felder DC's. They are HEPA-level clean (cleaner than any of the above mentioned cyclones) and have large, easy to empty chip/dust bins. They're also expensive - the RL160 is $3K+.

[Joe Koren]

First, thank you for all the posts so far. I suppose I should give more information about the shop so here it is.

The shop will be in a garage. The garage space is 20 feet deep by 18 feet wide, ceiling height is about 9 or 10 feet. I have coming a Mini-Max CU300 Smart (2002 version), so I will be moving the hose from the port to port during set up. I also have a Dewalt 12 miter saw. Eventually, I will add a sanding table for use with my orbital sander and hand-held belt sander, a band saw 16 or 20 inch, and I can't think of any other big thing I am missing ...

I suspect the dust collector will be going near the front corner where it is easiest to remove the dust and drag it out side. Since I am still waiting for most all of my equipment to arrive I am still very much in the "where should it go" phase.

Joe

[Tom Conger]

Not to derail the thread, but what are your guys general thoughts on ambient air cleaners? I have been looking at the Delta AP200 Shopmaster Air Cleaner.

[Mike Weaver]

Not to derail the thread, but what are your guys general thoughts on ambient air cleaners? I have been looking at the Delta AP200 Shopmaster Air Cleaner.

My thought is to capture the dust BEFORE it gets to the air...:D

Sorry, I don't have specific opinions on which air cleaner is best.
I have a Woodtek I bought before Bill Pentz info opened my eyes...it helps clean the air, but how much, I don't know.

Cheers,
-Mike

[Tom Conger]

Makes sense.

Having read some of Bill's site, I get the picture that dust is bad and good DC is needed, no, REQUIERD!, but I am in a small garage and a full blown DC system looks like overkill. Plus it seems to cost a whole lot more than an air cleaner.

My thought was to grab an air cleaner, then when funds become available, get some type of DC system. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

[Joe Koren]

but if I am reading the static pressure and CMF curves correctly (and I am not totally sure I am), the Clearvue is far outpacing the Oneida PennIndustries and others. I suppose it is the 5HP motor compared with the the 2HP or 3HP motors but I am suprised.

From the comments it also appears that they are easy to put together and everyone has been pleased.

I definately am leaning to getting one. Thank you everyone for the comments.

Joe

[Andy Hoyt]

I've got a 2 HP Oneida that is fabulous. As a matter of fact, just today I tapped into it for the purpose of hooking up a dust hood for my lathe.

But this system does nothing for the dust created by power handtools. Yes, I have a home built sanding table connected to the DC but once the project gets big enough, one has to (for instance) sand on the workbench. And that process still puts a ton of dust in the air for me to breathe and to weigh down my shelves. Strange how the dusty shelves bothers me more.

So..... What are your thoughts about those air cleaners. JET, JDS, and Delta are the names that come to mind. Do they work? And tips on where to locate it in the shop would be interesting to read.

[Allan Johanson]

I'm another happy Bill Pentz cyclone owner. A well designed cyclone can remove even ultra-fine dust from the airstream and it'll help to make sure your filters don't get clogged in a hurry.

For small tools like my palm sander, I've made a dedicated hose for my shop vac that takes care of this dust. I've installed a near-HEPA filter in my shop vac to take care of the fine dust.

For those of you in Tom's shoes with a limited budget and no kind of DC or air cleaner yet, I'd probably go this route:

#1 - Buy a quality cartridge respirator and fit it with HEPA filters

#2 - Buy a basic 1.5HP DC and move it from machine to machine with a short length of flex hose. If your shop is small then you can try plumbing a short duct network with 5" HVAC pipe for better performance compared to 4" pipe. The 1.5HP DC will run on 120V and you won't need to pay anyone to install a 240V circuit.

#3 - I've had mixed results with a ceiling mounted air cleaner and as a result rarely use it anymore, but if you want one you can build your own. Go to an HVAC place and see if they'll give you (for free) a used furnace squirrel cage fan. Sometimes you might have to pay them a few bucks for it. Buy some furnace filters and build a wooden box to hold the fan and filters. There are plenty of ideas for this on the net and in various magazines.

Cheers,

Allan

[Cecil Arnold]

I've got a 2 HP Oneida that is fabulous. As a matter of fact, just today I tapped into it for the purpose of hooking up a dust hood for my lathe.

