Craftsman Saw

[Dale Rodabaugh]

I was over at Sears this afternoon looking around while my truck was being serviced.Took a few minutes to look over the Craftsman 22114 Cabinet saw.This saw is a dead ringer for my 6 yr.old Craftsman contractor type saw.Only difference is they sit it on top of a cabinet instead of legs.This is the same saw that I cannot keep the blade lined up on.When I bought mine it was listed at $799.,bought it on sale for $699.Now the same saw is listed at $999.Only difference is the base.Any one thinking about buying one of these look it over very carefully.I have my saw up for sale,hoping to get a little out of it to put toward a quality saw.:eek: :rolleyes: :cool:

[Corey Hallagan]

The saw is a hybrid saw which is basically a suped up contractors saw. No secret there really. They do have cabinet mounted trunions. The difference is, your old craftsman CS was not made by the manufacturer of this saw. As far as looks, most contractors saws look pretty much alike with regards to their bones, but they don't all peform the same. These saws are made by Orion. I have heard no complaints on this saw with regards to alignment of any kind.. or any other problems as far as that goes. Actually I take that back, Scott Spencer here bought one had a problem and got a replacement and no further problems that he has mentioned. From what I have read, everyone who owns this saw is very very satisfied. This is a good saw, unlike your craftsman contractor saw. Delta also makes a dead ringer to this saw ( actually orion makes it as well) only it has top mounted trunions I believe.

Corey

[Dave Falkenstein]

I have my saw up for sale,hoping to get a little out of it to put toward a quality saw.:eek: :rolleyes: :cool:

Dale - I sold some Craftsman power tools over the past several years, as I upgraded to "real" tools. I advertised in the Phoenix paper and easily got half of the current pricing on a similar model. Usually the first preson to see the tool bought it. Good luck.

[Dale Rodabaugh]

Corey,hate to differ with you but the saw I looked at today is identical to my saw.Just set up in a cabinet instead of legs.Call it a hybrid or whatever,it wouldnt even begin to compare with a Shop Fox,which doesnt cost that much more,let alone a Unisaw or a General.Hope I can sell my Craftsman POS for half of what Ive got in it.:cool: :rolleyes: :eek:

[Scott Donley]

Corey,hate to differ with you but the saw I looked at today is identical to my saw.Just set up in a cabinet instead of legs.Call it a hybrid or whatever,it wouldnt even begin to compare with a Shop Fox,which doesnt cost that much more,let alone a Unisaw or a General.Hope I can sell my Craftsman POS for half of what Ive got in it.:cool: :rolleyes: :eek:Hate to differ with you, but Corey is right.You must have a rare contractor saw if it also has cabinet mounted trunions. The Beis fence is also nice and the motor does not hang out the back. No one I know of has said it compares to a Uni and not many folks have paid full price. Let's not start bad mouthing tools here that a lot of folks here own. But you are right, it is not a Unisaw.
A very happy 22124 owner:) By the way, the 22114 is not the saw that list for 999 and does not have the full cabinet.The 22114 list for 679.99 and it does have cabinet mounted trunions also.

[Scott Parks]

My neighbor has that CMan saw. It cuts straighter and smoother with the factory blade than my 2 Grizz saws with a Forrest blade ever have. The "real" Beisemeyer fence is very nice. It is dead flat. My shop fox fence is soooo wavy, that I have a hard time getting smooth rips.

[Corey Hallagan]

Ok Dale :) & I hope you are able to get a saw you love!

Corey

[Dale Rodabaugh]

Well fellas ,I know what I looked at over at Sears.Not here to bad mouth any brand.But the fact is,when I buy that new saw it will not be a Craftsman POS.The saw I have now is fine for cutting framing matl.,rough work,etc.but for cutting panels true and ripping perfectly good wood true,it leaves a lot to be desired.Have learned my lesson with Craftsman power tools.Their hand tools are just fine and reasonably priced.Course anything you buy at Sears has to be on sale.Their list prices are way too high.Go back 3 or 4 yrs.from now and try to buy replacement parts for that saw and see what happens.It will be phased out with parts no longer available.Some other co.will be making their saws.I am not bad mouthing a brand,I have just learned an expensive lesson,and I will never buy another Craftsman power tool.Hope you guys that are buying them have good luck with them.:eek: :( :cool:

[Bill Hughes]

[Well fellas ,I know what I looked at over at Sears.Not here to bad mouth any brand.But the fact is,when I buy that new saw it will not be a Craftsman POS.]

