Robust American Beauty - Movable Headstock, Turning Outboard?

[Steve Mathews]

While looking at a few videos demonstrating the Robust American Beauty it was mentioned that one of its advantages is being able to move the headstock along the lathe ways. It's obvious that this feature was made possible by making the motor integral with the headstock as opposed to it mounted to the base. A number of lathes are now made this way. Just thinking out loud on a weekend morning, I have a few questions about the design ....

Is the higher placed motor design less stable than one with the motor positioned lower?

I noticed in one of Ashley Harwood's videos where the headstock on her Robust is slid toward the opposite end to handle a 48" table base. That got me to thinking, isn't that the same thing as turning outboard on the back side of a fixed headstock? Also, does the motor placement on the Robust prevent turning on the backside? It would seem so because of their fixed indexing system and no means of attaching a chuck, faceplate, etc.

[Trevor Mills]

Oneway has no plans to design a lathe with a sliding headstock because they agree that your concerns are valid.

[Reed Gray]

With the motor placement a bit down and off to the side, you couldn't turn off the back/headstock end. The whole purpose with the sliding headstock is that you get both a spindle lathe, and a short bed bowl lathe combination. Slide the headstock down to the tailstock end and you can stand at the end to turn out a bowl, no leaning over, and no having to extend your arms out to turn a bowl, just stand up straight and keep your arms by your side. I think the PM 3520A was the first sliding headstock lathe, but not positive. Now there are a bunch of them. More throw above the lathe bed does not add to stability problems. Stability comes from a number of things, including weight, spindle shaft size and bearing set up, and footprint/how wide the feet are splayed. Weight comes in here as well. With the Oneway and their spindle set up, you can turn either inboard or outboard. Turning outboard also gives you a short bed lathe.

I don't think Ashley turns on a Robust. At least she didn't.

robo hippy

[Steve Mathews]

Reed - The stability that I was referring to and should've stated more clearly has to do with the top heaviness of the lathe. I would think that keeping as much of the mass of the lathe as close as possible to the ground is beneficial.

Here is a link to the video where Ashley Harwood is turning on a Robust.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3yMknTsfa0

[Bob Bergstrom]

With the motor placement a bit down and off to the side, you couldn't turn off the back/headstock end. The whole purpose with the sliding headstock is that you get both a spindle lathe, and a short bed bowl lathe combination. Slide the headstock down to the tailstock end and you can stand at the end to turn out a bowl, no leaning over, and no having to extend your arms out to turn a bowl, just stand up straight and keep your arms by your side. I think the PM 3520A was the first sliding headstock lathe, but not positive. Now there are a bunch of them. More throw above the lathe bed does not add to stability problems. Stability comes from a number of things, including weight, spindle shaft size and bearing set up, and footprint/how wide the feet are splayed. Weight comes in here as well. With the Oneway and their spindle set up, you can turn either inboard or outboard. Turning outboard also gives you a short bed lathe.

I don't think Ashley turns on a Robust. At least she didn't.

robo hippy
She doesn't appear real comfortable in parts of this video. I've never seen her using such a short handle bowl gouge. She has a Vicmarc and with everything Stuart Batty taught her I don't think she would buy a sliding headstock. She is using his scraper. Maybe she had a opportunity to try turning that big piece?

[John Keeton]

Life is full of trade offs and so is wood turning. I enjoy having a sliding headstock on my Laguna and for whatever negligible difference it may make in stability I think it is a valid design.

The most interesting part of Harwood's video was the omitted portion - prepping and roughing the blank to get where she was when the video starts! That is the part I want to see. 😊

[David Delo]

One thing that struck me as a little odd was the first NRS she used was just hand held. She does switch out to a different NRS with a handle but not sure I'd try without on a piece like that. Maybe that's why she gets the big bucks.

