Beekeepers - working any swarms?

[John K Jordan]

Anyone dealing with swarms now? I've had two big swarms in the last two days.

The first swarmed from my largest hive while I was inspecting the other hives! Amazing sight and sound! Unfortunately it balled up about 35' high in a pine tree. I have a 24' pole with a swarm catching ring/bag. Pulling a redneck maneuver I could just barely reach it standing on a couple of platforms on top the cab of my truck. (I did have a branch to hold onto.) It was not a clear path the the swarm so I was fighting with snagging pine branches and captured only a small portion of the bees each of five tries. I evidently didn't get the queen (or she didn't approve of the box) because the bees abandoned the new box after a couple of hours.

Then about noon today I found another large swarm hanging in the same tree. (Actually, I don't know if it was the same swarm from yesterday or a new one.) This one was only about 20' up and was far easier to bump but so large it still took me four tries to get the bulk of it. I guess I got the queen since the bees calmed down and stayed in the new box all day feeding like crazy on a winter pattie. Tomorrow if they are still there I'll start syrup feeding and add half a super of capped honey from the freezer to get them started.

The bees in the other hives are bringing in a lot of pollen and nectar, starting to fill up some of the empty super frames. All have many frames of brood.

How are your bees so far this year?

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

No swarms here but I'm looking for one. I want to add one more hive.

Mike

[Lee Schierer]

No swarms here yet, but I would love to find a couple.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Oh jeez, was setting up to grill something outside, there was a swarm of honey bees flying about in the yard. The sound was amazing and for a non bee keeper, it's a bit intimidating. Most of the information on the web said not to worry, the honey bees are just swarming and kind of between homes and will leave. Well they decided to take up home in my house in the soffit near where I was setting up the grill. Have a beekeeper coming over to remove and relocate the bees to a new home, the bee keeper said he has removed bees 20 - 30 times this spring.

[Jim Becker]

No swarming in this area yet, either...the weather has been so crazy that it's seeming the season is starting slowing. I do have a trap almost ready to go, however, just to see if we can catch something.

Both of our first year colonies did make it through the winter strong, so we're starting off from a good place and will be trying some splits as well as adding another NUC of local genetics.

[Tony Zona]

How do you guys find swarms? I live out near a big woods. It used to be all country, and now development is encroaching, but I have never seen a swarm in the 33 years I have been here. (Thank goodness.)

And you guys see them. I don't understand. Or do the swarms find you because other bees are around?

[Mike Henderson]

One way to find them is to give your name to the local police dept. They get calls about bees all the time. Of course, they don't do anything except tell the caller to call a beekeeper or an exterminator.

Now, the bad thing. Some of the calls will involve insects other than honey bees. Some calls will involve established hives in walls, etc. Around here, you have to be licensed to take them out of walls.

But if you're willing to put up with the false alarms, you can get some swarms.

Mike

[Rich Riddle]

John,

We can't start concentrating on bees until next year but your post is a nice reminder. You should have posted a picture of yourself on top of your truck on your tiptoes.

[John K Jordan]

How do you guys find swarms? I live out near a big woods. It used to be all country, and now development is encroaching, but I have never seen a swarm in the 33 years I have been here. (Thank goodness.) And you guys see them. I don't understand. Or do the swarms find you because other bees are around?

Tony,

Most those I see and get are from my own hives. They usually stop and "hang" out in a tree close to my hives for at least a day. Bees usually seem to swarm between 10am and noon so that is a good time to check.

BTW, don't ever worry about honeybee swarms. Even if they accumulate on your bush or porch they are no hazard. Swarming honey bees are moving to a new location so each one is full of honey to help the new colony get started. When bees are stuffed with honey they don't sting. Unless you disturb them significantly. Regardless where they stop for a while, they will be gone in a day or two. That is, unless they find a nice opening into an attractively-sized cavity in your attic or wall or shed.

Yes, someone actively looking for swarms to capture can give his name to the local fire department, police department, animal control people. Let the local beekeeping club know in case there are swarms no one else has time or can get. I don't do any of that since I have enough hives.

Someone willing to cut houses apart to get honeybees from inside of walls and attics you might get plenty of calls since very few people will do that.

I have removed them from neighbors yards when they ask nicely. I did successfully remove one from a big tree last summer. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245812-Creeker-s-Weekend-Accomplishments&p=2588399#post2588399 That hive is doing fine this year.

JKJ

[Robert LaPlaca]

One way to find them is to give your name to the local police dept. They get calls about bees all the time. Of course, they don't do anything except tell the caller to call a beekeeper or an exterminator.