Geez, hate to see what you'd have to say if you WERE here to bad mouth any brand.

Bill

[Bart Leetch]

[QUOTE=Dale Rodabaugh]Well fellas ,I know what I looked at over at Sears.Not here to bad mouth any brand.:confused:

If that is the C-man saw with the full cabinet all the way down to the floor, I recommend that you get a flashlight & go back & look underneath the table inside the cabinet again. It does have cabinet mounted trunnions & your old saw doesn't. Thats not to say you'll like it any better but this saw is not a dead ringer for your 6 yr. old Craftsman contractor type saw.

I'm not saying you have to buy one just take the time & a flashlight & go & take another look. Don't pay attention to how they set the saw up most store employees don't know how to set a saw up anyway.

I don't really care personally I have a old used Unisaw rebuilt by me :) & yes I used to have a 1997 C-Man saw that I gave away. It was a good starter saw & I will again have a C-man saw one day that is my Dad's saw made in 1955 there is a lot of difference between the 2 saws. I still have the cabinet you see under the C-man saw in the picture & it will go under my Dad's C-man saw I will be hauling it down to his place the first week end of Nov.

[Dale Rodabaugh]

Sounds like a bunch of Sears associates here.Go ahead and buy the Craftsman power tools,hope you have good luck with them.As for me I will spend a little more $$$$ and buy a real saw.:D :D :cool:

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I don't know what the problem here is, but why do you insist on bashing a tool!?!? That is what other forums are for, not here. You made your point, however, they are not the same saw, far from it.

Also, go back through my posts and view my stuff, all of it was made on a saw 3 steps down from the one you are bashing!! Also, read my signature, it is HIGHLY true! :)

Finally, until you use the saw, how do you know it is a POS!?!? Things change over time and there are a ton of happy users of this saw. I have read one bad reveiw of the saw, from someone who ACTUALLY used it, not someone who made Assumptions. (And you know what they say about Assuming someting!).

Finally, I had a Craftsman benchtop jointer. Was it a POS no! Was it a DJ20 NO! I made some great projects with it, however, I out grew it, that is fine. It is now working in someone else's shop. It made square edges and that's all I could ask for :)

Full disclaimer: I work for a child company of Sears Holdings :) However, that has not influenced my opinions above. I had many of the craftsman tools before we were bought by sears :)

[Pete Harbin]

Well said Jeff!

Dale, I have to say that it sounds like your intent is specifically to bash the Craftsman tablesaws. To the point that your information is contrary to the specs of the machine, and to the knowledge of several folks here that have seen or put their hands on the saw. So far everyone I've read reports from, who actually own and have assembled the machine, have had really good things to say about it. Not one of them has described it as the old contractor saw dressed in a cabinet. I seem to recall that the new saws have received some good reviews from the ww mags as well. And, no, I do not own one of these new saws. I already have a saw that meets my needs for now. It's even a contractor saw. And, no, I'm not a Sears associate.

You have absolute control over your dollars and are free to choose whichever saw your heart desires, but just bashing a brand because you may not want it doesn't add any value for the rest of us here. It might be different if you had actually used and had bad experiences with the saw.

Pete

[Dale Rodabaugh]

This is my last comment on this issue.I bought a Sears Craftsman saw about 6 yrs ago.At the time it was their top of the line saw.Total cost with tax was around $735.This saw has turned out to be a POS period.I will be the judge of that,as I own the saw.There is no way a Sears salesman or saleslady is going to dissassemble a saw for me to look at the underside.What I saw was the exact dupolicate of my saw ,table, adsjustment, and everything visible.Am I going to take another chance and buy another one from Sears?Not in this lifetime.I have bought lesser power tools from them and went back 2 or 3 yrs.later for a replacement part and am told that the tool is obsolete and we can no longer get parts for it.When I spend good money for a tool I expect it to last for many years,not just til Craftsman decides to change suppliers.I have in my shop a Craftsman drill press which is a good piece of equip.I also have a Cman radial arm saw which works perfectly good.Also and old 1950 lathe and jigsaw,purchased used which work very well.The radial arm saw is about 15 yrs.old also purchased used.So I do have some Cman stuff that I am OK with.I have posted that I hope everyone is happy with thier Cman hybrid saws,and I hope they are.But for me having got bitten once by Sears on the table saw they will not get another chance.:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Dale, that is a fine rant! You feel that the saw you own is a POS, thanks for the feedback!! :)

