Laminated workbench tops, cutting boards, whatever vs. solid wood.

[Paul K. Johnson]

I really need room in my shop to have a decent table saw. Even if it takes years before I buy a real table saw and keep using my DeWalt contractor saw, I need to put a router extension on whatever saw I have and the Incra fence I've had sitting in a corner for five years. I can only do that if I get rid of the router table to make space for the increase in saw size.

So I want to make my own router extension. I could use melamine or something but I also want something more substantial.

I have a 2" thick piece of maple about 8"-10" wide and 6' long.

In general my belief is that a more stable slab is made by laminating. I don't know if that's true or not because I don't do that kind of work. So my question is would it be better to cut up the slab and join the wide pieces together to make the top or would it be better to cut it into slices about 1-3/4" wide and turn them sideways to end up with a slab 1-1/2" thick after surfacing everything flush and flat?

And as far as it goes, will turning the wood sideways increase likelihood of it cupping over time?

Basically I want to end up with something that is solid, about 1-1/2 to 2" thick and as stable as possible. I can save wood by using partial pieces on each side where the cut-out for the lift will go. The hole will be under-size and then machined to final size.

I'll attach it to the fence rails and possible let in a piece of angle iron spaced away from the top enough to put a nut and a wrench so it can be bolted to the saw top (only on a real saw, not the DeWalt which can't begin to handle the stress). I can also add legs or diagonal supports to the saw base I built for more support if necessary. Attachment isn't the problem. I'm really just asking about making the top.

Thanks,

- Paul

[Jim Andrew]

I built a router table top 1 1/2" thick, from 3/4" boards. Finished it all over before fastening it to the cabinet. Has stayed flat. The wood had been in the shop for long enough to aclimate.

[Paul K. Johnson]

Jim - so would you cut my chunk of maple into strips to laminate or just join a few pieces of it to get the finished size?

[Prashun Patel]

Workbenches are often made with strips narrow enough to provide a quartersawn profile. The theory is that each quartersawn piece will resist cupping, and putting a bunch of them together will further keep each individual honest.

[Andrew Hughes]

I just don't see maple staying very flat esp for a router table.Your in Florida with high humidity.
It will be fun to try and something to learn how maple behaves.
But in the end plywood with supports under to keep everything flat is very proven build no matter where you live.
Good luck

[David Eisenhauer]

My experience with maple is that it cups when exposed to moisture. A router table may be a good place for a thick MDF top, especially if you can cover it all over with some laminate. This is one area where MDF works well, given that it should not get actually wet.

[Paul K. Johnson]

I purchased the super-duper router table package from Woodpeckers. That's the setup I'm still using. The first top was cracked at the corner of the miter/t-slot insert. They sent me a free replacement and never sent a pickup for the original so it's just sitting in my living room leaned up against a wall. It's a huge top that is 1-1/2" or 1-3/4" thick. I think it's two layers of 3/4".

Anyway, the second top isn't exactly flat and causes problems at times.

I could take the cracked top and cut it down on the opposite end. That would mean cutting out the hole for the router plate. Not a big deal. I have no idea how flat it is. It may be curved from leaning on the wall for five or seven years. It may be fine. I'll take a look at it.

This week I plan to take another look at adding the Incra to my DeWalt. If I buy a new saw soon I'll swap it over. And I won't feel bad that I can't use the router extension I made since it will be from a useless router table top instead of putting a lot of work into a laminated maple extension.

[Matt Day]

Are you building a router table extension or a bench?

I had a router table extension for about 10 years that was simply 3/4 mdf top and poplar support frame beneath (bolted to the fence rails with legs at the end). Worked great as a RT and staging area. My shop is 17x17. I don't see where a thick laminated bench style top would have been beneficial at all in my case. It would have been a waste of time and material. I'm currently building a similar one for my new Saw with Melamine.

[Paul K. Johnson]

It's an extension. The reason I like hardwood instead of MDF is that I'm going to sink some screws into the lip at the leveling points of the router plate and if I use 3/4 MDF or Melamine there just isn't a lot of material there for the screws. I don't trust them not to sink in over time and have me always pulling my hair out getting the plate flush with the table surface.

Another reason is that last time I laminated wood I totally botched it. I didn't pay attention to the grain and had pieces running in both directions so no matter how I planed it I got a lot of tear-out. Plane in one direction and some of the boards are good. Plane in the other direction and the bad boards turn good and the good boards turn bad. So I want to do some more of it just to learn the skill and I'd like it to be with things I actually use. I don't need cutting boards and I have no space for a bench (yet).

Lastly, I'm a huge fan of over-kill. I don't like things to be adequate. I want them way more than adequate.

But yeah, I know a laminated table isn't necessary.

[glenn bradley]

I hear you as to your thoughts on a solid wood top. Like a workbench, you can always flatten it with hand planes if it wears or moves. Rather than chance that I can tell my tale. . . I believe a router table top is a good place for a couple layers of 3/4" MDF laminated to each other. Even double layered the panel will flex enough to conform to the nice flat well supporting surface frame you screw it to. If your hardwood top decides to move and is too restricted it will buckle or split. Composites will not.

In a router table role I wouldn't leave any span of the top unsupported for more than 10 or 12 inches. Well supported, the top will remain flat, stable, and provide good service. Most problems reported about MDF or phenolic tops not being flat are due to what they are attached to, not because the material is inconsistent in thickness. After experiencing sag on a top that was supported as it came from the factory I built a new version and support it on 1-1/2" ribs something like so:

357530

I learned to leave an adequate overhand at the sides and front for clamping various jigs and fixtures to. It started out and has stayed flat for many years through some pretty rigorous use.

