lathe advice

[Brandon Speaks]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice, not on which lathe to purchase but more on type of lathe.

I have a small harbor freight 12x somthing 1/2 hp lathe that has been decent at turning muskie lures for along time, but I have recently started turning bowls. This machine has done great for smallish 5 inch bowls but recently I have been trying some 8-9 inch ones and am having problems both with vibration on blanks before I get them 100% true and HP (not getting catches but stalling the motor very easily with even moderately aggressive cuts).

I see three options

1. Get something like a Jet 1221 VS right now. This would not improve swing size but would make turning bowls up to 8-9 inches much easier due to doubling HP, adding weight and, and with VS controls. I would likely want to add a larger lathe eventually but could keep this one for smaller stuff.

2. Get a larger lathe without the EVS right now like the Nova. This would give me size and HP to last some time but not have EVS which I really really want.

3. Wait about a year, save up, and get a larger lathe with EVS, somthing like a Jet 1648, Nova DVR, or Laguna.

I suppose the 4th option is to keep watching craigs list, I have not seen anything in the last few months though that was not either junk, or barely below price of a new lathe.

What are your thoughts? Thank you for your help

[John Keeton]

Brandon, welcome to SMC! I started with the HF 34706 and followed your option 1 and bought a Delta midi. I then went to a Jet 1642-2, and then to the Laguna Revo 1836. I would not do that again. I would never recommend option 2 - there is no way I would give up EVS. So....from the voice of experience, save yourself some money overall and just wait until you can buy the lathe you really want.

[Roger Chandler]

Here is what I would do in your shoes.........and what I actually did. Consider this for $1625 + $159 shipping. The G0766 Grizzly lathe. Has all the features, and I can tell you from turning on numerous models, including a number of Powermatic 3520b's, a few Jet 1642 evs models, and midi models including the Jet 1221 VS. [I have its first cousin, the Delta 46-460 Vs] and even premium lathes like the Serious SL2542 and Robust American Beauty. [I reference the many lathes I have turned on to let you know of the breadth of experience I have on many models, so some legitimate perspective on this subject :)]

For the money spent, IMO, there is not a better value on the market for a full featured large lathe than the G0766. It has 3hp 3 phase motor, variable speed by electronic Delta M series inverter, and has power for coring, and any other thing you might want to do. It has reverse, 22" swing, and 42" between centers, and is 1-1/4 x 8 tpi spindle. It requires a 220v 15A circuit, and comes with a NEMA 6-15 plug.

http://cdn0.grizzly.com/pics/jpeg500/g/g0766-837b217fc589131eaaa6e320f9014b42.jpgI have used mine for nearly two years, and have not had one issue with it! It has been a joy to have in my shop, and I have turned bowls blanks that were heavy and almost maxed the thing out, and it handled them all like a champ!

I am not saying that the G0766 is in the same league with a Robust AB, or a Serious SL2542 that I have turned on, but it will go all day with any 3520b and I am a happy camper with my G0766. I almost purchased the 3520b when I upgraded from my former 18/47 G0698, but decided to go with the Grizzly G0766 instead. I knew fully what the 3520b is, as I had turned on 9 of them at that point and a couple of them several times, with demos and such. The G0766 has served me well, and has super smooth and powerful performance. I just finished a bowl today with it, and left the shop with another smile on my face! :D

If you go with the G0766, most owners do enlarge the banjo hole for the toolrest just a smidgen to 1" diameter to accept aftermarket rests. It comes with a 25mm hole and tool post from the factory, so it means enlarging by 1/64th of an inch to make a 1" hole.....piece of cake!

All being said, good luck with your choice, whatever you decide on!

[Carl Miller]

Wait and get what you want. EVS is the only way to go. You can become "lathe poor" by doing things in increments.

[David Sloan]

Brandon, I agree with everyone about EVS. While saving money for a $1500 to 2000 lathe, you might consider finding a Jet mini lathe on Craigslist. Having had both the Jet mini (the model with EVS) and the Harbor Freight, you will be much happier with the little Jet. You will be able to sell the Jet for what you paid for it when you upgrade. I have the JET 1642 which has been a great lathe but seeing what the Grizzly offers and also the Laguna in the same price range, I think those 2 lathes would be great choices. It's amazing how many really good lathes there are to choose from these days.

[Brandon Speaks]

Thank you every one. Roger, I agree the Grizz 766 is definitely on the list of lathes that I would look at when I have saved for a big lathe. Running 220 to my shop is another issue but the cost of that plus running 220 is less than some of the others so likely well worth it.