The new saw may or may not be a POS, can't judge that w/o running it, which you and I have not :)

[Bart Leetch]

"There is no way a Sears salesman or saleslady is going to disassemble a saw for me to look at the underside"

I just opened the side door they hadn't fastened it tightly & using a pen light Looked inside.:eek: With a contractors saw I've been known to lay on the floor & look up to see the bottom.:D

You know I used to be very closed minded about lots of things including Craftsman but with age I've mellowed out. You know Dale you don't have to get older to mellow out.;)

[Jim DeLaney]

Dale,
Your experiences with Craftsman tools pretty much parallels mine, except that my Radial Arm Saw was also junk that would not hold alignment.

I sold the table saw - a 1970's model, after years of trying, unsuccessfully, to keep it in alignment.

I've also had several hand-held power tools that I couldn't/can't get replacement ot repair parts for.

In virtually every case, when the tools needed replacement, I've gone shopping for other brands. I can speak highly of Porter-Cable, DeWalt, Fein, and Festool (not necessarily in that order), but not of Sears Craftsman.

All that said, tools do not limit the craftsperson - skill, or lack of it, does. I've made many good things using Craftsman tools. I just find it easier, less time-consuming, and generally less frustrating when using higher quality tools.



This is my last comment on this issue.I bought a Sears Craftsman saw about 6 yrs ago.At the time it was their top of the line saw.Total cost with tax was around $735.This saw has turned out to be a POS period.I will be the judge of that,as I own the saw.There is no way a Sears salesman or saleslady is going to dissassemble a saw for me to look at the underside.What I saw was the exact dupolicate of my saw ,table, adsjustment, and everything visible.Am I going to take another chance and buy another one from Sears?Not in this lifetime.I have bought lesser power tools from them and went back 2 or 3 yrs.later for a replacement part and am told that the tool is obsolete and we can no longer get parts for it.When I spend good money for a tool I expect it to last for many years,not just til Craftsman decides to change suppliers.I have in my shop a Craftsman drill press which is a good piece of equip.I also have a Cman radial arm saw which works perfectly good.Also and old 1950 lathe and jigsaw,purchased used which work very well.The radial arm saw is about 15 yrs.old also purchased used.So I do have some Cman stuff that I am OK with.I have posted that I hope everyone is happy with thier Cman hybrid saws,and I hope they are.But for me having got bitten once by Sears on the table saw they will not get another chance.:eek: :eek: :eek:

[scott spencer]

Holy cow Dale! You're correct that they're from Craftsman and sold at Sears :D. I'm pretty open about brandnames and individual machines, and not loyal to anything in particular, and I've bashed my fair share of Sears tools....when deserved. I try to list actual specific complaints so there's at least some logic to my disapproval. Your information is either incorrect, or their was an misplaced sign on an old model. Not sure how many different responses informing you of that it will take to convince you. For starters, the $999 model is the 22124 with the Biesemeyer fence, not the 22114...the 22114 lists at $679.99. The saws from 1997 to 2004 were made by Ryobi, prior to that Emerson, and as far as I know are very different than the three versions of the hybrid/cabinet saws made by Orion, which was started by a group of former Delta employees. Orion is rumored to make the Delta hybrids as well. The 3 "zip code" saws all have cabinet mounted trunnions unlike any prior Sears model or hybrid currently or previously available, they all have serpentine belts, they all have internally mounted motors, and they all have beefed up connecting rods... all features which none of the prior Sears models offered that I'm aware of. The fences and options vary between these three new ones.

