Lie Nielsen Blades Not Staying Sharp

[Adam Chevalier]

Hi all,

I've been lurking for awhile but haven't got around to posting too much. I recently took the plunge and bought a few Lie Nielsen bench planes but am running into trouble with all three. I have zero difficulty getting them sharp and passing every test of sharpness I've came across (cutting arm hair, slicing paper, paring end grain, etc). Trouble is they are dull after very little use. I'll sharpen the blade, and get very fine shavings for several passes, and then the shavings stop. When I take apart the plane to inspect the blade, the edge is already rolled over. When i run my finger across the blade it feels very much so like a burr you'd feel when sharpening.

My sharpening routine is as follows:
-jig set the blade at 35 degrees
-800 grit, 1200 grit, 8000 grit with DMT diamond stones and remove burr on 8000 grit
-strop and remove burr again on the strop

I have already tried grinding back far enough to remove my micro bevel and then rehoning hoping to get to better steel with no luck.

Immediately following this, the blade makes hair fall off my arm with no effort and slicing paper like it wasn't there. At this point I'm beyond frustrated and believe since its multiple blades I'm experienceing this with its something I am doing. My old stanley's didn't have this problem, should I be doing something different with A2? My old jack plane hasn't been sharpen nearly as often as it should but doesn't have a rolled over edge like my Lie Nielsen's after a minutes worth of use. I plan on calling Monday to see what they think, but am trying to find the answer in the mean time. Any help would be appreciated

[Mike Henderson]

Contact Lie Nielsen. That's not normal. Sounds almost like the irons were not heat treated.

Mike

[Brian Holcombe]

Post a picture of the dulled blade.

[Adam Chevalier]

356889
Here's one

[Adam Chevalier]

356890Here's the other side

[Adam Chevalier]

I have a hard time believing three blades would have the same problem that wasn't user oriented as high on quality as LN is. I'm just out of ideas.

[Brian Holcombe]

Did they get hot when you were grinding them?

If they did, they will chip badly for a sharpening or two. If you grind, don't grind all the way to the edge, keep it back a little then get the edge with your stones.

I know this because I got a corner hot before and it behaved similarly.

Finally if you are planing material that has been roughly sanded, the blades will look like that very quickly.

[Adam Chevalier]

When I say grinded back, I should have stated I sat there for 20 minutes with my 200 grit diamond stone with my jig set for a lower angle (30 deg). They didn't get hot.

[Brian Holcombe]

What are you planing?

[Adam Chevalier]

What are you planing?
Black walnut

[Brian Holcombe]

Rehone a few more times and see if doesn't clear up. Don't go to 200 grit, start at 1000~ and work up to a finish. Alternatively you can grind at 30 degrees and hone at 35 using just your finish stone.

Are there any lines showing on the back from the rough stones? If there are any the blade with chip at those spots. Usually the back will need to be finely polished for me to get an edge that I like and one which is very durable.

Finally grind back until all of the wear is totally gone each time this happens. The burr that forms upon grinding a clear edge will be unbroken along the length of the edge. Don't tear off the burr, hone it off using the stones and be certain it is fully removed by looking at the edge in the light until it is clearly gone and cannot be felt.

If all of these are done and the edge still misbehaves I would contact LN

[Ray Bohn]

...Are there any lines showing on the back from the rough stones? If there are any the blade with chip at those spots. Usually the back will need to be finely polished for me to get an edge that I like and one which is very durable...

Very good point. I have seen this happen when someone is happy with getting the back flat and does not continue to match the polish that is on the bevel cutting edge. The scratches from the coarser stone will weaken the edge by creating a thinner area right at the (already) thin cutting edge.

[Adam Chevalier]

Ive honed it a few times at 35 degrees since grinding back at 30 degrees. After not much use (less than a minute or two) I still have a folded back cutting edge. I can try again though. I plan on calling Lie Nielsen regardless Monday, if my work schedule allows it.

The back only has scratches from the 8000 grit dmt. Its not quite a perfect mirror polish, as I believe the 8000 is only 3 micron, but I can certainly see solid reflections in the back.

