Help Me With Snipe

[Joe Wood]

I've always struggled with this end snipe, and I can't really figure it out. I have a new 15" Grizzly planer, just tuned it up, outfeed, infeed and chip breaker heights and I'm still getting it pretty bad.

these are 20' timbers, and we're keeping them pretty level especially as it's about to exit, but I'm getting these bad snipes 3" from end of board and a light stink deep! It's right as it exits the infeed roller, seems to pause, then get picked up by the outfeed. Might be getting slightly hung up under the chip breaker. I have the bed rollers almost flush with the table. These snipes are the same ~1/16 depth all across the 3" part.

lot's of work planing these timbers, I want to do a nice job! What could I re adjust tomorrow? I'm thinking the outfeed could come down a bit, or the infeed, up?

[Mel Fulks]

In this case I think it's just coming from failure to hold the material up in its path. Sometimes it's difficult to keep that feel with long heavy stuff.

[lowell holmes]

Joe,
Try lifting up on the front end of the board as the back end is leaving the rollers. The snipe you are describing is not rare. Planing 20 foot long timbers is uncommon on a lunch box planer. How do you keep the planer stable when the timber is past half way?

[Joe Wood]

No, it's right as it leaves the infeed, it pauses and we have to pull and tug a bit. We are holding it up as it exits, matter of fact I have a roller stand set up to keep it level, so I don't have to be holding it up!

I have shims under the back end of the planer to stabilize it a little anyway, but yes, it's not 100% stable with that timber.

I have this same problem with 2x8 x 10', so why doesn't the outfeed pick it up and keep putting it thru?

[Chris Schoenthal]

Joe, I'm assuming that you are going to trim the timbers some to final length.
Most will buy a little longer board to be able to cut off the snipe.
If that's not possible, or you are pretty close on the length, try gluing a 3-4" piece at the end of the board that will take the snipe.
Then you can cut it off at the glue line when you are finished planing.

[Matt Day]

Sounds like the outfeed roller pressure isn't high enough. Tighten down the hex head set screws (or whatever they're called) on top on the outfeed side.

[Joe Wood]

Nope, I need two 10's out of each timber,

Hhmmm, glue on a 4" piece, and increase outfeed pressure, two great suggestions!

[Steve Jenkins]

Sounds like your Roller stand isn't high enough. I hold up the In feed end with some amount of pressure unti it's about halfway through then go to the outfeed end and hold it up. You should be able to hold a fair amount of upward pressure without adversely affecting the cut. Also give the table a good waxing if it's stalling.

[Andrew Hughes]

I think you can get some of the snipe out if you spend some time adjusting the outfeed roller.I have a Pm that still snipes a little after some adjustments but There is a lot of flexing in the columns so I know it's never going to be perfect.
If your not facing your beams flat for your first pass that's going to be hard to workout.

[Matt Day]

Try this:
First, just use shorts, like 2' 4/4 material that you may have laying around. Get the snipe out by adjusting the outfeed roller. Also, lower the bed rollers below the table and line the bed up real good with wax or slip it or whatever you use.

I have a 4 poster 15" and have zero snipe.

Then use longer material and make sure it's properly supported.

[glenn bradley]

Knowing how snipe occurs:

357049

It is a feed path problem. There is a fix for planing short stock by affixing longer rails to the material and cutting them off when you are done:

357050
Maybe you could do something similar but, opposite:

357051

[Joe Wood]

Oh some great thoughts fellas :-)

[Justin Ludwig]

I angle my outfeed table. On a 20' timber I'd have the far end at least an 1" higher than the outfeed of the planer. Good luck!

Glenn's ideas look good too - depends on how you value your time.

[Larry Frank]

My favorite is to run a short scrap piece through in front and in back. It seems to eliminate the problem for me.

I went thru trials on my DeWalt 735 and 15" Planer to try to eliminate snipe. I found that I could greatly reduce it but never completely eliminate it. While I could not see it at times, I could measure it with a digital caliper. The best I could get is a few thousandths of an inch.