It's interesting that you started a post to inform us of your negative opinion of a tool, and got most of the information wrong. You're entitled to your opinion of the company and the saw, but facts are facts, and yours appear to be erroneous. Give a specific gripe about the saw and give us something to discuss or debate about. Most owners are raving about these things, and I have yet to hear from an owner or user who isn't pleased overall... and some of us switched from fairly nice saws.

[oak barrett]

I bought a Sears Craftsman saw about 6 yrs ago.At the time it was their top of the line saw.Total cost with tax was around $735.This saw has turned out to be a POS period.


just curious what the model number is?

[Dale Rodabaugh]

315228510 model number

[George Summers]

I was going to jump in and say, but Scott beat me to it, that the new "Zip Code" saws by Sears are in fact new. I'm sure that Orion, the actual manufacturer, will be interested in knowing that they copied an old Sears design. Knowing Sears, I suspect that signage in the store has been screwed up by their normally incompatent floor personnel. Check out Craftsman's website for the new 'Orion' saws and see if the pictures match what you saw labeled in the store (or your old saw).

George

[Dale Rodabaugh]

I said I was not going to post anything more on this subject,well I did some more checking so I do have some more to add.I have been told here that I dont know what I am talking about,that I dont have my facts straight,etc.Everything except someone coming out and calling me a liar.And i am sure some of you are thinking that.I recieved so much negative feedback on my comments about the Craftsman Cabinet saw yeah the model is 22124,that I thought perhaps I looked at something different the other day.So I just made a special trip over to Sears to look at the saw again.Got down beside it,and opened the door to have a look and guess what?Just as I suspected the trunions are mounted to the table and not the cabinet.The only difference between it and the saw I have now is that the motor is also hung under the table.The table,trunions.arbor,etc. are the same as my POS saw.The cabinet is nothing more than a base for the saw to sit on.If this is what Orion calls a new saw they are full of crap.I knew the other day just by looking at the top of it what I was going to find.I know a lot of you guys have bought these saws and seem to think they are something special.I really hope you have good luck with them,but I have a feeling that a couple of years down the road when you are tuning one of these up you are going to be very dissapointed.I stand by what I have posted previously I will not buy another POS Craftsman.:eek: :( :cool: :rolleyes:

[Matt Meiser]

Guess Sears has taken to outright false advertising.

From the Sears web site:
"Fully-enclosed, cabinet-style stand with a 1-3/4 hp, 120/240V internal mount motor. Heavy-duty, cast-iron, base-mounted trunnion system for maximum stability and easy adjustments. "

Link (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_SessionID=@@@@1548527032.1129684610@ @@@&BV_EngineID=ccjladdfmjkefhjcegecegjdghldghf.0&vertical=TOOL&pid=00922124000&bidsite=CRAFT)

Are the servers at "that other place" down or something?

[Lee DeRaud]

Guess Sears has taken to outright false advertising.

From the Sears web site:
"Fully-enclosed, cabinet-style stand with a 1-3/4 hp, 120/240V internal mount motor. Heavy-duty, cast-iron, base-mounted trunnion system for maximum stability and easy adjustments. "But why let facts get in the way of a good rant?

[scott spencer]

Are you getting shorter or is that hole you're digging just getting deeper? You're attempting to to spread an untruth amongst a small army of owners who've seen the trunnions of their 22104, 22114, and 22124 mounted to the cabinets...just like the claims from Sears, Orion, and any mag and normal person who's checked it out, they are cabinet mounted. You still got it wrong Dale, but I'm pleased with the progress you're making on the hole. :D Now I'm wondering if the fence is really a Biese?

Anyone care to post of pick of their 22124's trunnions so we can help the blind see and put an end to this nonsense?

[aurelio alarcon]

Here I go again. The saw is a good saw. Ask anyone who owns one. If you don't believe those who own it, that's your perogative. Furthermore, I might add, it is refreshing to hear from those who, in spite of all the Craftsman bashing, have the integrity to rate this saw for what it is ...a dern good saw! Could it be that the "bash wagon" has hit a pot hole in the road. And up from the dust came a decent tool and along with it decent people who are honest enough to get off the wagon on this one tool! The saw ROCKS! And so do you guys! To all of you who own this saw, I envy your purchase (I am saving up for mine).