At this point I'm researching after market irons (hock o1, veritas pmv11) to see what would fit. Even my block plane is showing a weak edge. I took apart my jack plane that I can't remember the last time I sharpened and as a blind test my fiancé felt more of a burr on the lie Nielsen after a handful of passes than the jack that probably has a couple hours of use.

[Jim Koepke]

This is what caught my eye:


-800 grit, 1200 grit, 8000 grit with DMT diamond stones and remove burr on 8000 grit

Leaving the burr on through all the grits has caused problems for me.

The only other time I have seen something like this is if the blade was installed bevel up in error.

jtk

[Adam Chevalier]

This is what caught my eye:



Leaving the burr on through all the grits has caused problems for me.

The only other time I have seen something like this is if the blade was installed bevel up in error.

jtk

Is it standard practice to remove the bur on each grit? That seems like that could be.very inneffecient removing the blade from the guide between grits.

[Stewie Simpson]

Is it standard practice to remove the bur on each grit?

No its not. The burr (wire edge) should separate of its own accord, as you work your way through your finer grit stones. This denotes to 01 steel. The burred edge on A2 steel will likely react differently. The idea of switching to 01 or PM makes perfect sense.

[David farmer]

Just a long shot, but I would double check your other blades on the same wood. Or the LN blades on something else.
Once I had a random batch of regular Red Oak that was some how loaded with a blade destroying mineral (Silica?). As in one pass and the blade was toast. I had to burn the stuff.

[Brian Holcombe]

Just a long shot, but I would double check your other blades on the same wood. Or the LN blades on something else.
Once I had a random batch of regular Red Oak that was some how loaded with a blade destroying mineral (Silica?). As in one pass and the blade was toast. I had to burn the stuff.

This is what I was driving at earlier as well, I recently planed a slab that had been sanded, likely by some sort of industrial belt and it was hell on my blades. Once the top layer was off then it planed normally.

[Mike Brady]

DMT doesn't make a diamond stone anywhere near 8000 grit. You need to have someone who is experienced at sharpening evaluate your technique. It's also impossible for blades from three different planes to be faulty. I hate to be harsh about this, but this is a problem with not getting the edges keen enough. A-2 is difficult to get extremely sharp, but the diamond stones will not get you there. Unfortunately, there is no readily available alternative for non-A-2 blades that fit Lie-Nielsen planes, so you must work with what you have and learn better technique. Watch their instructional videos on the subject. Good luck.

[Frederick Skelly]

At this point I'm researching after market irons (hock o1, veritas pmv11) to see what would fit. Even my block plane is showing a weak edge. I took apart my jack plane that I can't remember the last time I sharpened and as a blind test my fiancé felt more of a burr on the lie Nielsen after a handful of passes than the jack that probably has a couple hours of use.

Adam, you bought a quality tool from a quality manufacturer. Don't buy an aftermarket iron under any circumstances. Let LN make it right, even if it means sending all 3 irons back. They dont want you to have a flawed tool.

As others have said: Either the steel has a problem - which you might be able to tediously grind past. Or there's a subtle problem with your sharpening technique. Or, as David Farmer points out, you have some abrasive wood. I'm guessing it's not your sharpening technique if you've been sharpening the same way with your other irons. So try David's idea and then call LN.

Please let us know what happens here.
Fred

[William Gullage]

DMT does make an 8000 grit stone. http://www.bestsharpeningstones.com/mobile/catalog/dmt_dia_sharp_ee8000.html

it doesn't produce an edge quality like my Shapton 8000 but it does a wonderful job of getting a polished edge.

But I agree, LN wouldn't have three bad blades from different planes. Maybe one bad apple, but not three.

[Adam Chevalier]

After really letting some of the advice sink in, I went and double checked my blades to see if the scratch patterns from the lower grit stones were showing. Turns out what I thought was just a scratch pattern from my 8000 was from my lower stones. I'll have a long day of polishing backs today and see if that won't fix my problem and report back.

I have a hard time believing these are faulty tools, maybe one but not three. I feel I'm at fault somewhere, I appreciate everyone helping figure out where.

