36" Northfield shingle-cutting jig

[Erik Loza]

The guys in the shop were making an order of shingles the other day and I thought I would share the setup. The Northfield is our "shingle machine" because it is the smaller (LOL) of our two bandsaws.

Erik

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[Will Boulware]

Impressive setup! Just curious, why the bowed plywood "spring" rather than a sled fixed between two solid boards?

And since you basically offered, you might as well show us the big saw too!

[Van Huskey]

Very cool Erik. That Shou Sugi Ban is just down right sexy and it had to be for me to even notice it in a bandsaw thread!

[Andrew Hughes]

Are the shingles decorative not for exposure to the sun? they look cool.

[Van Huskey]

Are the shingles decorative not for exposure to the sun? they look cool.

Some is for exterior and some interior, Shou Sugi Ban is amazing stuff. Check out the link where Erik works: http://deltamillworks.com/shou-sugi-ban

[Edwin Santos]

What is the process for charring it?

[Erik Loza]

Impressive setup! Just curious, why the bowed plywood "spring" rather than a sled fixed between two solid boards?

A sled would have been my thought as well but maybe the guys in the shop know something I don't? They seem to have shingle-making down to a science on the Northfield.


...And since you basically offered, you might as well show us the big saw too!

The McDonough... Only bandsaw I've ever been frightened of. If you got a shirt-tail or sleeve stuck in that thing, it would eat you alive.

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Very cool Erik. That Shou Sugi Ban is just down right sexy and it had to be for me to even notice it in a bandsaw thread!

Thanks! I should never have started working at Delta. My wife wants to re-do the interior and exterior of our house now.


Are the shingles decorative not for exposure to the sun? they look cool.

100% functional. That particular wood has a 50-year structural warranty, in fact. Some of the woods we use for exterior cladding will out-last most of the buildings they're attached to.


What is the process for charring it? We have an automated conveyor assembly and flame machine specifically for charring wood (our primary business channel). Imagine a giant flame broiler in a resturant, but about 100X the fire and wood boards instead of hamburgers.

Erik

[Van Huskey]

What is the process for charring it?

Here is a commercial shop (certainly not as good as Delta ;)) they also do a piece of wood with a torch so you can see it. Shou Sugi Ban is building momentum in the DIY community (as well as the "real" world) and there are lots of youtube videos if you are interested in trying it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPhyfP-qMM4

[Larry Edgerton]

Nice product Eric. The have one of those Mcdonough resaws at Johnson Lumber. I agree, terrifying. It resawed some 14" Makore for me in the blink of an eye.

There is a Russian kiln drying process that uses vacuum and extremely high heat that I was reading about a while ago that gives wood some of the same long lasting properties, stable and long life outside. Tried to find it on the net but could not, can't remember what it is called. It is commercially available here, Has a very dark and grainy look. Should have bookmarked it.

Sounds like things are going well for you, I am glad, but still miss your input around here.

Later buddy, Larry

[Steve Demuth]

The website says "The heavily-charred surface of the board makes the wood fire retardant as well as resistant to rot, insects and decay."

I get the insect resistance, and maybe the rot resistance. But fire retardant? The charred wood has to be mostly charcoal, and will still have a fairly highly percentage of tar products from lignin breakdown in it. Charcoal has a lower auto-ignition temperature by quite a bit than does solid wood.

[Adam Merritt]

Here is a commercial shop (certainly not as good as Delta ;)) they also do a piece of wood with a torch so you can see it. Shou Sugi Ban is building momentum in the DIY community (as well as the "real" world) and there are lots of youtube videos if you are interested in trying it.

Did I miss this as a joke? This video is of Delta...

[Van Huskey]

Did I miss this as a joke? This video is of Delta...


I'm laughing at myself because I had my bookmarks mislabeled and had that one listed under the builder instead of the siding manufacturer. So the joke as it were is on me, the manufacturer is indeed Delta, where Erik now works...

[Adam Merritt]

Phew. I am feeling extra tired this morning and read your comment several times trying to figure out if I'm just extra slow today.

[Van Huskey]

The website says "The heavily-charred surface of the board makes the wood fire retardant as well as resistant to rot, insects and decay."

I get the insect resistance, and maybe the rot resistance. But fire retardant? The charred wood has to be mostly charcoal, and will still have a fairly highly percentage of tar products from lignin breakdown in it. Charcoal has a lower auto-ignition temperature by quite a bit than does solid wood.

While I have never investigated the mechanism at work increased fires resistance is actually the raison d'etre for the process. The Japanese started doing it to prevent house fires and fires spreading from house to house several hundred years ago. I have played with this a little in a DIY fashion and can say it is much harder to start on fire than other boards of the same batch that have not been "fire treated".

