Now that I have my new table saw...

[Bobby Newsom]

I need a jointer so my wood can be flat and squared up. Looking at the Grizzly G0656W, maybe upgrading to a helical cutterhead. I'd like to hear some feedback from folks who have jointers, even of other brands and models

Looking at the Grizzly G0656W, maybe upgrading to a helical cutterhead. Here's my thoughts:

Pros:
-- 8 inch - I figure better to go ahead and bite the bullet on this one
-- Will run on my existing 240V circuit (will need a replacement plug for the jointer though)
-- Long table

Cons:
-- More money than I have been considering spending on a jointer (budget was for $500-$800)


Thoughts?

[Vinito Caleb]

I very nearly pulled the trigger on a Grizzly jointer last week. I ended up punting it down the road and picked up an older 6" Grizzly for cheap money off CL for now.
I was looking strongly at the G0490 since it had the parallelogram bed, which has provision to make it a little easier to adjust to co-planer if necessary. Having said that, it's not too difficult to adjust with shims (outfeed table get's 'em) so it's not a big deal, it was the "minor" $100 difference that made my brain go "meh". I think you'd be happy with either one. Having used mine a bit with the lever height adjustment rather than wheels, I think I'd prefer to have wheels, which the G0656 has while the G0490 has the levers. I think the wheels would give better control while the levers are just "faster". So maybe it's a wash. Note that IF you have to use shims to adjust the beds to be co-planer (which ideally you shouldn't if they just made the thing right, but Murphy has a way) you should only have to do that once and you're done.

I looked at length at the helical cutterhead thing. My summary findings were that if they weren't available, then straight knives would be fine. But since they exist, the several benefits they offer are worth it even though it bumps the price up so much. This is based on tons of reviews and videos, which pretty much unanimously yell from the rooftops to bite the bullet and get the spiral cutterhead. So much so that even though I had a working 6" jointer from Craigslist home and snuggly in my shop, I immediately ordered a spiral cutterhead and installed it as soon as it arrived. I have to say, it is very, very nice compared to straight knives. The finish is great, it's quiet and I didn't have to get out gauges and set up three blades to a perfect match, which is just another thing keeping a guy away from cutting some wood.

The Shelix (Byrd) gets good reviews, but I also saw a few where the end user did not get good customer service for a problem. It's difficult to know the honest truth from otherwise, but it was there to find so I give it whatever value it seemed worth. Most people love their Shelix heads so...

There is some comparison of the standard Grizzly spiral cutterhead to the Shelix in terms of orientation of the inserts. Namely the Shelix is set so to make a shearing cut and the Grizzly hits the wood square-on. The verdict from the reviews I read all said that the Shelix might perform slightly better, but in the end the Grizzly does extremely well too. Oddly, what I found and bought was a spiral head from Grizzly which is not Shelix nor is it the standard Grizzly. It's similar to the Shelix in setup (with the shear angle insert orientation and convex insert face) but has one less row (4 rows vs. 5) of larger inserts with less space between them than the Shelix. And about a hundred bucks cheaper. (link to the one I bought) (http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Helical-Spiral-Cutterhead-for-Jointers/T27698)
I am extremely happy with it.

Long story longer, from what I could find with a ton of searching, any of the spiral cutterheads available apparently perform similarly, all very well and all very much preferred over straight knives. It's worth the investment. Save up for it if you have to.

edit to add: Note that I am a fairly unexperienced woodworker. I am intimately familiar with working metal and comfortable assessing a machine and/or component, but if more experienced opinions differ from mine then give them their due weight.

[Andrew Hughes]

If you get a jointer with a HH head you will never learn how to set jointer knives.Or the joy of sharpening your own knives and the reward of that work.
I have a Bryd head in my planer and knives in my jointer.

[Bobby Newsom]

AH -

That may be so. But I know myself well enough to know that I'm going to appreciate something more if it requires less upkeep/maintenance. And just as importantly, less upgrades down the road.

[Jim Riseborough]

If you get a jointer with a HH head you will never learn how to set jointer knives.Or the joy of sharpening your own knives and the reward of that work.
I have a Bryd head in my planer and knives in my jointer.

Lol, I hope you are being sarcastic!

[Matt Day]

I'd save the money on the helical head for the jointer. All my lumber goes through the planer on both sides so the helical head would be moot for the jointer. If I had a pile of cash laying around I might do it.