Now, the bad thing. Some of the calls will involve insects other than honey bees. Some calls will involve established hives in walls, etc. Around here, you have to be licensed to take them out of walls.

But if you're willing to put up with the false alarms, you can get some swarms.

Mike

Well in my case the Charlotte bee keepers have a website with a list of bee keepers who will work with homeowners to resolve swarm issues and removal, some will only remove the swarm from other than a structure, some from structures..

[Jim Becker]

Tony, the other aspects of swarms is that sometimes they are not necessarily "seen", but they are still there since swarming is a natural occurrence and is a way that the bee colonies help to control growth and stay strong. When a queen and a bunch of bees leave a hive (man-made or natural), there are often some percentage of bees left behind along with some new queen cells (swarm cells in this case) that allow a new queen to come into play and start that part of the colony growing again. Sometimes, the bees swarm because they have run out of space.. And sometimes 'just because'... :) Remember...they are for the most part, all girls. :D (that's meant to be humorous, not sexist)

Many beekeepers will put out swarm traps to capture bees who are looking for a new home. That means "free bees" to grow their own operation because it's remarkably simple to transfer a swarm into a new-to-them hive. They are also usually of strong "local" genetics which can help with overwintering and resistance to pests like varoa mites. I'm planning on putting a trap on a friend's property that's a few miles from here and see what that brings since Professor Dr. SWMBO and I plan on increasing the number of colonies we support this year, which is our second year as beeks.

[Tony Zona]

Which brings another question to mind.

How do you beekeepers keep the ones you have in your own hives?

[Jim Becker]

"In general", while there's no absolutely assurance that you can keep bees from swarming, regular hive checks will allow the beek to see the signs of impending swarming and then they can take action to add space, do a "split" (which is essentially a man-made "swarm") into 2 or more separate colonies/hives, etc. A lot of it comes down to timing and making sure that the colony is happy. :)

[Lee Schierer]

And sometimes 'just because'... :) Remember...they are for the most part, all girls. :D (that's meant to be humorous, not sexist)

Not only that, but the workers "girls" toss out nearly all the drones (males) as soon as it gets cold in the fall.:eek:

[Tony Zona]

My tale of bees doesn't include harvesting honey.

We bought this hundred-year-old farmhouse 32 years ago. It was a wreck needing complete rebuilding. (I wonder why we did that?)

On the first floor north wall a friend and I probed the plaster wall. I had intended to keep it, but one spot seemed punky. So my friend tapped it, and found it was crumbled. We decided to tear it out, and out came angry bees. More bees than I ever saw in my life. The large window in that wall was open and they turned and headed outside through it as we headed toward the back door. It was early March and cold. They seemed to die almost immediately as they hit the outside air.

The end of the story was us having to removing from the spaces between a dozen studs, foundation to roofline, bees and honey. About a third of the hives were dead and stinking. Stinking, really.

It delayed our remodeling for days.

A few years later another bunch found a way into the house from the west side. We had to call an exterminator.

I give bees a wide berth.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Used to remove bees from buildings. Wound up with 50 hives at one time. CHARGED to remove them. Did no repairs as I was too busy removing bees. Finally got novice beekeepers to go with me and take bees. The simplest way to get a swarm to stay in hive body is to add a frame of brood. The girls aren't going to leave babies alone. Best way to prevent swarms is have a young queen (less than 3 years old.) This means requeening every couple years.

[Allan Dozier]

Just helped my son check his new hives this weekend. The queens were all released and laying eggs like mad. They finished the last bit of Henbit and now are working over a bunch of holly trees we have.

[Jim Becker]

Not only that, but the workers "girls" toss out nearly all the drones (males) as soon as it gets cold in the fall.:eek:
Yea, well...the drones only have "one job" ;) and otherwise just hang around and get fed like princes. :D

[John K Jordan]

Yea, well...the drones only have "one job" ;) and otherwise just hang around and get fed like princes. :D

Yea sit on the couch, watch TV, drink beer, make a lot of obnoxious noise, never lift a finger, and get waited on hand and foot.

Until the day he chases and finally catches up with that exciting girlfriend. I read that during the very brief relationship she responds to his affections by ripping out the organ containing exactly what she needs to fertilize her eggs for the rest of her life. Oops.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

My tale of bees doesn't include harvesting honey.

We bought this hundred-year-old farmhouse 32 years ago. It was a wreck needing complete rebuilding. (I wonder why we did that?)

On the first floor north wall a friend and I probed the plaster wall. I had intended to keep it, but one spot seemed punky. So my friend tapped it, and found it was crumbled. We decided to tear it out, and out came angry bees. More bees than I ever saw in my life. The large window in that wall was open and they turned and headed outside through it as we headed toward the back door. It was early March and cold. They seemed to die almost immediately as they hit the outside air.