[Chris Hachet]

I just don't see maple staying very flat esp for a router table.Your in Florida with high humidity.
It will be fun to try and something to learn how maple behaves.
But in the end plywood with supports under to keep everything flat is very proven build no matter where you live.
Good luckQuoted for truth....my Beech woodworking hand tool bench moves a good bit, the plywood out feed table and plywood extension on my Unisaw are Rock solid.

[Chris Schoenthal]

Every table (router, drill press, bandsaw, even tablesaw) that I've seen plans for building is suggested by using 2 glued up pieces of MDF or plywood with a laminate on top.
That seems to be the most flattest to begin with and the most stable over time.

[John TenEyck]

Another vote here for 2 layers of MDF or Baltic birch plywood. There's no reason to overbuild. There are good reasons not to use hardwood, especially expansion/contraction happy maple. Composites are stable; solid wood isn't. For a machine tabletop you want stable.

If you are worried about the leveling screws sinking then route the recess a little deeper and glue in a rim of hardwood or aluminum bar stock for the screws to bear against.

John

[Jeff Duncan]

I'm in the same camp as many of the others here, a couple layers of mdf with a laminate surface for wear. That's what my router table top is made of and has held up for about 20 years or so now. Sometimes overbuilding is NOT a good thing, and when you have what may not be the best material for the job, overusing it doesn't necessarily make things better.

My opinion....save the maple for a project where you can really enjoy it;)

good luck,
JeffD

[Dan Hahr]

I really don't think two layers of MDF are really necessary either. One layer attached to a frame comprised of straight, flat pieces would be plenty strong and easier to keep flat.

I would put some laminate on it. The local laminate shop has given me pieces of scrap that were plenty big enough for shop tables. Once they scratch a sheet, its usually trash.

Dan

[Matt Roth]

Here's another vote for double thick 3/4 mdf. I've found it plenty thick to hold screws, even after recessing the router plate. I've never messed with adding laminate. It's been flat for over 5 years now.

[Paul K. Johnson]

OK, so the general consensus is that nobody wants me to use MDF and everyone wants me to laminate some cocobolo to make the top. :)

I'm still wondering about my original question though - forget the part about what it's used for. Is there a purpose for laminating or is it better to use a large slab if you have it?

Again, my understanding is that laminated surfaces will be much more warp/cup-resistant. Is that true?

Also, the extra router table top I have is laminated with something golf-ball like. I have no other purpose for it and it's already double-thick MDF with a laminate on it so it would be a whole lot faster for me to just cut a chunk off of it, cut it to size and use it.

[Prashun Patel]

"Is there a purpose for laminating or is it better to use a large slab if you have it?
Again, my understanding is that laminated surfaces will be much more warp/cup-resistant. Is that true?"

Refer to my Post #4 below.

To follow up, if you are going to laminate FLATSAWN pieces, then the theory is that if you alternate the growth ring orientation (one up, one down, etc) then half the boards will cup one way, half will cup the other, providing a wavy - but level - surface. I don't subscribe to that method of construction when flat really counts. For a desk or occasional table, perhaps, but not for a bench or glossy show piece.

[Paul K. Johnson]

That makes sense but I think that's what caused the problem with the laminated surface I did make. Some had grain one way and others had grain the other way so no matter what I got tear-out when planing it flat.

I'm a novice with hand-planes so I'm sure that someone better would know what to do to avoid the tear-out. I closed the mouth as much as possible and set the chip breaker about 1/64 from the cutting edge. I also set it to take thin shavings. One reason I did that is because I was learning and didn't want to decrease the thickness too much because I was pretty sure I would remove more wood than necessary to flatten it just because I don't know what I'm doing.

That was for a mobile sharpening station and the top is made from 2 x 6's. It ended up being 2-1/4" thick I believe. Still haven't finished it because I ran out of the product I sell which is why I never finish any personal projects.

[Paul K. Johnson]

PS. Prashun I did see your post but forgot about it. Thanks!

[Robert Stanton]

I suppose you haven't considered a cast iron bolt on? It does cost extra but there will never be any warping issues.

[Paul K. Johnson]

Hi Robert,

Yes, that would be my preference but none of them fit my DeWalt and even if they did the table saw top could never begin to support that kind of weight. The top is cast aluminum less than 1/8" thick.

So last night I finally installed my Incra Fence. It's next to impossible to align the blade on this saw. It's way out of whack with the miter slots but still works ok. I got it aligned with the fence.

Now I can't move in my shop. The saw became huge.

I took that extra router table top I have and cut it down to make the extension. I will be mounting it tonight. The fence rails will have to fully support it. I think they're up to the task. If not then I can add some braces to the table saw base I made that will further support the router table top.

I have to get that up and running as quickly as possible so I can tear down my router table, move the drill press where that table was and then the saw will fit as long as I only make cross-cuts or short rips.

If I need to make longer cuts then I have to roll out the saw and turn it 90 degrees. I think it will all work out. But the problem with this is I need all those tools working so before I put the fence on I had to ensure I could get all the other jobs done as well or I'd be where I am now - no room to move in the shop and getting all cut up trying to move around the saw and getting hacked by the edges of the extruded fence rails.

On my way to the shop now.

Bonus: Received two new Forrest blades today - a 30 tpi thin rip and a 70 TPI veneer blade. :D