[Rick Moyer]

I'd save the money on the helical head for the jointer. All my lumber goes through the planer on both sides so the helical head would be moot for the jointer. If I had a pile of cash laying around I might do it.
This has always been my opinion, too. Unless you are skipping the planning process I don't see the "need" for a helical on a jointer. Sure it would be nice but the planer makes more sense if only one.
As far as adjusting, I maybe have adjusted my jointer once in the ten+ years I've owned it. Also a moot point for me.

[Robert Engel]

I think if you were to have 1 it would be the planer. If you're buying a jointer, for the little extra cost I would do it and have a mind toward a helical planer in the future. I would love to, but in my case a 20" helical head for my planer is ~$900+.

I upgraded to 8" helical head about a year ago and never regretted it. The deciding factors for me were little to no tear out, less noise, no blades to sharpen or replace or reinstall. I have yet to rotate the cutters the first time and quite a bit of lumber has been through it.

If you only have a helical jointer, when dealing with wood prone to tear out, you can rejoint after thicknessing just leave it heavy out of the planer.

[Samuel Green]

For what its worth. I recently picked up a Powermatic 54a 6 inch off the app Letgo. It is my first jointer and while quite a few ppl said buy an 8 inch I figured for $350 I could get my money back and but the 8 inch when the 6 inch really creates a problem. In my small amount of experience in acquiring tools I've realized that a lot of people think they want to be woodworkers and buy nice equipment only to realize a few years later they don't have the time and sell great equipment with little use. I will always look second hand for tools before I buy new.

[Chris Hachet]

For what its worth. I recently picked up a Powermatic 54a 6 inch off the app Letgo. It is my first jointer and while quite a few ppl said buy an 8 inch I figured for $350 I could get my money back and but the 8 inch when the 6 inch really creates a problem. In my small amount of experience in acquiring tools I've realized that a lot of people think they want to be woodworkers and buy nice equipment only to realize a few years later they don't have the time and sell great equipment with little use. I will always look second hand for tools before I buy new.

One can do very well in the used market.

[Roger Feeley]

You guys and your helical heads. I remember back in the day when I was a shop teacher (drafting)... The woodworking guy tried to order a Powermatic 24" planer ever year with a 'silent head'. As I remember, it had a bunch of little blades instead of a few long ones. Anyway, every year he got turned down. One year, the thing showed up and he was over the moon. Then the Asst Superintendent showed up and sent it back. It seemed that he didn't press hard enough on the multipart requisition form when he drew the line through the order. I always thought that was just plain cruel. At the time, I think that planer was around $2K and included a grinder for sharpening.

[glenn bradley]

AH -

That may be so. But I know myself well enough to know that I'm going to appreciate something more if it requires less upkeep/maintenance. And just as importantly, less upgrades down the road.

For a real world example; my G0490X helical head premium paid for itself at about the 18 month mark based on my previous knife sharpening / replacing schedule. Factoring in that I recently bought a full set of inserts on a special from a provider that sells sets by Grizzly (and other) machine model numbers, I am still financially ahead. Oh, and I haven't missed setting knives at all ;-)

[Art Mann]

Those who recommend against a segmented spiral head simply don't know the benefits. It doesn't matter how slow or careful you are. If you plane or joint figured wood, you are going to get tear out. There is no way around it. If you have a spiral cutter head, the problem will be reduced by maybe 90%. If you research enough, you will see that what I say is true.

[Andrew Hughes]

The Bryd heads have their place in planer.I have the PM 15 HH but most of the time my wood is not curly knotty Barnwood and the surface the planer leaves takes more time to prepare for finishing if that's the side I need.
I sold my 8 jointer with the spiral head and went back to straight knives.I couldn't be happier no more pushing down hard when I'm facing boards because the carbide inserts are not dull but not really sharp.
I haven't seen anymore hit and miss glue lines on tables from the furrows rows inserts leaves.
It does take time to accurately learn to set knives in a jointer.But it's a skill worth learning.

[Doug Landphair]

You've gotten some great advice and a range of views on helical vs spiral vs straight knives. About 2 years ago I bit the bullet when Jet had a 15% off their woodworking tools and bought an 8" HH jointer and a 15" HH plane to replace a Ridgid 6" jointer and a Delta 22-580 13" planer. I couldn't be happier with the results. Both the Jet jointer and planer are much quieter than the Ridgid and Delta tools. (Bench top planers are notorious for being noisy.) Yup, it was a chunk of change but for my purposes well worth it. These are tools I'll keep for the rest of my life.