But this system does nothing for the dust created by power handtools. Yes, I have a home built sanding table connected to the DC but once the project gets big enough, one has to (for instance) sand on the workbench. And that process still puts a ton of dust in the air for me to breathe and to weigh down my shelves. Strange how the dusty shelves bothers me more.

So..... What are your thoughts about those air cleaners. JET, JDS, and Delta are the names that come to mind. Do they work? And tips on where to locate it in the shop would be interesting to read.

Andy, have you considered Festool? Their vac coupled with a ROS works great, very little dust escapes.

[Andy Hoyt]

Cecil - looked at the price and ran like a rabbit. Seriously, I'm clumsy enough as it is and adding a dust hose to a handhelld tool is an invitation to have an "event" in the shop. Besides, I'm not of a mind to replace my exisiting toolage just for this issue. But thanks.

[Rob Russell]

Andy, have you considered Festool? Their vac coupled with a ROS works great, very little dust escapes.

Cecil,

A shop vac is fine for collecting dust from a small tool like a sander, but it's a whole different story for machines like planers, table saws, shapers or bandsaws. For those machines you need a lot of air moving to carry the chips/dust to the collector and a shop vac just doesn't move that much air. The shop vac will pickup nuts and bolts from the workshop floor where a DC may not have the suction to do that, but the DC is moving lot more air.

Rob

[Karl Laustrup]

So..... What are your thoughts about those air cleaners. JET, JDS, and Delta are the names that come to mind. Do they work? And tips on where to locate it in the shop would be interesting to read.

Andy, I've had the JDS filter for a little over a year now. It does a pretty good job of clearing dust particles from the air. I used to use it whenever I was working, but since getting my Oneida, I use it when I'm doing something that I can't hook up to the D/C. I also use it in the summer to keep the air moving.

I have mine mounted above where I usually do my sanding, which is also about 5' from the long wall in my shop. The idea, from what I've been told is to keep it so it creates it's own current around your shop. Not sure if that is supposed to keep the dust circulating until the filter can grab it, or make sure there is an even distribution of dust throughout the shop. :confused: ;) :D

Check out their site http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=2 . If the whole thing doesn't work google jdstools. Got mine from WoodCraft. Look for one of their coupon sales.

I'm not affiliated with JDS. Just a satisfied consumer.

Karl

[Cecil Arnold]

Rob, if you read my reply closely you will see that I quoted Andy's post in which he states that he has a 2 hp Oneida. I am aware of the DC requirements for large stationalr tools, however I was responding to his concerns of dust collection for power hand tools.

[Andy Hoyt]

[quote=Karl Laustrup I have mine mounted above where I usually do my sanding, which is also about 5' from the long wall in my shop. The idea, from what I've been told is to keep it so it creates it's own current around your shop. Not sure if that is supposed to keep the dust circulating until the filter can grab it, or make sure there is an even distribution of dust throughout the shop.[/quote]

Thanks Karl. I checked the JDS website and while very informative about their machinery, it said nothing with respect to optimal placement of the unit except that the ceiling is best. I know every shop is unique, but I'm wondering if there are any "rules of thumb" for advantageous positioning proximal to dust producing areas.

For instance, you set yours above where you do the bulk of your sanding. I wonder if (and this is nothing more than an idea) moving it five or six feet away would actually be a better spot for capturing the same dust?

Or what if you had a fan blowing at the dust producing area and placing the air cleaner inlet side downwind of said area?

Or does it just not matter?

[Karl Laustrup]

Or what if you had a fan blowing at the dust producing area and placing the air cleaner inlet side downwind of said area?

Or does it just not matter?

You have brought questions that I don't have an answers for. Which is not unusual, I mostly have more questions than answers. :o

I guess I've convinced myself that the way I have mine positioned is doing the most good in my case. My garage/shop is 30' X 24' and I've wondered about possibly getting another JDS filter/cleaner. Hey, if one is good, two would be better, right?

It would be nice to have some expert answers though.

Karl

[Allan Johanson]

I'm no expert, but to me the key is making sure the dust isn't getting in your lungs so you need to keep the dust cloud away from your face.

If you are in a situation where you are making dust in front of you, and the intake of the air cleaner is behind you, then your head is directly in the dust-laden airstream. It may be better if you never had an air cleaner in this case.

But if you were making sawdust at your bench and you had a fan blowing the dust sideways - not in line with your face and then some kind of air cleaner to catch the dust then you might be doing OK.