The end of the story was us having to removing from the spaces between a dozen studs, foundation to roofline, bees and honey. About a third of the hives were dead and stinking. Stinking, really.

It delayed our remodeling for days.

A few years later another bunch found a way into the house from the west side. We had to call an exterminator.

I give bees a wide berth.

Yikes! Were they honeybees or yellow jackets? I've seen yellow jackets do that, they'll come through the tiniest hole and make a huge colony in a wall. I think honey bees usually like a bigger opening. The yellow jacket comb I've seen was smaller and darker, not pure white cappings over honey. If you open a honeybee colony some will come out to protect but most will stay in the colony, in a big ball when it is cold. If you open a yellow jacket colony, they will all come out and try to kill you. If you found a bunch of honey comb inside that would prove it.

I eradicate any yellow jacket nest I find with poison. Yellow jackets, BTW, are a type of hornet.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Yea sit on the couch, watch TV, drink beer, make a lot of obnoxious noise, never lift a finger, and get waited on hand and foot.

Until the day he chases and finally catches up with that exciting girlfriend. I read that during the very brief relationship she responds to his affections by ripping out the organ containing exactly what she needs to fertilize her eggs for the rest of her life. Oops.

JKJ

Yes...it's one shot to fame for that drone! Of course, Queenie avails herself of several during that one time of mating bliss. "She's a killer...Queeeen..." da da da da da... :D Violent hussy!

[Gail Ludwig]

No swarms in mid-Missouri yet - but they are soon to arrive. I have four hives in my backyard and they all survived the winter. The early warm weather really ramped things up and my hives are rocking. I put up a few swarm traps about a week ago and am thinking that the first warm spell will probably cause them to swarm. I tried to manipulate the frames and boxes to reduce the chance of swarming --but decided it was folly. If they decide they are going to swarm, little I could do to stop it. So now I just put out a lot of traps and for the most part, am able to capture them and rehive.

[Tony Zona]

John, it was full of honey, and a lot of "rotten," foul-smelling honey in some parts of the wall. I cleaned honey for what seemed like a lifetime.

White-faced hornets put me in the emergency on another occasion, with maybe 150 stings.

I've had a time of it with stinging animals. I don't prefer to be around them.

[John K Jordan]

...I put up a few swarm traps about a week ago and am thinking that the first warm spell will probably cause them to swarm. I tried to manipulate the frames and boxes to reduce the chance of swarming --but decided it was folly. If they decide they are going to swarm, little I could do to stop it. So now I just put out a lot of traps and for the most part, am able to capture them and rehive.

Gail,

I've never tried using a swarm trap. Do you make or buy them?

I've always spotted the swarm then used a long pole to catch them. A handle of a paint roller is attached to a ring cut from the top of a 5-gallon bucket, then a white feed sack is fastened so I hangs inside. I bump the branch with the ring and give the pole a twist to fold the bag over to keep them inside. Usually it takes me a couple of tries to get most of them. A trap would be a lot easier!

I'd like to try making some. I found this:
http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/swarm-trap-free-plans.shtml

His article is interesting:
http://horizontalhive.com/honeybee-swarm-trap/bait-hive-how-to-catch.shtml

I'd be interested in what you found that works.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

John, this is the approach I'm taking for a swarm trap using an "old" (not really in our case) 10 frame deep...

http://letmbee.com/do-it-yourself/swarm-trap-plans/

[Tony Pisano]

It snowed here last week, so swarms are just a twinkle in our eyes right now. Crocuses did come up in our yard this week. 4 days of rain expected. I'm not sure if it's allowed here, but I have a book out called Build Your Own Beekeeping Equipment, published by Storey Publishing. You can find it at Tractor Supply, Amazon etc.

[John K Jordan]

John, this is the approach I'm taking for a swarm trap using an "old" (not really in our case) 10 frame deep...

http://letmbee.com/do-it-yourself/swarm-trap-plans/

I have some old deep boxes so that would be easy. I want to get something up in the next few days.

JKJ

[Jeff Ramsey]

I've only ever had one swarm, and that was in the summer during a dry spell when I was away. I came back and forgot to water them, and I looked out and a pile of bees was in front of the super ready to take flight. I quickly donned my suit, stoked up the smoker and went out to see if I could comb gently through the pile and find the restless (thirsty) queen. I did, and gently put her back and in went the rest. I was pretty good with splitting hives when they got too big. Unfortunately I lost my hives over the years due to disease and would like to see a natural swarm. Otherwise, I'll start anew at some point.

