Wide Chisel Question

[JohnM Martin]

First, let me say I'm new to the forums and a newbie woodworker so I apologize in advance for the elementary question.

Recently, I've been researching cutting mortise and tenon joints with hand tools. It seems that more than one resource suggests pairing the shoulder of the tenon with a wide (1 1/2" or 2") chisel. I don't have such a chisel and what I'm trying to understand is why none of the premium makers manufacture such a chisel. I have found vintage chisels on the auction site, but i didnt see them offered by Lie Nielsen or Veritas. Am I looking in the wrong place? What do you all suggest for paring tenon shoulders?

[Andy Hutyera]

I use wide slicks as you describe in canoe building. I had to find mine from auction sites and old tool dealers. I have never used them to pare tenons preferring to use a good shoulder plane instead. Veritas makes a really nice one.

[Mike Henderson]

My theory is that most people don't use a chisel that wide and therefore there's not much demand for them. But they're available on eBay. Since they don't get a lot of use, there's not much sense paying for some exotic steel for them. The old chisels of plain carbon steel fill the bill at that width.

I have seen some pretty wide modern Japanese chisels but I don't know exactly how wide they were.

Mike

[Malcolm Schweizer]

It's a good question. I like a wide chisel for paring shoulders and truing mortises. I settled on the Veritas butt chisels. They are wide and still long enough to do mortise work. I do believe the Narex chisels are offered in a bit wider version than the other guys offer. Also the Stanley Sweetheart set has a wider chisel than the Lie-Nielsen version, although I do not remember how wide they go.

[Phil Mueller]

I don't tend to use anything beyond 1", or a shoulder plane as mentioned above. I do have a new Irwin 1 1/2" I use for paring the walls of mortises or faces of tenons. I don't do a lot of volume, so edge retention isn't really an issue for me. Any newer, wider chisel, well sharpened should last through a normal paring session.

[Stew Denton]

Hi John,

Welcome to the creek and Neander forum.

If you aren't necessarily inclined to buy a new premium chisel you can save some money buying a vintage chisel and restoring it.

I like to look for old paring chisels on the Bay auction site. You should be able to get a decent one for not a ton of money. If you don't go for the collectors chisels you should be able to buy one for a reasonable amount, that can be restored without a ton of work.

Look for one with a good handle, and that the back is not corroded. A patina or very light surface rust is OK, but don't buy one that is pitted.
You want to get the back dead flat, or close, and get the surface worked down to almost a mirror finish, at least near the business end. For that reason you don't want pits that are a pain to get rid of.

Regards,

Stew

[lowell holmes]

I have a 2" wide bevel edge chisel that I use occasionally. It really does not get much use, but when I need it, I'm glad to have it.

If you google 2" wide chisel there will be several selections.

[Warren Mickley]

I have used a 1 inch chisel for 40 years for this purpose. I have used a 2 inch chisel and a slick for heavy timber tenons, 6X6 and larger.

I would learn to make nice fitting tenons, get some experience under your belt, and then worry about whether a wider chisel might be nicer to have.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy John and welcome to the Creek.

Often my tenons are trimmed with a large chisel. A shoulder plane is sometimes used for small tenons.

My accumulation of chisels has a few wider than an inch. They see use often.

Often an old Union Hardware, Greenlee, PS&W or other brand are available for less than a premium price.

Ouch! Just looked at the auction site and saw what the prices are on these. There are a few inexpensive choices.

Maybe it is time to start selling my excess tools to buy a bigger bandsaw.

jtk

[John Schtrumpf]

I find a largish chisel for general paring work handy. I also prefer it to be a size I can comfortably use. I use a Pfeil 32 mm (1¼") chisel that I reground the bevel to 20°. Some of the modern brands that go to at least 1½" are: Narex, Ashley Iles, Pfeil, Pfeil carving, Sorby, Blue Spruce.

I do agree with Warren, a 1" inch chisel works, and as larger chisels can get expensive, you may want to wait until you have more experience.

[Bruce Haugen]

I find a largish chisel for general paring work handy. I also prefer it to be a size I can comfortably use. I use a Pfeil 32 mm (1¼") chisel that I reground the bevel to 20°. Some of the modern brands that go to at least 1½" are: Narex, Ashley Iles, Pfeil, Pfeil carving, Sorby, Blue Spruce.

I do agree with Warren, a 1" inch chisel works, and as larger chisels can get expensive, you may want to wait until you have more experience.

I agree. I have two 2" Berg chisels, one very robust, darn near the size of a slick, maybe 14" long. The other is a short Shark-O-Lite, the size of a butt chisel. I use that one so often it doesn't even get put away; it stays on the bench all the time. I use it for paring, cleaning up the edges of big cuts, marking.

[JohnM Martin]

Ok, good to know that I'm not crazy that I can't seem to find them. It's also good to know that what I found in my research seems to be pretty common and there really is an argument for picking up a wide chisel. Now I guess the question is... should I look for a bench or butt chisel? Honestly, I didn't know butt chisels even existed until this thread - so much to learn.

[Jim Koepke]

Now I guess the question is... should I look for a bench or butt chisel?

Questions like this are best answered with one word… both.

They become handy in different places.

jtk

[Bruce Haugen]

?....Now I guess the question is... should I look for a bench or butt chisel? Honestly, I didn't know butt chisels even existed until this thread - so much to learn.

I prefer short chisels, but that's just my preference. I wouldn't make that chisel a priority until you decide you need it. For many years I used a Stanley no. 60, 1-1/4" wide.