[William Fretwell]

I had a lot of very difficult black walnut to plane. I used 40 degrees. My LV BU A2 edge suffered great wear on the back edge and needed frequent sharpening. I would not describe the edge as rolling over, just blunt after a few minutes. I would strop the blade front get a few more strokes then back to the sharpening. The same set up would plane Cherry effortlessly for ages. At the same time I planed some old quarter sawn White Oak that was the hardest wood I ever planed but even that was much kinder to the blade than the Black Walnut.
You could try increasing the angle to 40 degrees. It would like to say it's just your wood, it's certainly highlighting the problem with your blades but getting A2 to roll is weird. From what I've seen it just pits and rounds over, it never gets as sharp as 01.

[Derek Cohen]

William makes a relevant point. Try the blades on a few other types of hardwoods.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

The chance of a manufactured blade from LN, LV, Hock, similar being bad is so near to zero it can be practically eliminated as a variable.

I had a new blade from hock that kept chipping very lightly at one spot. Any guesses as to who was at fault? Hint: it was not Ron Hock. Going back to soft ark on up a second time on the back side cured the problem.

[Jeff Ranck]

Although sometimes the very first edge portion of a new blade can be different (softer, whatever) just because of how it came through the heat treating process. I think that is what you meant by try honing a few more times and if it is still a problem, then start worrying. Sometimes you do need to grind back just a bit to get into the "good" steel.

[Brian Holcombe]

There is a truth to that along with the fact that one normally does not rework the back with each sharpening and so the edge is improving because coarse marks that are otherwise hard to see are slowing eroding away. I've liked practically every blade I own a bit more after long use and a few sharpenings.

[Adam Chevalier]

I tried working some of this advice with my 1/2 chisel from Lie Nielsen (smallest tool in A2 I could try). Took my time and really made sure each grit was removed by the next and got a nice finish on it. Proceeded to test the edge in paring SYP. I had some nice shavings, but looked at the chisel and saw a good size chip in the edge that scratched my nicely finished back. The chisel just came in this week so it probably needs a few more sharpenings. However, the edge didn't roll over so I'd call it some improvement.

I don't have any of these issues with my old vintage tools. Maybe the softer steel was more forgiving.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Adam, where do you live? (Roughly speaking). If you live near me, we can sharpen it up and even try some of my other blades and planes to see how they react on your wood.

If you see the problem on all three blades, I would not rework all 3, I would start with one in case your process does not help.

[Brian Holcombe]

Also, I should have mentioned this earlier but diamond plates do not make for a fine edge, they cut very well and do the edge will always have some serration to it until you get way way up there in terms of fineness. Finish with a fine synthetic stone. I prefer a natural finisher and HC steel but a workable edge can be made in A2. Aside from that, load a "strop" made of MDF or plywood with green compound and finish the edge with that.

[Adam Chevalier]

I live in Savannah Georgia area.

I was just looking at getting a water stone for polishing but I have some doubts it will keep my edges from rolling over so fast.

[John K Jordan]

Once I had a random batch of regular Red Oak that was some how loaded with a blade destroying mineral (Silica?). As in one pass and the blade was toast. I had to burn the stuff.

I still have a walnut slab like that I probably should just burn. It was very old walnut about 3" thick. It dulled a new Starrett bimetal bandsaw blade with just a very few cuts.

I didn't notice if anyone suggested testing the hardness of the steel with a file.

JKJ

[Robert LaPlaca]

This is what I was driving at earlier as well, I recently planed a slab that had been sanded, likely by some sort of industrial belt and it was hell on my blades. Once the top layer was off then it planed normally.

Oh yes, its a admonishment from carving instructors to never sand any carving that may see an edge tool again, the grit is sure to dull the carving tool

[Robert LaPlaca]

Adam, I have quite a collection of Lie-Nielsen planes, all with A2 blades.. Love them.. I know some folks aren't fans of A2, but I find that Lie-Nielsen A2 works quite well in their planes.