That being said it is still an option that is about a year out. I can swing about a grand in the near term but a $2000 purchase is not in the cards until next spring.

One question, I can likely swing $2,000 next spring regardless of if I spend the $1,000 now or not. For those of you with a big lathe how useful is it to still have a midi? I guess what I am asking is since a big lathe is in the cards for next year if I buy a better midi now would I still be likely to use it once I have the big one. If the answer is no I should definitely wait. If the answer is that yes you would still want one there would be a decent reason to get the 1221 to use until I get the bigger one.

[Roger Chandler]

Thank you every one. Roger, I agree the Grizz 766 is definitely on the list of lathes that I would look at when I have saved for a big lathe. Running 220 to my shop is another issue but the cost of that plus running 220 is less than some of the others so likely well worth it.

That being said it is still an option that is about a year out. I can swing about a grand in the near term but a $2000 purchase is not in the cards until next spring.

One question, I can likely swing $2,000 next spring regardless of if I spend the $1,000 now or not. For those of you with a big lathe how useful is it to still have a midi? I guess what I am asking is since a big lathe is in the cards for next year if I buy a better midi now would I still be likely to use it once I have the big one. If the answer is no I should definitely wait. If the answer is that yes you would still want one there would be a decent reason to get the 1221 to use until I get the bigger one.I have both a large and midi, as you read above. The second lathe allows one to make a second part, such as a lid or finial without having to move the main part, and thereby induce wobble into the form. Always good to have a second lathe if you are serious about turning, and have the room.

[Prashun Patel]

I own a Delta 46-450 which operates on 110V and has capacity to turn up to 12" bowls. On green wood, a 30-40lb blank can tax this machine. But I have used it for 8 years with relative satisfaction.

I find the swing capacity of larger lathes to be overrated (FOR ME) because finding large wood is difficult, and it can be heavy and unwieldy to process (I hurt my back harvesting logs). I'm just saying beware of what you think you really want. 12" bowls are plenty large enough for anything I've used them for.

Vibration is more a function of the balance of your blank, the mass of your stand, and the quality of your mount.

Also beware that the cheapest part of the craft is your lathe. Tools, chucks, accessories, and a good sharpening set up are key (and look seriously at CBN wheels). Factor these items into your budget.

That being said, I too lust for a larger lathe. But more because I want slower speeds for sanding.

Personally, I don't think I'd want to own two lathes; midi's and the larger lathes will likely have different post and spindle sizes, so you'd have to double up on many accessories like chucks.

Last, I will say that turning is a highly personal thing. I find that people tend to specialize. Some like hollow forms, some pens, some bowls. I'm a bowl person, so I make very few finials and don't need a hollowing rig, so my set up is pretty straight forward. So, a guy like me doesn't need two lathes. For me, the space and $$ would be much better allocated to a dedicated bandsaw to help process my blanks.

Because of the accessory size diff between the midi's and the larger lathes, if you have determined you definitely want a large lathe, I would jump straight into that.

[Brandon Speaks]

I own a Delta 46-450 which operates on 110V and has capacity to turn up to 12" bowls. On green wood, a 30-40lb blank can tax this machine. But I have used it for 8 years with relative satisfaction.

I find the swing capacity of larger lathes to be overrated (FOR ME) because finding large wood is difficult, and it can be heavy and unwieldy to process (I hurt my back harvesting logs). I'm just saying beware of what you think you really want. 12" bowls are plenty large enough for anything I've used them for.

Vibration is more a function of the balance of your blank, the mass of your stand, and the quality of your mount.

Also beware that the cheapest part of the craft is your lathe. Tools, chucks, accessories, and a good sharpening set up are key (and look seriously at CBN wheels). Factor these items into your budget.

That being said, I too lust for a larger lathe. But more because I want slower speeds for sanding.

Personally, I don't think I'd want to own two lathes; midi's and the larger lathes will likely have different post and spindle sizes, so you'd have to double up on many accessories like chucks.

Last, I will say that turning is a highly personal thing. I find that people tend to specialize. Some like hollow forms, some pens, some bowls. I'm a bowl person, so I make very few finials and don't need a hollowing rig, so my set up is pretty straight forward. So, a guy like me doesn't need two lathes. For me, the space and $$ would be much better allocated to a dedicated bandsaw to help process my blanks.

Because of the accessory size diff between the midi's and the larger lathes, if you have determined you definitely want a large lathe, I would jump straight into that.