[Dave Cav]

I had a slightly earlier version of that 8" Grizzly jointer (no mobile base) with the helical head, and I was very happy with it. I used it for several years without any problems, and the only reason I sold it was I got a pretty good deal on an Invicta 12" jointer. I then spent almost as much as the jointer cost for a Byrd head for it, which will be installed this summer. I also put helical heads in my two PM 8" jointers at school, and the 12" PM thickness planer. As far as I am concerned, straight knives in jointers and planers are as obsolete as steel blades in table saws or HSS router bits. (But steel knives in shaper heads are another story.)

[Adam Merritt]

There is some comparison of the standard Grizzly spiral cutterhead to the Shelix in terms of orientation of the inserts. Namely the Shelix is set so to make a shearing cut and the Grizzly hits the wood square-on. The verdict from the reviews I read all said that the Shelix might perform slightly better, but in the end the Grizzly does extremely well too. Oddly, what I found and bought was a spiral head from Grizzly which is not Shelix nor is it the standard Grizzly. It's similar to the Shelix in setup (with the shear angle insert orientation and convex insert face) but has one less row (4 rows vs. 5) of larger inserts with less space between them than the Shelix. And about a hundred bucks cheaper. (link to the one I bought) (http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Helical-Spiral-Cutterhead-for-Jointers/T27698)
I am extremely happy with it.

I stopped by the Grizzly showroom in MO on Friday and learned this exact thing. I had asked about the difference between the G0454Z and G1003X planers, and the number one thing the salesman pointed out was the different cutterhead. The 15mm cutters are set like a Shelix, whereas the 14mm are straight cut. I can't promise this holds to all models/heads, but, the 15mm heads that are darker (maybe black) are 15mm and have the shear angle, whereas the 14mm straight cut heads are silver. Now that I know to look closely, you can see the difference in even on the online pictures.

[Nick Stokes]

I consider myself an expert on spending other people's money. Looking for a jointer, IMO, you have only 2 real choices.

Option 1. - Used 6" jointer. These are almost as common as RAS on CL - Look to spend 2-300 for a used 6" jointer. They're almost all the same anyway. It's cheap, so don't worry about feeler gauges and dumb crap like that. Buy it, use it, re-sell it when you want bigger.

Option 2: New 8" helical. - If you're buying new, buy 8" (there is a reason 6" are so common on CL), and if you're buying new, buy Helical (there is a reason so many guys upgrade their heads... ).

Anything that isn't Option 1 or Option 2 is a waste of time and money IMO. Like I said, I'm an expert with your money.

[Bobby Newsom]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Learned some things in this thread that I wasn't aware of previously.

[Bob Grier]

I just have to throw this thought out. My basis for making this statement is that I currently have 8" parallel jointer with straight blades bought used of CL and I have 15" HH planer. I send boards through planer for final pass. I have learned that if a jointer blade gets a little out of alignment or a nick, or the grain gets torn, this is not important because once flat, I send through the planer and it leaves very nice finish surface.

If you are considering spending more money for a new 8" HH jointer, vs $600 to $800 for a used 8" parallel jointer with straight knives, just to cut down noise or to avoid setting the straight knives or for a smoother surface then consider this. Maybe you could step up to a 20" HH planer with the money you save going with used 8" jointer. A 20" HH planer would be really nice if you plan on doing glue ups.

I often use a sled to run boards wider than 8" through the planer to flatten one side. And, sometimes I also have to use the drum sander to surface glue ups if they are wider than 14.5" and won't fit the planer. A 20" HH planer would take care of all my glue ups but the 15" does not.

A 20" HH planer and 8" jointer with straight knives would be much nicer for me than 15" HH planer and 8" HH jointer. You might have to throw in a little more $ for the 20" planer option but it sounds like money might not be controlling constraint here.

[Joe Craven]

Another vote for the Grizzly G0490X. I deployed one of these a few weeks ago (replacing a 6" Jet that was perfectly fine for hobby use) and it's a world's worth of difference. I have a Steel City lunchbox planer that is a sibling of many other brand's models, and it has the helical head, too. I don't use any of my tools enough to worry about the time that it take to sharpen them, but I'm also with the OP on the point that I don't enjoy time in the shop on tasks like sharpening. I can sharpen with the best of them...just not my preferred task. As such I think helical is the only way to go...even for a hobbyist and especially nowadays since the price difference seems nominal.

FWIW, I think if I did more commissioned work or if I were a "professional", the choice would be even more clear.