I sharpen the blades on Shapton pro 1200, 5000, 8000 stones, generally find the blades in a new plane might only need to see the 1200 stone initially to remove the grind marks from the factory bevel establishment, I have never personally used a diamond plate, but I would imagine an 800 grit on how well the blade is presented from the factory grind might be a step backwards.

One other interesting observation is I generally don't find that I get much of a burr when I sharpen the blades on the Shaptons, so I find your observation when sharpening on diamond curious. In all honesty the only time I raised much of a burr on a Lie-Nielsen blade was when I ground a new heavily radiused blade for use in a jack, using a 120 grit blue zirconia with my belt shapener.

[Adam Chevalier]

Well just to report back. I remembered I had some wet dry sandpaper from a unrelated project. I ran one of my plane blades through the gauntlet up to 2000 grit and what a difference. The finish from the 2000 grit sand paper was better than the finish from my 8000 grit DMT and it wasn't even close. I rehoned the blade using the same process to get a mirror (at least the closest I've ever gotten) on the back and bevel. It was by far the best edge I've ever gotten and the plane cut well. After a good pile of shavings off a cherry board, I took apart the plane and the cutting edge was still in good shape.

So with that being said, I'm going to be purchasing some water stones. I'm sure there's thousands of threads on the topic that I'll be researching as well, but does anyone here have any recommendations on brand and grit schedules?

[Frederick Skelly]

Shapton 500, 1000, 6000 is mine.
Glad you figured it out!
Fred

[Adam Chevalier]

I'm leaning towards Shapton Pro 1000, 5000, and 8000 at the minute.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Well just to report back. I remembered I had some wet dry sandpaper from a unrelated project. I ran one of my plane blades through the gauntlet up to 2000 grit and what a difference. The finish from the 2000 grit sand paper was better than the finish from my 8000 grit DMT and it wasn't even close. I rehoned the blade using the same process to get a mirror (at least the closest I've ever gotten) on the back and bevel. It was by far the best edge I've ever gotten and the plane cut well. After a good pile of shavings off a cherry board, I took apart the plane and the cutting edge was still in good shape.


Adam glad you found your issue with the sharping regime.. FWIW I have found cherry, for being a tame domestic hardwood to be the most evil as far as containing silica, it does a wonderful job of dulling and chipping M42 (HSS) jointer and planer knives

[Jim Koepke]

I'm leaning towards Shapton Pro 1000, 5000, and 8000 at the minute.

If I was in the market for new stones this would be my first choice:

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=335_404_403&products_id=1667&zenid=672cc1c2a688124339d355f52b4bac80

Many good things have been said about the stones and the proprietor.

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

I have had excellent service from the above mentioned Sigma stone set on the LN A2 blades. I also bought the set from Stu at Tools From Japan. Once the back is flat (LN blade came that way) and the initial bevel is set, it is a quick operation to re hone blades using this set. I use the same set for older Stanley and Sorby 01 blades as well.

[Allen Jordan]

I have shapton pro up to 15k grit and they work well. I've heard good things about sigma stones too, they might be better at cutting the high alloy steels too (like pm-v11).

[John C Cox]

This is a dumb question and all... But if sandpaper worked so well - why are you in a big rush to drop a pile of cash on a set of water stones? Those stones take ongoing maintenance to keep them flat, happy, and crack free....

The huge advantage of sandpaper is that its disposable. Dull a piece and you just throw it away.. Go stick on a new piece.

Theres no flattening and deglazing and bathtubs of water to keep them happy...

If you iust want water stones - then go get them and be happy.. But previous to buying a worksharp - my best sharpening decision ever was going from stones to sandpaper.

[Dave Zellers]

But previous to buying a worksharp - my best sharpening decision ever was going from stones to sandpaper.
I own a WorkSharp 3000 and you would have to pry it out of my cold dead hands, but it is no substitute for the wealth of sharpening knowledge that exists inside this forum. My experience opposes yours apparently. Once I started asking questions here, and applying the advice, my sharpening results took a dramatic turn for the better. It did require an investment, both money and time, but IMO, it was well worth it. Tools I have used, and sharpened, for decades are now performing better than ever for me. I am just now entering that sweet spot of having the hard labor of flatening chisel and iron backs behind me and now touch ups are a simple, quick exercise.
For me, the WorkSharp 3000 is an awesome way to re-establish a bevel but it will never be a substitute for a final edge.
But my experience might not mirror yours.