I doubt that I would have a lot of opportunity to turn bowls over 12 inch. I have a good source of maple logs right now but they are mostly only big enough to get a 10 inch bowl at the moment. I dont see a strong need for a swing over 14-16 inches in the near future, I am more interested in the extra HP and other features of the big ones. On the other hand the 12 inch swing of the 1221 seems like it might be just small enough to be a limiting factor.

[Brandon Speaks]

As for budget for other tools I do have the basics covered. I have a cheaper set of HSS tools plus a few nicer bowl gouges along with a hunter carbide. My sharpening set up is not perfect, I am using a belt sander with a home made jig functioning kind of like a wolverine that seems to work well enough. I also do have a 14 inch grizzly bandsaw.

If I dont invest in a lathe this year I was also looking at getting a grinder with cbn wheels from wood turners wonders and a better jig. Right now the lathe seems like a more limiting factor than the sharpener though. Maybe if the CBN could get my tools that much sharper it would offset the power problem I am having with the lathe.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Brandon, remember that you can turn small things on a big lathe, but you can't turn big things on a small lathe. I have a shop at my girlfriends house. I have a Oneway 1224 and a Jet 1221 in it. Sometimes, we are both turning on them, altho, she does have her shop. In my shop, I have four lathes(Oneway 2436, Oneway 1224, Robust Liberty and a Jet 1220). My favorite is the 1224. My big lathes are mostly used for platters. I save the Jet for buffing. At times I have had turners using all four lathes. I guess that this is my long winded way of saying to go for the bigger lathe.
Joe

[Roger Chandler]

[QUOTE=Brandon SPEAKS;2675183 Maybe if the CBN could get my tools that much sharper it would offset the power problem I am having with the lathe.[/QUOTE]

Not really......sharp is important, but a wimpy motor will always cause problems with stalling, and likely the HF Chinese motor will not have the torque that a USA made 1/2 hp Baldor or Leeson will have. CBN is great........I have two of them on my grinder, but you will not get enough sharp from them or stropping every gouge and skew to make up for the "wimpiness" of a seriously underpowered lathe. Your HF lathe is made for spindle work, and the low rpm is pretty much too high for an unbalanced blank........you need something that will handle the power needs......of the midi's the Jet 1221 Vs is the class of the field. That little 1 hp motor is pretty stout.

[Michael Mills]

Only a possibility but Woodcraft has the Nova 1624II on sale for $850.
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/nova-1624-ii-lathe?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BADL%5D%20%5BNon-Brand%5D%20Manufacturer%20-%20Nova%20%5BEC%5D%20(Broad)&utm_term=%2Bnova%20%2B1624&utm_content=Nova%20-%201624

I've had mine for about 7 years. If you do really want electronic speed you can upgrade it later for about $600.

[John K Jordan]

For those of you with a big lathe how useful is it to still have a midi? I guess what I am asking is since a big lathe is in the cards for next year if I buy a better midi now would I still be likely to use it once I have the big one. If the answer is no I should definitely wait. If the answer is that yes you would still want one there would be a decent reason to get the 1221 to use until I get the bigger one.

Brandon, I'm almost embarrassed to say I have five wood lathes - two Jet Minis, two Jet 1642s, and one Powermatic 3520b. (I didn't acquire all these the same day!)

I started with a cheap worthless lathe (dumb move) and like everyone else quickly realized I wanted a heavier-duty electronic variable-speed lathe. I bought the first 1642 new (the smartest thing I ever did.) Later, to turn magic wands at the bookstore for the Harry Potter book releases I got a Jet Mini then later a second one used for almost nothing. Then a second used 1642 for a good price. The PM (also bought used) is now my primary lathe. I keep one of the 1642s in the same area.

This is a recent picture of the turning alcove in my shop with two boys learning the joy of the skew for the first time:

357157

Some of my experience:


Value of small: The minis are perfect for taking places and to carry into the shop when I have a small class. I'm attending a Mark St Leger event in April and guess what, there are not enough lathes to go around so I can easily bring one or two. Having two makes it easy to be generous and loan one out. If someone breaks it I'm not out all that much.


Two vs one: I find having a second lathe of any kind in the shop extremely useful. (IF you have the space!) I can quickly test or turn something on the second lathe without having to remove the chuck, change rests, live centers, and things. For example, preparing for a demo for this week I had a turning set up in a chuck on the PM and needed to turn a small support plug for a long spindle with a hole drilled in the end - perfect application for the second lathe. When turning short morse tapers on the end of spindles for support I don't even have to knock out the drive center on the lathe to test the fit - I just step over to the other lathe. When I have a friend come to play or one or two people for some instruction the second lathe is perfect.