[Fred Dorn]

315228510 model number

BTW 315 is Ryobi's code.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

It will do no good from what I can see. He's obviously not seen the new saw in person or he wouldn't have posted what he did. Sorry Dale...can't hang with ya on this one....you are incorrect if you think the new saws are anything like the old one you have....you are right about one thing...anything built for Craftsman by the owners of the 315 code is not a good buy.

[Dale Rodabaugh]

Thr facts are,the saw I inspected at the Sears store in Ashtabula,OH.has the trunions mounted under the table.There is not a damn thing mounted to the cabinet.The table just sits on top of the cabinet.dig a hole too deep,I dont think so.Evidently none of you guys have ever tuned up a table saw.Wait til these saws need the blade lined up to the miter grooves ands see what happens.Have fun with your POS saws,Im outa here.

[Robert Mayer]

I have the middle of the road hybrid saw with cast iron sides and the non-bies fence. I got it for just $535 with tax after using a coupon and getting it at a xmas sale. For the money its been a great saw. It has stayed in perfect alignment since I bought it.

I think many people on this board need to step back remember they do woodworking not machine buying. I have seen some people building nice stuff with an extremely low end ryobi saw. The machine doesnt make the woodworker. For $500 I didnt expect a cabinet saw with a bies fence but I did get the best saw I could afford.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I haven't seen one of the alleged saws in person, but I have seen many articles about them in the various woodworking magazines. It sounds like Dale may talking apples while the rest of you are talking oranges. Maybe Dale could take a picture of the model he's looking at and post it for us?

[Robert Mayer]

I haven't seen one of the alleged saws in person, but I have seen many articles about them in the various woodworking magazines. It sounds like Dale may talking apples while the rest of you are talking oranges. Maybe Dale could take a picture of the model he's looking at and post it for us?

The one he has is an older one, i think he mentioned it was like 6 years old. The orion built saw is only about a year or two old.

This is the one i bought for $535:
http://content.sears.com/data/product_images/009/22114/00922114000-dlv.jpg

[Bart Leetch]

The first shot shows the trunnion. If you were to reach in & feel around you would find out that you could put your finger between the bottom of the table top & on top of the head of the bolt that goes down through the trunnion bolting it to the top of the cabinet.

Also you'll notice that the closest place where the trunnion could be bolted other than where trunnion is bolted to the cabinet would be where the old style contractors saw is bolted to the top right next to the boss where the blade carriage hangs & slides to tilt, you'll please notice there is no bolt there. The trunnion hangs free suspended from the cabinet.

Yes indeed the trunnion is mounted to the cabinet & not to the bottom of the table.

If the trunnion was bolted to the bottom of the table there would be no reason for the cast iron trunnion to run all the way over to the side of the cabinet & have a bolt going down through it & through the cabinet top flange.. You'll notice there is a bolt in front of the trunnion bolt & nut going up through the cabinet flange bolting the top to the cabinet.

NO THESE SAWS ARE NOT LIKE YOUR OLD C-MAN SAW.
Though the trunnions are not as heavy as a full blown cabinet saw they are quite a bit heavier than you old C-Man saw.

The second shot shows the saw & you'll notice it is not the full cabinet style model but the next step down BUT the mechanical parts are the same. My store didn't have the full cabinet model.

[Scott Donley]

Bart, I know you really used Photoshop to make it look that way :)
By the way, I did't know Whidbey Island was big enough for their own Sears store !

[Bart Leetch]

Oak Harbor now has a Home Depot a Wal Mart a K Mart Shirwin Williams is moving in right now & a Big 5 Sporting Goods, AppleBee's & 5 Auto parts stores & an Ace store.

We are getting more P3 squadrons on the Navy base as well as their converting over in the next few years from the EA6B aircraft to the Radar Jamming F18.

Its boom town USA.

[Lee DeRaud]

By the way, I did't know Whidbey Island was big enough for their own Sears store !The town motto is, "Cheer up, you could be on Adak!"
(related to me years ago by a Rockwell field engineer who worked there)

[scott spencer]

[QUOTE=Bart Leetch]The first shot shows the trunnion. ...Yes indeed the trunnion is mounted to the cabinet & not to the bottom of the table...