One of my turning highlights was winning a raffle for the piece she made at our club demo back in 2014. Once turned red oak bowl that sits in a prominent shop in my shop.
357464357465357466

[Reed Gray]

Stuart, and a few others claim that the 'vibration' issues on sliding headstock lathes comes from the headstock not being bolted down, and the clamping mechanisms are just not as strong/secure. There is a claim also that the steel bed lathes vibrate more than cast iron bed lathes. The only way for me to verify that one would be to turn on a Vicmark or a VB36 for a month or so I could compare them. I had never thought of a higher center of gravity issue. Hmm.... I think all of us who have bigger lathes do add ballast on the bottom. Biggest issue I can think of for vibration, would be how far off the headstock column the spindle mount spot is, because the more it sticks out, the longer that lever is, which could add vibration. I do know the Robust makes different noises than my old PM 3520A did. My Beauty does have a full length pressure plate on the bottom, not just a little disc. Never saw that clip of her before, but that is a Robust.

robo hippy

[Jeffrey J Smith]

That video would appear to disprove the claim that sliding headstock lathes are inherently less stable. Looks very stable to me. If she seems less than comfortable (I didn't notice it) it might be chocked up to turning a 48" piece. I don't think it would be a good thing to be too comfortable with that much mass spinning...
Also, no problem turning from either side of the piece.
I've never attempted a table top, but have turned a platter that was larger than the swing on mine - about 30" Dia. - and the lathe didn't have any problems. Had to jury rig the tool rest, though. I don't have the outboard rig.

[Steve Mathews]

That video would appear to disprove the claim that sliding headstock lathes are inherently less stable. Looks very stable to me. If she seems less than comfortable (I didn't notice it) it might be chocked up to turning a 48" piece. I don't think it would be a good thing to be too comfortable with that much mass spinning...
Also, no problem turning from either side of the piece.
I've never attempted a table top, but have turned a platter that was larger than the swing on mine - about 30" Dia. - and the lathe didn't have any problems. Had to jury rig the tool rest, though. I don't have the outboard rig.

A fully balanced piece even that large isn't that much of a test. The real challenge, as John Keeton mentioned earlier is "prepping and roughing the blank" to get it in that form". I would like to see that process too.

[John K Jordan]

One thing that struck me as a little odd was the first NRS she used was just hand held. She does switch out to a different NRS with a handle but not sure I'd try without on a piece like that. ...

I usually use negative rake scrapers without handles on bowls and platters, inside and out. This is more maneuverable and I think perfectly safe since unlike a standard scraper there is no force involved, regardless of the size.

I never put handles on these:
357516

JKJ

[Eugene Dixon]

Wouldn't be a good question to ask how is the lathe bolted down?

[David Delo]

I usually use negative rake scrapers without handles on bowls and platters, inside and out. This is more maneuverable and I think perfectly safe since unlike a standard scraper there is no force involved, regardless of the size.

I never put handles on these:
357516

JKJ

Learn something new every day. Thanks John. I use my d-way beaders unhandled but my NRS are all repurposed HSS scrapers that started out with handles on them. Makes sense what your saying.

[Reed Gray]

I would have a very beefy handle on if I was using a standard scraper, but with a NRS, I wouldn't worry about it. They are not for stock removal, just touching up, and they couldn't take a big bite if they had to, well maybe if you had a huge one and the nose profile exactly matched the curve of the bowl.. She is doing a little roughing near the end of the clip. I found it interesting that when she was sanding, she was going hand held and a high rpm....

The title says that the piece is a table base, so I would guess it gets a pedestal in that recess. Still a pretty big chunk to spin.

robo hippy

[Alan Trout]

I have turned on the Vicmarc VL300, The Powermatic 4224, On the Oneway 2436, and I own the Robust in a long bed version. I almost purchased a VL300 long bed which they no longer make but at the time the Australian dollar was so strong that it put the Robust within the price range of the VL300. Honestly the Robust for stability is probably the most stable lathe that I have ever turned on. The legs are splayed so far apart and the way the you "Settle" the bed makes for an incredibly easy lathe to setup and keep stable. A steel bed lathe will make more noise but I have never seen any difference in the finished product, so it was a non issue for me. Because the head, tailstock and banjo are cast that does act as a damper. There is quite a pucker factor spinning anything that big. Comfort and caution go hand in hand. I cannot ever imagine turning anything that large, but you never know.

[Jason Edwards]

I think having the motor by the spindle increases stability if you are turning out of balance parts. You have more mass by the thing that is out of balance providing some dampening instead of two or three feet away and attached by a long belt. I've turned quite a bit on a friend's AB (I have a Sweet 16) and found it to be very stable, so agree with Alan and Reed's comments above.