[Erik Loza]

Did I miss this as a joke? This video is of Delta... Ha! that is indeed us. Matt Reisinger is a big hitter architect here in Texas in the "contemporary design" world. I had not see that video before. The other gentleman is Delta's owner, Robbie Davis. Robbie is basically the guy who devised shou-sugi-ban on a scale suitable for use on actual architectural projects (as opposed to DIY-level projects, which are much more common).


Nice product Eric. The have one of those Mcdonough resaws at Johnson Lumber. I agree, terrifying. It resawed some 14" Makore for me in the blink of an eye.

There is a Russian kiln drying process that uses vacuum and extremely high heat that I was reading about a while ago that gives wood some of the same long lasting properties, stable and long life outside. Tried to find it on the net but could not, can't remember what it is called. It is commercially available here, Has a very dark and grainy look. Should have bookmarked it.

Sounds like things are going well for you, I am glad, but still miss your input around here.

Later buddy, Larry

Thanks, Larry. I miss the machinery biz at times and it's always nice to come back here and visit:).

Regarding your Russian wood, if I were to guess, it is/was probably what is referred to as a "thermally modified" wood. There are number of those in the market here in the US. What they do is super-heat the wood in a kiln in the absence of O2. You need fuel, an ignition source, and oxygen to get fire. If you take away the O2, the wood won't combust, no matter how hot it gets. Anyhow, they superheat the wood to drive the moisture out and somehow temper it a bit. We've done some stuff with thermo-ash and thermo-poplar in the past but my understanding is that the thermo process really makes the wood brittle, so it has limited usefulness as exterior cladding (one of our primary business channels). The modified woods we use for most exterior products have been chemically modified rather than by heat, so there is none of that brittleness.


The website says "The heavily-charred surface of the board makes the wood fire retardant as well as resistant to rot, insects and decay." I get the insect resistance, and maybe the rot resistance. But fire retardant? The charred wood has to be mostly charcoal, and will still have a fairly highly percentage of tar products from lignin breakdown in it. Charcoal has a lower auto-ignition temperature by quite a bit than does solid wood.

I actually don't claim "fire resistance" as a benefit to our shou-sugi-ban, even though the traditional Japanese used it for that reason. With dwellings, it's almost always the airborne embers that land on your wood roof that start the fire rather than the structure actually getting engulfed in flames. That's why the Japanese did it. I don't have any true flame spread data for our charred products (we actually get asked this all the time by architects; it's virtually impossible to quantify) but can tell you that a piece of charred wood does not light up as readily as a piece of raw wood does. But again, I don't consider that a selling point. It's just a bit of historical trivia. Put enough heat to any piece of wood and it's going up.

Erik

[Cary Falk]

I thought I was going to see something like this. I can't find the Dirty Jobs episode. This on seems slightly tamer.:eek:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpd3ZOoI7kk

[Erik Loza]

Larry, I just took a pic of some thermo ash that was out in the shop. Notice the dark color. It's not stained. The heat treating does that.

Erik

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[Larry Edgerton]

Larry, I just took a pic of some thermo ash that was out in the shop. Notice the dark color. It's not stained. The heat treating does that.

Erik

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Yes, that is what I could not remember, thermally modified. It is my understanding that the color goes all the way through the wood

Is this true? I really like that color.

[Jeff Bartley]

Erik,
Thanks for sharing this! Both the jig and the shou sugi ban and the shingle jig. I'd be interested in learning more about what you guys produce, I'll PM ya.
Larry, look up 'torrified' wood. That's what they call it around here. I have a sample of some torrified poplar and can say it machines well. Never used it on a large scale project though.

[Erik Loza]

Yes, that is what I could not remember, thermally modified. It is my understanding that the color goes all the way through the wood. Is this true? I really like that color.

Yes, the thermal process changes the color of the wood itself.

Among others, we work with a modified wood out of Norway. It's actually SYP from the Southeastern US, sent over their for chemical modification, then comes back here (probably why it costs so much). Anyhow, the finished product looks and feel like Mohagany. You would never believe it's a pine product. Super-heavy and hard as a rock; you could probably drive nails with it. It's designed to be a direct competitor for tropical hardwoods like Ipe and Massaranduba in the decking/exterior cladding market.

I've been meaning to create a thread about some of the woods we work with. Like everyone here, I'm a wood nerd but honestly had no idea how much the Europeans are doing in terms of modifying woods for exterior use. I had no idea before I got into this sector of the industry.

Erik