[JohnM Martin]

I prefer short chisels, but that's just my preference. I wouldn't make that chisel a priority until you decide you need it. For many years I used a Stanley no. 60, 1-1/4" wide.

I’m in a unique position in that I don’t have much to start with. I don’t currently have any wide chisels or any shoulder planes so I need to pick up something for a table project I’m going to attempt with some large tenons. I guess the question for me now is what would be the most versatile? That’s why I was leaning towards the chisel instead of the shoulder plane.

[Matthew Springer]

I have a really wide two cherries, but can I offer another suggestion?

Use an old/spare plane blade and epoxy on a handle to one side (or both sides). You can find old plane blades with good steel cheaply. They're easy to sharpen and you don't actually need all that much force when pairing.

There's a article from one of the magazines that's completely escaped my memory, but they used a rosewood "handle" on one side epoxied on with threaded inserts, then another rosewood handle on the other side that screwed into the inserts. Basically a rosewood sandwich with the plane blade in the middle.

Then they had a flush plane or a 2.5" wide marking "chisel" when attached.

[Bruce Haugen]

I’m in a unique position in that I don’t have much to start with. I don’t currently have any wide chisels or any shoulder planes so I need to pick up something for a table project I’m going to attempt with some large tenons. I guess the question for me now is what would be the most versatile? That’s why I was leaning towards the chisel instead of the shoulder plane.

I'm in the envious position of having both wide chisels and a shoulder plane. They're both wonderful. The chisel is more versatile, IMHO. I find many uses for the shoulder plane but more uses for a chisel. If it works for Warren, it'll work for you.

[Mike Henderson]

I have a really wide two cherries, but can I offer another suggestion?

Use an old/spare plane blade and epoxy on a handle to one side (or both sides). You can find old plane blades with good steel cheaply. They're easy to sharpen and you don't actually need all that much force when pairing.

There's a article from one of the magazines that's completely escaped my memory, but they used a rosewood "handle" on one side epoxied on with threaded inserts, then another rosewood handle on the other side that screwed into the inserts. Basically a rosewood sandwich with the plane blade in the middle.

Then they had a flush plane or a 2.5" wide marking "chisel" when attached.

That's a great idea. Thanks for posting that.

Mike

[John C Cox]

This is an instance where I don't think the geometry of the current budget/cheap chisels will help you... The wide chisels in the cheap hardware store flavors seem to have short blades and a large hump where they meet the tang... And that's going to limit your cut to whatever length the blade is.. Generally pretty short... 3 or 4 inches. Maybe it doesn't matter if your tenon is only 2" long though.. In that case - Stanley, Buck, Irwin, Kobalt are generally available at local stores.

On on the big old chisels - I think I saw the opposite when I was looking for the smaller ones. Not many people use the huge wide chisels - so there were always plenty of those used.. Try to find a 1/2" or 3/4" and you were out of luck though.

As for modern offerings - there are plenty out there. Google up 50mm chisels and you will see that it's not really an uncommon size. Brands including Narex, Sorby, Two cherries, Marples..... Pick your poison.

[Frederick Skelly]

I use a wide chisel to trim shoulders. I didnt get carried away - I just went to Lowes and bought one off the shelf. Dont need it often. It stays sharp a long time.

[steven c newman]

I can just walk into any of the BORG stores around here, and walk back out with a 2" wide chisel.....IF I wanted to. Normally, the widest I ever use is a 1" wide chisel..
I also have a shoulder plane..
356214
Has a 1-1/4" wide iron, set at a skew
356215
Ohio Tool Co. 1.25" Might be older than I am?
I have a drawer full of older, wide chisels......up to a Jennings 1-1/2" wide chisel.....haven't really found much use for them...

[Malcolm McLeod]

... wide chisels or ... shoulder planes .... attempt...some large tenons .... what would be the most versatile?

First time I used a shoulder plane to tune a tenon I thought I was cheating. Can it be so easy?

[Nathan Johnson]

A while back I ordered the premium set of four Narex chisels (the ones that don't have the hoop on the top) and I like them. I think this thread has convinced me to order the 2" to match what I have and spend just a little extra over the hardware store options.

[lowell holmes]

I also have two 2" wide framing slicks that I put new handles on. They are at least 100 years old. One of them is really thick and heavy. When they were handed down to me from my Father-in-law, one had been beat upon with out handle. I filed the dings out of it and made a new handle for it. The other is a lighter chisel, not a slick really. It has a tang, so the handle is different. I really enjoy them when I have need to use one.:)

[Bill McDermott]

John, You may want to consider springing for a block rabbet plane to accomplish the tenon trimming. It is much easier to control than a chisel. It can also serve as a block plane, a shoulder plane and it can cut rabbets. In any case, if you are still building your tool kit, a block rabbet is a very versatile tool and an easy way to trim tenons. Costs more than a chisel, but you'll be glad to have it. If you don't already have a block plane - seriously consider this.

[george wilson]

In my whole career,I have never had the need to pare tenons with other than a 1" wide chisel. And,I am SUCH a chisel and carving tool HOG!!!

[Robert Engel]

For paring tenon shoulders I use a 1" chisel and/or a shoulder plane. For the faces I use a router plane. For wider tenons in I find a rabbet block plane usefull.

I don't think you need (or want) a chisel wider than 1" however, I have a 2" Narex chisel that has served me well (other than 1 hour of working on the back never could get it flat).

Larger timber frame type projects like a workbench or table you might consider a slick which I think can be purchased quite reasonably.

Another option (and carefully!) use a rasp in the manner of a float to tune up the tenons.