NO THESE SAWS ARE NOT LIKE YOUR OLD C-MAN SAW.
Though the trunnions are not as heavy as a full blown cabinet saw they are quite a bit heavier than you old C-Man saw.

...snip. QUOTE] Bart - Thanks for taking the time to post a pic and put this to rest. The wider trunnions are at least part of the reason the saws are so heavy. (319#, 385#, 425# respectively). Now go treat yourself to a nice porterhouse at Applebee's! :D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Glad we got some pics...I have seen one in person a t a friend's house so I knew they were NOTHING like the old Ryobi made saws.

[oak barrett]

came across this picture on craftsman website..

cant argue with that...


http://www.searsmedia.com/gallery/presskits/images/stationary/22124_Cutaway_of_motor.jpg

[Dan Bussiere]

I quit coming here a couple of years ago because of the tool bashing that was starting to take place. I haven't been here in almost two years and I see it wasn't long enough yet. Please guys and gals, share your love for woodworking not your poor judgement on bashing others tools. What a shame!

[Lee DeRaud]

I quit coming here a couple of years ago because of the tool bashing that was starting to take place. I haven't been here in almost two years and I see it wasn't long enough yet. Please guys and gals, share your love for woodworking not your poor judgement on bashing others tools. What a shame!Sure, but without all these all these dead horses to flog, where would we get our glue?

Boxers or briefs? Ginger or MaryAnn? Festool or EZSmart? Normite or Neander?
The great religious controversies of our time.:cool:

(Sorry...it's 8AM, my back is killing me, and the ibuprofen is taking bloody forever to kick in.)

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I quit coming here a couple of years ago because of the tool bashing that was starting to take place. I haven't been here in almost two years and I see it wasn't long enough yet. Please guys and gals, share your love for woodworking not your poor judgement on bashing others tools. What a shame!

Dan, you're a hard man to please.:) What woodworking sites do you frequent? I haven't seen another woodworking site where disagreements are handled in the manner they are here. No name calling, no foul language no personal attacks. When a thread gets out of hand (and they do on occasion) they are pulled by the moderator. Come on back and enjoy the threads that appeal to you and don't read the ones that you don't care for.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Sure, but without all these all these dead horses to flog, where would we get our glue?

Boxers or briefs? Ginger or MaryAnn? Festool or EZSmart? Normite or Neander?
The great religious controversies of our time.:cool:

(Sorry...it's 8AM, my back is killing me, and the ibuprofen is taking bloody forever to kick in.)

Mary Ann of course.

[Andy Hoyt]

Hands down --- Mary Ann

[Lee DeRaud]

Hands down --- Mary Ann
Hands up --- Ginger.

Oh...that's not what you meant? Never mind...

[aurelio alarcon]

Mary Ann...By Far...

[Scott Donley]

All I know is when I am ready for a "REAL" women it will be a Mary Ann, not one of those trashy Ginger types. :)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I dont' know......Mary Ann....Ginger.......tough decision!

[Brian Austin]

All I know is when I am ready for a "REAL" women it will be a Mary Ann, not one of those trashy Ginger types. :)
Date Ginger but marry Mary Ann. ;)

[Dan Bussiere]

Dan, you're a hard man to please.:) What woodworking sites do you frequent? I haven't seen another woodworking site where disagreements are handled in the manner they are here. No name calling, no foul language no personal attacks. When a thread gets out of hand (and they do on occasion) they are pulled by the moderator. Come on back and enjoy the threads that appeal to you and don't read the ones that you don't care for.

Dennis,
First of all it's not about pleasing me! I don't appreciate the inference that it was. Second, I don't frequent any other sites for that very reason. Third, I thought I WAS looking at a thread about an opinion of a tool, not a bashing of Craftsman or any other BRAND. Talk, both negative and positive about a particular tool is what this forum was about. I was here when it began and it was a nice polite place to post and read. Soon, it became the same, although to a lesser degree, as the other un-named forums. Allot of bickering over mine is better than yours. Even worse when it gets to saying yours is worthless (ie a POS) even if I don't have one any better. I have met quite a few of the regulars here at a summer picnic and I enjoyed each and every conversation. No one there was bashing anyone's tools or choice of tools to their face so why do it here? Why is because a certain element of this forum can get away with it when they wouldn't dare to someone's face. But, I have the solution! I will change the channel!