[Sergey Petrov]

I need to try improve the polish of my blade backs to see if it will improve edge retention.

[Brian Holcombe]

This is a dumb question and all... But if sandpaper worked so well - why are you in a big rush to drop a pile of cash on a set of water stones? Those stones take ongoing maintenance to keep them flat, happy, and crack free....

The huge advantage of sandpaper is that its disposable. Dull a piece and you just throw it away.. Go stick on a new piece.

Theres no flattening and deglazing and bathtubs of water to keep them happy...

If you iust want water stones - then go get them and be happy.. But previous to buying a worksharp - my best sharpening decision ever was going from stones to sandpaper.

Many reasons, some of which; Sandpaper is more expensive over a long period of time. Sandpaper dubs the edges when flattening, this is especially annoying as one progresses to the fine steps of the process and sandpaper does not offer the same finish as a fine whetstone (oil or water).

[george wilson]

I only scanned all these responses. However I will mention that if the name on the blade is "etched" into the steel to some depth,the blade is A2. A2 is an air hardening steel. LN now uses A2 steel,unless you somehow got an OLD iron, which is not likely. All the air hardening steels (That I have tried) will DECARB on the surface unless protected from the air, while hot, by being in an inert gas filled furnace,or by being wrapped in stainless steel foil. If not,the steel will decarb,sometimes to about 1/32" deep ( Or so it seemed).Air hardening steels require higher hardening temperatures than 01 or W1 oil or water hardening steels. These are the types f tool steels you might see a blacksmith using,and heating it in the open air. Even so,they had the old motto "If you would a good edge win,forge thick, and grind thin".

I am wondering if your blade was not protected from air while hot. By hot,I mean clear up to the critical temperature needed to harden the steel. That would look like an orange heat to the observer.

Once you grind the bevel back till hard steel is reached,it should be alright. Test the edge with a NEW FINE CUT FILE. If it readily files the edge,the steel is too soft,and you must be in the decarbed area. The file should NOT file the iron when the fully hardened area is reached.

NOW,IF THE IRON was exposed to air over its entire outer surface,the WHOLE IRON may never have a hard edge,because the whole skin of the blade is soft. NO MATTER how much the bevel is ground back,you will still have a cutting edge that is soft,because the entire surface of the iron was decarbed.

IF that blade does not get hard and stay sharp SOON, after you've ground away at least something over 1/32", pack it up and return it to LN. It is TOO DEFECTIVE,and cannot be made to ever take a sharp edge,and hold it.

I did not ever have an inert gas furnace,but used the high temperature type of stainless foil(there are 2 types). To insure that the SMALL amount of oxygen still inside the stainless wrapper did not decarb the air hardening steel within,I wouldf put a piece of BROWN(no clay) paper inside the envelope,the size of a SMALL postage stamp. About the size of a nickel,only square. I had to be careful as a too large size piece of paper would blow a hole in the stainless wrap. The stainless wrap is VERY DELICATE at full hardening heat. Sometimes,though it IS NOT the usual,or the RECOMMENDED thing to do,I'd put a little KASENITE(case hardening powder) inside the envelope. I never had any noticable trouble with blades I did that to. Kasenite added carbon to the surface to harden the surface of LO CARBON mild steels. But,only several thousandths deep. Again,I had to be careful how much I added,as the Kasenite would turn into a gas,and pop the stainless envelope open. If that ever happened,the parts inside would be ruined.

But,using stainless wrapping took time,and it isn't real cheap,so an inert gas furnace is the best answer. Things thus protected from the air would come out bright and clean,not blackened by the heat,and the air. I'd even wrap 01 and W1 parts,which would not decarb to any appreciable degree,if I wanted those particular parts to be kept bright.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Two additional comments George: first, I don't believe Kasenite is on the market anymore. There is a product that is similar, and if I remember correctly, it is called "Cherry Red". I'm in my office and miles from my home shop, where I have the product, so, if anyone wants to know the name, PM me and I'll respond tonight. The product is available from MSC.