[Steve Mathews]

I have turned on the Vicmarc VL300, The Powermatic 4224, On the Oneway 2436, and I own the Robust in a long bed version. I almost purchased a VL300 long bed which they no longer make but at the time the Australian dollar was so strong that it put the Robust within the price range of the VL300. Honestly the Robust for stability is probably the most stable lathe that I have ever turned on. The legs are splayed so far apart and the way the you "Settle" the bed makes for an incredibly easy lathe to setup and keep stable. A steel bed lathe will make more noise but I have never seen any difference in the finished product, so it was a non issue for me. Because the head, tailstock and banjo are cast that does act as a damper. There is quite a pucker factor spinning anything that big. Comfort and caution go hand in hand. I cannot ever imagine turning anything that large, but you never know.

Regarding the VL300, that must have been 4 or 5 years ago. Take a look at the AUD today. Vicmarc products may be one of the best bargains out there now.

[Jason Edwards]

Regarding the VL300, that must have been 4 or 5 years ago. Take a look at the AUD today. Vicmarc products may be one of the best bargains out there now.

The exchange rate for the US dollar compared to the AU or CA dollar is great right now, but neither Vicmarc or Oneway has lowered their US Retail prices to reflect it. They are just making more money per US transaction. Nothing wrong with that, I'm a bit of a capitalist myself.

[David Delo]

The exchange rate for the US dollar compared to the AU or CA dollar is great right now, but neither Vicmarc or Oneway has lowered their US Retail prices to reflect it. They are just making more money per US transaction. Nothing wrong with that, I'm a bit of a capitalist myself.

Jason,

If the Aussies haven't raised their prices, they are making less money per transaction. In 2012 for example, they got $1.04 for every Aussie dollar. Now they only get $0.75 +/-. Good for us, not so good for them.

[Alan Trout]

Regarding the VL300, that must have been 4 or 5 years ago. Take a look at the AUD today. Vicmarc products may be one of the best bargains out there now.

Yes, I have had my Robust AB for about 4 or 5 years. I have never regretted my decision.

[Steve Mathews]

Yes, I have had my Robust AB for about 4 or 5 years. I have never regretted my decision.

I was not suggesting that you should be. The Robust AB is a fine machine by all accounts and so are the Vicmarcs. I just thought your comment was interesting and apropos to a conversation I had with Oneway this morning about some parts that I wanted to order. When given the price I asked if the quote was in CAD or USD. Their reply was " Where are you located?" After stating that I was in the US, she said the quote was in USD. <smiling to myself> I said, of course. I don't blame them for their position. Money is hard to make sometimes and even harder when circumstances work against you, as with the current exchange rates. Good for us in the US for the time being in purchasing power. Not so good if your selling against the grain. As a consumer I'll stretch my hard earned money any way I can legally. If I was in the market for new machinery I would definitely look to where my money would get the biggest bang for the buck. Fortunately we have choices.

[David Metzman]

How long are these NRS without handles and what brand? Thanks

[Reed Gray]

They are the Stuart Batty tools. I think they are V10 metal, like what Doug Thompson uses. I think they are made to only fit Stuart's taper lock handles.

robo hippy

[Frank Drew]

The whole purpose with the sliding headstock is that you get both a spindle lathe, and a short bed bowl lathe combination. Slide the headstock down to the tailstock end and you can stand at the end to turn out a bowl, no leaning over, and no having to extend your arms out to turn a bowl, just stand up straight and keep your arms by your side. I think the PM 3520A was the first sliding headstock lathe, but not positive. Now there are a bunch of them. More throw above the lathe bed does not add to stability problems. Stability comes from a number of things, including weight, spindle shaft size and bearing set up, and footprint/how wide the feet are splayed. Weight comes in here as well. With the Oneway and their spindle set up, you can turn either inboard or outboard. Turning outboard also gives you a short bed lathe.

Excellent summation, Reed. Turning faceplate work or bowls leaning over the bed is a total p.i.a., having done lots of it. I'd never buy a lathe again that didn't come set up for either left- or right-end "outboard" turning (or that didn't also have variable speed and reversing).