[Jim Finn]

Sounds like your Roller stand isn't high enough. I hold up the In feed end with some amount of pressure unti it's about halfway through then go to the outfeed end and hold it up. You should be able to hold a fair amount of upward pressure without adversely affecting the cut. Also give the table a good waxing if it's stalling.
I agree with Steve. That is how I do it.

[Joe Wood]

Say Larry, can you explain this a little more?
'My favorite is to run a short scrap piece through in front and in back'

[Cary Falk]

Take the bed rollers below the bed. You don't need them if you keep the tables waxed. I know some people like to keep them a few thousands above the bed but the caused me nothing but trouble. I have no snipe on my G0453 with the infeed and outfeed tables dead flat.

[Matt Day]

I think Larry means to follow the main board immediately with a short sacrificial board. That sacrificial board should then receive the snipe instead of the main board.

But before you do these tricks, why don't you make sure the machine is properly adjusted as we suggest? Lower the bed rollers, adjust the outfeed roller pressure, wax the bed.

[Joe Wood]

Oh that's another good idea,

heading out to the shop now!

[Mike Chalmers]

Take the bed rollers below the bed. You don't need them if you keep the tables waxed. I have the Busy Bee version of the standard 20" planer, the CX 20. I installed a spiral cutter head. l lowered the rollers but had an issue where the piece would nose dive into the gap and get hung up on the edge of the infeed roller gap.

[Joe Wood]

well we waxed the table, adjusted the outfeed pressure 2 turns or so, lowered the rollers, but what helped the most was holding the end of the timber up a little higher then level as it exited,

much less snipe now :-) but still getting it, right when the rear end of the piece leaves the infeed roller at the 3" mark, can't figure that out.

but it's much nicer planing job so thanks to all of you!

[Dave Zellers]

Can I ask what those timbers are? Old growth fir? They are pretty gorgeous.

[Joe Wood]

Oh yeah pretty nice sticks! they're STK wr cedar, also called #2 Bttr appearance grade, still kinda wet so we're been letting them air dry, under a fan.

I think a good part of my problem was,

that they're heavy 20' long semi green timbers!

[Bill McNiel]

[QUOTE=glenn bradley;2674727]Knowing how snipe occurs:

357049

It is a feed path problem. There is a fix for planing short stock by affixing longer rails to the material and cutting them off when you are done:

357050
Maybe you could do something similar but, opposite:

357051[/Q UOTE]

Plus 1 on Glen's solution. Simple, easy and effective.

[Jim Dwight]

I agree with Justin. You need the timber angled a bit down at the start and the end. The weight of the timber wants to leverage it up into the cutter both as it starts through the planner and as it exits. Pushing it up a bit prevents it from tilting up.

[Andrew Hughes]

Maybe the ends are not flat the infeed roller pushes it down flat then after a it's past it rises up into the cut and snipe is installed.The outfeed roller pushes it back down.Thats my guess from a thousand miles away.

[Floyd Mah]

Here's a suggestion for visualizing the cause of snipe.
Imagine that the planer is like one of those monster trucks (I can only imagine, since I've never seen one). As the front roller/wheel climbs over the leading edge of the board, the body of the truck tilts upwards. Unless the planer's supports are very rigid, there is always a tilt. When the leading edge of the board meets the cutter, the distal roller is lower than the front roller and the cutter height is midway between the two rollers. As the board hits the distal roller and goes under it, the roller carriage rises at the distal end also, lifting the cutter blades. The result is that the leading 3", representing the distance from the middle of the carriage to the rear roller, is cut deeper than the following longer part of the board. As the trailing edge of the board exits, the opposite sequence of events occur and the front roller falls below the distal roller's position, causing a deeper cut of the board, again about 3" from the end. Failure to keep down side of the board tightly against the bed of the planer helps exaggerate the snipe, both on entry and exit. While everyone recommends lifting the board end that is not under the planer, on entry and exit, this only is part of the solution. The rigidity of the carriage in resisting the tilt when only one roller is on the board (as on entry and exit) contributes to the snipe. This can't be fixed by any adjustment of the usual planer. Unless your planer locks the height of the front and distal roller, snipe is inevitable.