Second lathe, larger vs smaller: I think any lathe will be useful as the second but there are advantages if both have the same spindle thread and morse tapers (and perhaps tool rest post size.) My 1642s and 3520b both use 1.25x8tpi spindles so I can share chucks, faceplates, and shop-made accessories.

Another huge advantage to two lathes is if the primary lathe quits working. Before I got the PM the VFD on my primary Jet 1642 quit. Rather than fall into immediate panic, withdrawal, and depression I could take my time finding and programming a replacement VFD.

BTW, I do currently have the second 1642 in the shop, left over from a small class, but it is just in the way and waiting for me to move it to storage. Two lathes is perfect for me - more than two at once is excessive!

JKJ

[William C Rogers]

Brandon, I started out with a Delta 10" swing belt change lathe. I was just turning pens and small items. I then bought a Jet 10" swing variable speed. Do not give up the variable speed. Finally I bought a 12" swing Powermatic 90. 12" swing wasn't much of an improvement, but it is a rock solid for that size lathe. I looked at newer lathes, but my decision was to raise the swing to 18". An 18" swing is ideal for me. I don't think I would be happy with any thing less or really want anything bigger. I still have all three lathes and use them all. I do have a workshop big enough to support this. Usually for small items I use the Delta for between centers, the Jet for finials, and the PM 90 for most turnings. The PM 90 is not for everyone. I gave up speed range and reverse turning as I have a 1hp single phase motor. Yes I can bog it down with real heavy cuts and I need to round up my blanks better as my low speed is 350rpm. However I can make this work for me, but I still dream about a Robust and some others. The one thing I had for the PM 90 was an offset banjo attachment for the PM 90. If I didn't have this the biggest I could turn was about 15" regardless how much I raised the swing. I could upgrade to a VFD and gain some of that back, but haven't found it necessary although would be nice. However vs new I was able to buy some nice upgraded tools. So my advice is to get an minimum 18" swing lathe, variable speed, and it is a personal choice/space on keeping the midi. I won't sell any of my lathes, as they are not worth that much verses being able to use them.

[Reed Gray]

When I bought my first lathe, a 12 by 36 four speed Atlas, I was already doing the local Saturday market. That started me on bowls. People kept asking for larger bowls. I bit the bullet, and bought a PM 3520A. It paid for itself at least 3 times that year, which meant that it covered all the accessories.... If you are selling, taking the big step would be worth it in most cases. there are a lot of lathes in the 16 to 18 inch throw range now. If you do go to variable speed, you will never go back. If you turn just for fun, then taking smaller steps is the most likely way to go.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

...I was also looking at getting a grinder with cbn wheels from wood turners wonders and a better jig. Right now the lathe seems like a more limiting factor than the sharpener though. Maybe if the CBN could get my tools that much sharper it would offset the power problem I am having with the lathe.

What exactly is the power problem you are having? Are you trying to turn the maximum sized chunks on the small lathe? I have found that a 1/2hp Jet mini will handle the biggest thing I put on it.

Two things are needed for this: The first is sharp, sharp, sharp - you are sunk without it. Second and just as important is good tool control. A good sharpening station will help with the sharp. With good tool control you can turn almost anything - finesse will trump force. The tool control will come with practice, if you practice wisely.

I encourage you to develop your skills on spindle turning before you tackle large bowls. As I've written often, expert turners say spindle turning will teach you the fine tool control that will let you turn anything. (Very few people seem to care, though - the ease of turning big green wood is a strong draw.)

JKJ

[Gary Baler]

I am the proud owner of a new to me, but used Powermatic 3520b. However, I turned 2 or 3,000 bowls on a 1624 nova ... which I still use. Frankly, I never had a problem changing belts on the Nova. After a while it takes about 15 seconds. For $850 it is hard to beat. It will probably be worth close to that if you get ready to sell it.

[Jimmy Edwards]

Brandon anytime money enters into the criterion, we say here in the oilpatch "they don't put saddlebags on coffins". Don't wait, call your banker.

[David M Peters]

Lots of good input on this thread! My first lathe was a Jet 1221VS and was a good enough lathe to start with. But as my skills progressed I got tired of being limited on power and capacity. It was still fairly easy to stall the 1HP motor (in low gear) with a heavy cut.