[Jim Becker]

I'm not sure if it's allowed here, but I have a book out called Build Your Own Beekeeping Equipment, published by Storey Publishing. You can find it at Tractor Supply, Amazon etc.

Congrats on that, Tony! Reviews seem to be pretty positive, too... :)

[John K Jordan]

Congrats on that, Tony! Reviews seem to be pretty positive, too... :)

Yes, thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered it for my growing library. I need to add a wing on my shop...

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

I got another hive yesterday. A friend called me and reported that bees had taken up residence in a irrigation box at the local middle school. So he and I went there and got them. They had just settled in - only had a small amount of comb and no eggs yet. Since there wasn't much comb, I had to vacuum them up (I made a bee vacuum (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/BeeVacuum.htm) a while back).

I gave them a frame of brood from my other hive and put them in a regular hive. Now, I just have to hope that i got the queen. It's possible that they could make a queen from the brood I gave them - if the queen is missing - but that's hit-or-miss and will set them back even if they do make a new queen. I'll go see if a queen is available from a queen supplier. I'd need to get it fairly quickly and right now they're backlogged.

Regarding making beekeeping equipment - it's very easy to make providing you buy your frames and only make the main part of the hive. You can find inside dimensions for 8 and 10 frame hives, and for smaller nucs, on the web. Given those dimensions, any of you can build a box, which is all a beehive is. I build them with dovetails just for the practice.

I even built a "top frame hive (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/TopFrameHive.htm)" and documented the build process if anyone wants to build one themselves.

Frames are cheap and they're process intensive if you make them yourself. Much easier to buy them.

Mike

[Mike Budzynski]

No swarms yet in the area - still a little cool here.

My one hive that swarms every year doesn't look like it this year - at least so far.

[Jim Becker]

We have a new NUC of local bees joining our family on Sunday...no swarming here yet...still a bit of wonky weather. 44º today. 82º next Tuesday. :)

[John K Jordan]

... a book out called Build Your Own Beekeeping Equipment...

Tony, I got my copy the other day from Amazon. Looking through it should be helpful. I like the handles fastened on the outsides of the boxes with screws. I've always routed handles when I made boxes; looks good but takes longer. (I make boxes from eastern red cedar.)

I admit I've never heard of a slatted rack to provide space under the brood chambers so I had to do some google hunting. I don't know any beekeepers around here that use them. In the hot summer sometimes a lot of bees hang outside from the porch. The winters here are relatively mild. (All beekeepers I know use screened bottom boards year-round.) I'll have to make one and try it. I did wonder about a couple of things. If the slots are aligned intentionally to let mites fall through, it seems like the flat board at the front would be a mite catcher. Perhaps something with sideways angled slats would deflect the winter wind and still let mites fall through.

I like the frame-building aid with the simple clamp - I'll make one of those. The jig to assemble frames looks good but I've never had a problem inserting the foundation wax. Perhaps that's because I use frames with two narrow slats with an open-bottomed slot between them. I insert one corner of the bottom of the wax first on one end, then ease the rest of the wax sheet into the slot while rotating it.

I like your very colorful hive bodies! Mine are all boring shades of white, grey, brown, green...

I enjoyed seeing the variety of swarm-catching things you show. I've used the bucket method before and I use a bag now. In fact, I use a combination of a part of a 5-gallon bucket and a bag. In case you or anyone is interested:

I cut a ring off the top of a 5-gal bucket and fasten a handle made from a paint roller handle, then hang a bag through the ring, holding it with some wire. The bag is what the local farmer's co-op uses when they bag bulk seed. Strong and very inexpensive.

I use this with an extension pole that will reach to about 24'. The ring/bag bumps the limb and the bees drop in as you mention, then I twist the handle to fold the bag over to keep them inside. This was important when getting the swarm high in the pine tree since there were so many limbs as obstacles it took me a while to get the bag down.

357950 357949

I experimented with a couple of versions of this. For the most strength, I bend the steel rod into a wide flat-bottomed "U" shape, drill a hole straight down in the rim against the side of the bucket and insert the short side of the "U" into the hole, then cut a slot for the long side of the "U". I used some soft wire to hold this on - extremely sturdy. (I've been using this for a number of years now.)

One thing I found important - if the handle is angled away to the left, the weight of the ring and bag will tend to keep the screw thread tight. If mounted in the other direction, the weight will tend to unscrew the handle from the extension pole.

357951 357952

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

John, we put in slatted racks this past year and hopefully the bees benefitted from them.