Second, be very, very careful with the stainless steel foil wrap! It is razor sharp (don't ask how I found that out!).

[Adam Chevalier]

This is a dumb question and all... But if sandpaper worked so well - why are you in a big rush to drop a pile of cash on a set of water stones? Those stones take ongoing maintenance to keep them flat, happy, and crack free....

The huge advantage of sandpaper is that its disposable. Dull a piece and you just throw it away.. Go stick on a new piece.

Theres no flattening and deglazing and bathtubs of water to keep them happy...

If you iust want water stones - then go get them and be happy.. But previous to buying a worksharp - my best sharpening decision ever was going from stones to sandpaper.

Brian hit it on the head. Much more expensive in the long run. Also a pain to keep the paper stuck down and it wears down fast. I'd rather pay more now to save later. I'm very much so in the camp buy once cry once.

I ordered Shapton pro 1000, 5000, and 10000. The 1000 was out of stock everywhere, I have it back ordered and should be shipping Friday. In the mean time I'll be working on polishing all of the lower grit scratches off my blades. Thanks again guys.

[Pete Taran]

A couple random thoughts.

What George notes above about foil is right on point. However, technology has changed on the foil front. Check out: http://www.swagedies.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CBST&Product_Code=HTC-1&Category_Code=HTREAT

I've used it to make some custom chisels and irons and it is great stuff. No need for foil, sacrificial carbon or anything of the like. Just heat the part slightly, shake on some of this stuff so the part it covered, let cool and put in the oven to heat soak.

Second, there is no need to go to all these lengths with your iron. Even an edge made with 220 grit sandpaper will stay sharp if the steel is hard enough. LN is not selling plane kits, he is selling top dollar planes that are supposed to work out of the box. The ultimate way to determine if your iron is too soft is to measure it. Look very closely at your plane iron. Is there a tiny dot that looks like a punch mark on the iron near the cutting edge? Could be on the front or the back. It will look like a tiny dimple, if there isn't one, it means your iron likely wasn't tested for hardness and could be faulty. If there is one, then it could still be faulty if the machine was not set up and ready properly,

I have a Wilson Hardness tester and will gladly test one of your irons if you want to ship it to me and put a return postage paid label in the box. Hardness is the ultimate proxy for quality. If your iron tests at 40 on the C Scale, it's never going to get hard enough to hold an edge. Could have been all the carbon migrated out like George noted, or more likely could have been improperly tempered and most of the hardness has been removed. Only way to know is to test.

[Andy Nichols]

These guys know a lot more about metal than I do, so great knowledge here.

Just musing, my first thought was that you should leave off the strop, when one over strops, and folds the edge, the blade may cut for a few strokes then stop cutting.

Regards,
Andy

mos maiorum

[Adam Chevalier]

A couple random thoughts.

What George notes above about foil is right on point. However, technology has changed on the foil front. Check out: http://www.swagedies.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CBST&Product_Code=HTC-1&Category_Code=HTREAT

I've used it to make some custom chisels and irons and it is great stuff. No need for foil, sacrificial carbon or anything of the like. Just heat the part slightly, shake on some of this stuff so the part it covered, let cool and put in the oven to heat soak.

Second, there is no need to go to all these lengths with your iron. Even an edge made with 220 grit sandpaper will stay sharp if the steel is hard enough. LN is not selling plane kits, he is selling top dollar planes that are supposed to work out of the box. The ultimate way to determine if your iron is too soft is to measure it. Look very closely at your plane iron. Is there a tiny dot that looks like a punch mark on the iron near the cutting edge? Could be on the front or the back. It will look like a tiny dimple, if there isn't one, it means your iron likely wasn't tested for hardness and could be faulty. If there is one, then it could still be faulty if the machine was not set up and ready properly,

I have a Wilson Hardness tester and will gladly test one of your irons if you want to ship it to me and put a return postage paid label in the box. Hardness is the ultimate proxy for quality. If your iron tests at 40 on the C Scale, it's never going to get hard enough to hold an edge. Could have been all the carbon migrated out like George noted, or more likely could have been improperly tempered and most of the hardness has been removed. Only way to know is to test.