Maybe. :eek:

It's hard for the hobbyist to know if they are helping or hurting themselves with these units. Like smoking, we all know folks who are fine after 30 years of smoking and living in a polluted city. But I'm sure we all know folks who weren't as lucky and now they have respiratory problems. Each person is different as are their working conditions.

I'm just not a fan of intentionally working in a swirling dust cloud. I'd rather catch the dust at the source or keep away from the dusty areas. If the shop air was dusty then I'd turn on the air cleaner and leave the shop.

Cheers,

Allan

[Dan Larson]

I've got a 2 HP Oneida that is fabulous. As a matter of fact, just today I tapped into it for the purpose of hooking up a dust hood for my lathe.

But this system does nothing for the dust created by power handtools. Yes, I have a home built sanding table connected to the DC but once the project gets big enough, one has to (for instance) sand on the workbench. And that process still puts a ton of dust in the air for me to breathe and to weigh down my shelves. Strange how the dusty shelves bothers me more.

So..... What are your thoughts about those air cleaners. JET, JDS, and Delta are the names that come to mind. Do they work? And tips on where to locate it in the shop would be interesting to read.

Andy,

As others have pointed out, catching dust at the source is the best solution. But if that's not possible, then here's an option to consider.

Instead of spending money on one of those air cleaners, why don't you just leave your Oneida running with a couple of the blast gates open when you want to filter airborne dust in your shop? Your cyclone moves >1000 cfm, so in theory it should be able to turn over the air in your shop in a matter of minutes. I would think opening gates furthest away from the cyclone filter would maximize the efficiency of removing the airborne dust by stirring up the air in your shop as much as possible.

I'm no expert in the area of air filtration, but this approach makes rational sense to me.

Dan

[Andy Hoyt]

Dan --- This was something I tried early on and it was only marginally effective. I think that was the case because all the ducting leads to deep within the machines and therefore doesn't get a chance to do much for the general population of airborne dust.

However, I've also just today added a second floor sweep and a lathe dust hood (yesterday) to the DC system, so perhaps this will improve the idea. I'll try it and let you know.

I think that while a somewhat pricey experiment I'll also go ahead and get one of these air cleaners. Can't hurt, that's for sure. Don't know how soon, but at least it's now on the list.


I really appreciate all of the ideas here.Thanks guys.

[Don Baer]

Andy,
Although I don't have one in my present shop it is definitly on my list for my future shop (Stealth gloat). I have been doing some reading and from what I can tell is that you should locate it so the the air intake is in front of you so it will draw the dust away from you and filter it out. I'll try to find some info and post it when I find it.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

........

That is not to say other dust collectors can pick up the sawdust, but they won't pick up all the fine-hazardous-to-health dust particles that will float around your shop while you are sawing, sanding, grinding or noching (:eek: ).

OK, I got carried away on the last one.

READ: Bill Pentz's analysis on dust collection systems and you will come away with a better appreciation for the benefits of a cyclone.

Joe

what the heck is noching?

[Andy Hoyt]

what the heck is noching?

Dennis - this is a middle eastern woodworking term related to the removal of wood by means of biting, tearing, and ripping the wastewood away with your teeth. It derives from the middle eastern word "gnosh", which pretty much describes the same action but with food instead of wood.

[Jim Andrew]

Joe, be sure to go with a cyclone, it is worth the difference. I have a
woodsucker and it is worth every penny. Whatever size you think you can get by with, increase a size. That will save you upgrading when you
get a bigger piece of equipment. I have an 18" woodmaster planer, and
after increasing the hood to a 6" pipe, the woodsucker keeps the air clean
in the shop. But with only one gate open at a time. If you plan to use
2 openings at a time, get a bigger cyclone. By the way the woodsucker is
2 hp. Jim

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Thanks Andy, BTW I have a woodsucker and am very satisfied with it. I imagine I'd be just as satisfied with any of the other premium cyclone too.

[Steven Wilson]

Not to derail the thread, but what are your guys general thoughts on ambient air cleaners? I have been looking at the Delta AP200 Shopmaster Air Cleaner.

An air cleaner will do absolutely nothing for you while you're creating the dust (your lungs are breathing the same air as the cleaner). I have an air cleaner and use it to filter the air over night to pick up any stray dust prior to finishing. For hand held tools I use Festool sanders and a Festool vac - great system. To pick up the dust from hand sanding I will use a small downdraft sanding box attached to the festool vac. Or I use scrapers and other planes and make shavings not dust. If making dust is unavoidable I wear a respirator.