Interestingly, Facebook just reminded me that today (literally) is the one year anniversary of Professor Dr. SWMBO hiving the first colony.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/BeeKeeping/IMG_7461_zpsede7muz5.jpg

And at noon, we're picking up a local genetics NUC to add to the two colonies that successfully overwintered and are doing well. While we had three for most of the summer, a fall combine was necessary due to a queen gone bad. So we'll be back to three and plan on trying some splits once things get cooking here with coming warm weather.
---

On box handles, I have used applied handles on the 5-frame NUC boxes I built, but routed handles in the 10-frame boxes using a template I made that clamps to the box side. I build the boxes using the rabbit method as I don't have the easy ability to do box joints. Honestly, the cost of materials to build boxes versus taking advantage of a case of unassembled boxes on sale from Mann Lake is no contest. There's a case on the shelf ready to build when we need them. :) So I mostly build the other stuff from scraps.

[Jim Becker]

The new girls have arrived...local genetics, too...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/BeeKeeping/DSC_7545_zpsidjer1eg.jpg

[John K Jordan]

The new girls have arrived...local genetics, too...


Excellent! I love installing a new nuc. I see they are using the new corrugated nuc boxes too - our supplier started using those this year after years of using boxes made from 3/4" OSB.

Good luck with the nuc. It is amazing how fast they can build up. A few years ago I got one that exploded with activity and ended up producing a few supers of excess honey the first year. The second year it produced about 24 gallons of honey. That hive is already heavy with honey this year - I have three supers on it.

BTW, a few years ago my bee mentor talked me into going to two deep boxes for a brood chamber. I do that with all my hives now and rotate them to try to get them to store more honey there. In the strongest hive I also left a super full of honey over the winter so they are now using two deeps and one shallow box for the brood chamber. I don't know whether that's a good idea or not in the long run but for now it's one incredibly strong hive.

I'm headed out just now to top off the feeder in the new hive from the caught swarm a week ago. I'm slowly switching to frame feeders instead of top feeders - one feeder replaces one deep frame in the brood chamber. I get too many ants in the top feeders but the bees seem to keep them out of the brood chamber. I think the frame feeders disrupt the air circulation less but I can't prove that.

One question: when you inspect/work the hives do you use a table or temporary stand behind the hives to stage the boxes? I've always left enough room between the hives to put the top cover and boxes right next to the hive when taking it apart. If I put the hives closer together like yours I would have room for far more hives in my little apiary. (I use two 10' long steel channels on top of double concrete block to support the hives and have two of those stands in one spot.)

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

John, the corrugated NUC box is one of ours...we brought it with us. Barry (the source for today's bees) builds a bunch of quick and dirty OSB NUC boxes for his re-sale efforts because a lot of newbies don't have their own transport boxes. The OSB thingies he builds cost him less than buying the corrugated versions. His bees are great so we're happy to add another colony of them to our hopefully growing "bee city". :)

The singular thing with sourcing bees from him we don't prefer is that he provides the bees on deep frames. We prefer mediums, but have worked things out to use the few deeps we have as brood chambers on the bottom for "his" bees and mediums from there in the stack. Another local beek we've sourced bees from (the existing colony next to the new one) provides on mediums. That said, two deeps or three mediums is a typical brood setup, so it really doesn't matter as long as you provide the required space for a strong colony.

On your question, Professor Dr. SWMBO found a couple of cheap folding patio tables that she can easily carry to whatever hive(s) she's working on to set down certain items. She doesn't usually put boxes on the table, however, because that's an "accident waiting to happen". She'll stack the boxes on top of the telescoping cover in opposite order as she works down from the top so things stay steady.

We chose to go the solid block route for our hive stands as we don't have much of an ant issue (at least of the type that will go after things) and they are relatively inexpensive. I set them level and then paint them dark brown so they disappear into the landscaping. I'll soon be creating another platform for a couple more hives as we only have 'one spot' left right now which is sized for either a 10 frame stack or two NUC stacks.

I got our first swarm trap mostly build this afternoon...a little more work to do, but it's more or less patterned after the ones in that link I provided earlier.

[John K Jordan]

I wish I had my swarm traps made and up.

I was clearing today with the bobcat about 100' from the hives when I noticed a big swarm circling in the air overhead. I watched it swoop and swirl 20-40 ft in the air while drifting into the trees to the south west, in the general direction of my barn. I couldn't find it with a long walk.

I don't know if it had just exited a hive or if it had just left a a tree after hanging around 1/2 the day. This was about 1:30 and the last I checked the hives was 6am.

I hate to see 20000 of my bees disappear over the horizon. Oh well!

JKJ