I may take you up on that offer if I still have problems.

I'm starting to think my problem is burr removal. When I raise a burr, my succeeding honing rarely (if ever) made it fall off or reduce it. Usually after my final honing the bevel, I still have quite a burr to remove from the back. Could this be the root of the problem? Maybe I'm having a false edge of sorts and only straightening the burr out?


I got the stones because I realized how lack luster my set up was, not as a magic bullet. I also ordered Hocks book on the perfect edge trying to educate myself further. I think the burr was done better when I moved to sand paper and that was why I got a better edge.

[Jim Koepke]

[edit]
I got the stones because I realized how lack luster my set up was, not as a magic bullet. I also ordered Hocks book on the perfect edge trying to educate myself further. I think the burr was done better when I moved to sand paper and that was why I got a better edge.

Like everyone else you will see the road to sharpening nirvana is a long journey. What seemed sharp to me a few years ago now seems like a good starting point on an edge.

There are many different techniques and methods of sharpening. Something can be learned by looking at all of them. In the morass known as the wide world of sharpening theory you will hopefully find some little gems of knowledge that work best for you.

jtk

[William Fretwell]

Adam, it seems your first step is to re-do the sharpening from the start. Flatten an inch of back, go through all the stones until it is polished, forget stropping. Do the same to the edge, use a guide if you have one to eliminate that variable. At a high enough grit (8000x) or above the remaining burr will be so fine it will come off or a slight movement of the back on your highest stone will remove it.
If you have been creating a large burr, not removing it and rolling it by planing then that's very fixable.
I would not use a diamond sharpening system above 1200x. They are so aggressive and its very easy to use a water stone at higher grits.
Try abrasive papers glued to glass to see if you can get an edge. George's file test would tell you a lot. There is a lot you can do to fix this before you blame the steel. We all go through intense learning experiences periodically. Years back I was convinced I needed a particular diameter file to sharpen my chainsaw properly; I was wrong.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Adam, I see your stones are for sale over in classifieds. I hate to see somebody come here for advice, and then spend a lot of money on something they don't end up being able to use. Are the stones not working for you, or did you find another solution so that you don't need them? Are your edges still giving you trouble?

[george wilson]

Pete: I am aware that Kasenite has been off the market. But,I still have some. I don't think "Cherry Red" is as good a product. I am VERY GLAD to see the Corbin,however!! Lower heat treating steels than A2 were able to get by with hi-temp engine enamels. Not A2,though. I'll have to order me a bottle of that new stuff!!:) Thanks for mentioning it. That is a VERY VALUABLE TIP,INDEED!!!!:) Now that I'm retired,I am sort of out of the latest news on new products.

Yes,the foil is sharp and dangerous to work with. I have had my share of cuts,too! And,it is impossible to get it tight enough around he object being heat treated to NOT still have some air inside the envelope. Hence the little bits of paper,and a GUESS of how much paper is just enough to burn up all the oxygen,but not burst the envelope(which I HAVE had happen a few times!) It will be VERY NICE to not have that happen any more!!!

As a last note,the Corbin @ $42.00 is a LOT cheaper than the high temp foil @ $200.00(?) (I still have a supply of that,too. The price has always been obnoxious !) And,it will go farther than a roll of the higher temp foil,it looks like. So,many thanks for mentioning it!!!!!!!!! I'll tell my friend and co-worker Jon. I think I'll order a bottle later today,after Oregon wakes up!! Jon is always making damascus knives,and I did call him before I added on to this post. He was very glad to hear about it!!

Kasenite will not penetrate as well as aquarium charcoal,which every pet store carries. It is full of microscopic holes,which aids greatly in the generation of gas to case harden the steel. I DID get a 1/32" deep coating with aquarium charcoal once,by heating the parts in a crucible of it for about 2 hours. Kasenite is only good for a small case. I used it in the envelope as a precaution sometimes.