Bye! Maybe next time it will be different.

My apologies to the good folks here who want to talk about woodworking.

[Chuck Hayes]

Absolutely no doubt, JEANNIE! (I dream of Jeannie).

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Chances are the next time you check in things will be the exact same. This is why most of us like the forum. As threads like this go, I have only seen three since I joined and none of them have irked me bad enough to leave. I guess it boils down to whether you think the forum is good enough for you.

Personally I like the banter on threads like this...shows everyone involved is a real human with flaws like WE ALL HAVE.

[Lars Thomas]

I agree with Kelly. I'm not sure that I even would consider this thread a Craftsman bash. Certainly the OP was looking to bash, but most of the responders seemed to be sticking up for Craftsman by evidencing the trunnion orientation - even going so far as to take pixs.

Even so, this thread is one of the few that strayed left-of-center. Dan, I feel there is tons to learn from the people on this site. While the site may not be perfect, I feel the benefits far out-weigh the negatives. I'd encourage you to stick around. Lars

[Scott Donley]

I agree with Kelly. I'm not sure that I even would consider this thread a Craftsman bash. Certainly the OP was looking to bash, but most of the responders seemed to be sticking up for Craftsman by evidencing the trunnion orientation - even going so far as to take pixs.

Even so, this thread is one of the few that strayed left-of-center. Dan, I feel there is tons to learn from the people on this site. While the site may not be perfect, I feel the benefits far out-weigh the negatives. I'd encourage you to stick around. LarsAnd I agree with Lars, you really only had one person that was bashing (ie pos) and most other posts were to explain bashing is not needed here and to show that the bashing was also invald. To me, thats not a bad thing. Look at any other post on this forum and you will find no bashing. I think this thread was anything but bashing, it went a long way to show Craftsman in a positive light.
Don't judge the whole forum because of one person.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Yep anyone can join but those that want to just out and out bash will have a lot of members after them :) That is the reason this site is great, it is self moderating and the members, let alone the mods won't stand out and out bashing.

Now if they wanted to say I bought the zip code saw and it didn't perform because of x, x, x and x. Then that would be a very valid post, but to just say, this tool is a POS and anything from them is too, well that is for other forums :)

[Brian Austin]

But, I have the solution! I will change the channel!
Or just don't read the thread. Seems fairly easy to ignore something that you have no interest in.

Kind of like saying you don't want to visit Arizona because you don't like the desert in the summertime. That ignores the other climates in AZ, not to mention the different seasons. You miss a lot for not liking such a little thing.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Dan, I don't know why you are offended by my comments. You are the one who came into our "house" and complained about our behavior. This is one of the most civil, respectful, and pleasant places on the web, woodworking oriented or not. My comments were made to inject some humor into the situation (notice the smiley face?) and invite you to stay with us. I'd say if we're (and after all it is the members that make the web site) not your cup of tea, you are doing the right thing by leaving because your next experience will probably be exactly like your last. No hard feelings, come back any time.

[Vaughn McMillan]

I dont' know......Mary Ann....Ginger.......tough decision!
Mary Ann, even though Ginger has more beefy trunions. :cool:

- Vaughn

[Lee DeRaud]

Mary Ann, even though Ginger has more beefy trunions. :cool:There's a "right-tilt, left-tilt" joke hiding in here somewhere...

[Scott Donley]

Mary Ann, even though Ginger has more beefy trunions. :cool:

- VaughnWon't work Vaughn, I think she's shorter than you, Ginger is the tall one :)

[Andy Hoyt]

Mary Ann, even though Ginger has more beefy trunions. :cool:

- Vaughn
Yeah, but Mary Ann's infeed table is to die for. And don't get me started on the outfeed ....:eek:

[aurelio alarcon]

This bashing was an anomoly. Everyone here is usually very nice in what they have to say. This is the best woodworking site bar none!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a Craftsman fan and still feel welcomed! There is just so much to learn here and the people are generally very helpful. I can always get an answer from someone. It has been so helpful to me that I often find myself quoting someone from this site. This site DOES ROCK!