As described above by others, the only solution that fixes the problem is to extend the apparent length of the board by either tacking boards to the sides or planning on wasting 3" on either end. I've also tried pushing my many pieces of stock through as rapidly as possible, or staggering the entry of narrow pieces so that the carriage never drops off the boards. This is like Lucille Ball and Viv at the chocolates factory: the conveyor always seems to overtake your efforts. I've also tried wedging the carriage in an effort to stiffen the movement of the carriage. It was a lot of work and I never could say that I had a solution.

[Marty Schlosser]

I agree with the approach Larry's suggesting here.


My favorite is to run a short scrap piece through in front and in back. It seems to eliminate the problem for me.

I went thru trials on my DeWalt 735 and 15" Planer to try to eliminate snipe. I found that I could greatly reduce it but never completely eliminate it. While I could not see it at times, I could measure it with a digital caliper. The best I could get is a few thousandths of an inch.

[Wes Ramsey]

I've got the same planer and same snipe issues. When I run a batch of several shorter boards I try to keep wood constantly under the rollers - as the end of one enters the planer I feed in another one beside it. When the last board goes in I feed a sacrificial board in next to it and the snipe is almost, if not completely, gone. I also sometimes will do a light final pass with the bed adjusted up maybe 1/4 turn - just enough to plane off the infeed roller prints. Usually this gets rid of the snipe when I'm doing just a board or two, but not always.

I tried setting the feed rollers below flush, but board ends would tend to hang up in the gap. Right now I have them set flush or maybe proud .001" or so. Enough to keep wood moving anyway. I also have the pressure backed way off, but when running rough sawn lumber I crank them down more so it feeds better. I've monkeyed with it enough to know that I'm just chasing my tail and won't ever tune away the snipe. Sacrificial boards seem to be my best option for reduced or eliminated snipe.

[Joe Wood]

Damn, now we're getting hangup, the piece jams right when the board hits the rear edge of that slot in the table that the front bed roller sits in .. and the infeed roller digs a divet into the top edge .. I filed that sharp edge a little. The bed rollers are below, what's causing it to jam up right there, too much or too little infeed roller tension?

when you're screwing the roller tension hex nut down, is that increasing the tension on the spring? I tried increasing the tension, taking a full turn and a half down, putting them just below the surface, can't tell if that helped. If we feed it in by jamming the piece in, it seems to not get hung up right there.

[Mike Kees]

Joe a friend of mine came up with a great way to do what you are trying to accomplish.He used a portable planer. Put the timbers on two sawhorses with about five feet hanging over one end. You need a buddy to accomplish the next step.Then set planer depth ,start it up and lift it to the material . Carefully start the planer on the piece. The drive rollers will "drive " it down the length of your timber ,you simply lift and move sawhorses,then catch the planer at the end. It worked way easier than it sounds.. Good luck,Mike.

[Joe Wood]

Oh that sounds like great fun Mike! Sort of like those belt sander races we used to have only we could use planers! :-)

[Matt Day]

Sounds like maybe you increased the roller pressure to the point where the board cannot fit between the roller and the bed. Back it off and see what happens.

I think this whole thread is ahead of itself. The first thing that should be done with any new machine is dial it it. Make sure the blades are aligned and parallel to each other and the bed. Test the machine with small boards first and see what you get, adjust as necessary.

Sending 20' boards through as the test makes everything more complicated.

After you get the snipe eliminated with smaller boards, then try larger boards.

One thing to try with the larger boards would be to remove the outfeed extension wing and make a long flat table so the boards are fully supported the whole way.

[Joe Wood]

We tuned everything up, then started running the timbers. I'm try releasing some tension tomorrow and see what happens.