The best way to set a hand plane.

[Scott Archi]

Hi guys I frequently browse the forum. Mostly for sharpening stone threads since I am a straight razor user I had a problem buying thousands of dollars worth of stones... kept my favourites and sold the rest and now I want to make some boxes for them. I read Paul Seller's article about making a box and thought it seemed simple enough.

So I picked up a couple old pieces of hard wood and borrowed a few planes. 1 block plane and another bench plane. I borrowed these from my uncle. They are complete crap but I don't have the money for a new one. Anyways they are plastic handled metal ones from china. The base (sole?) of the plane wasn't flat so I ran it on my DMT until it was. Took down the high spots. I then turned my attention to the blade (iron?). Forgive me I know very little. I flattened the back 1" from the edge of the bevel back. I didn't bother flattening the whole blade as it was terribly out of flat. I tried though but my elbow is hurtin'. That should be enough anyways I think right?

I proceeded to flip the blade around and take out the machine marks from the factory on the bevel. I did this with a DMT C. Proceeded to norton fine India. Worked the bevel. Flipped it over and worked the back and be then alternated strokes for a few passes. Stropped on some green paste and then clean leather and the blade is sharp now. Quite a process actually just to flatten the blade...

Here is what I am wondering... how far out of the bottom of the plane should I set the blade? I'm trying to plane wood that is already relatively flat. It's finished too, I am mostly trying to take that off and make it flatter if possible. I might be chasing my tail but I'm having one hell of a time trying to get the plane to take material off. Trying to find a medium between biting into the wood, leaving me with gouges and doing nothing.

I can add pictures if it will help.


Please simplify any woodworking terms that I do not know, so I can understand better.

-Scott

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Start with a relatively flat piece of scrap. Retract the iron until it is not cutting at all. Advance it a little bit (1/2 turn to a turn on the adjuster). Slide it across the scrap. Keep doing that until the blade just starts to catch. Flip the plane upside down and site down the sole. You are looking to see if the blade is relatively even or if it is skewed so it is cutting on one side more than the other. Use the lateral adjustment to get it as close to even as you can. Take a small piece of scrap, and holding the plane upside down, use the corner of the scrap to check and see if the blade is in fact cutting evenly (by taking a small shaving on each side and comparing them in thickness, width, etc.). Make small adjustments with the lateral adjustment until you are relatively happy. Try it on your big piece of scrap. See if it cuts smoothly.

If it is too hard to push and leaves a bad surface, retract the blade a little (don't touch the lateral adjustment now), and go through the process of advancing it a little, and trying it until it is taking a decent shaving. It is a process of trial and error. Too deep and it won't cut well. Set too fine, and it can take a long time to get the defects you are trying to correct out of the stock.

Remember to get those glorious full length transparent shavings you see in videos you need both a properly set up plane and a board that is already almost perfectly flat. If you have a .001 shaving that is full length and width, you pretty much by definition must have a board that is flat to at least .001 for the length of the plane sole.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[Scott Archi]

Once I set this I will not have to again?

Should I be aiming for this 0.001" shaving?

[Phil Mueller]

Scott, when I first started using a hand plane, I had the same frustrations. I came to learn that a thin set blade may not take much off at all at first. I had to understand that it was just taking the peaks of high spots off at first. After a dozen strokes or so, it began taking more and more. So, if at first it doesn't seem to be working, give it a dozen strokes. If it's still not taking much of a shaving, advance the iron slightly. You can set the iron deeper at first, if needed, then retract as you get the board flatter. Keep in mind you aren't going to get a full width/full length shaving until the board is nearly flat.
Good luck, and have fun.

[John C Cox]

Oh... You will always be fiddling with it... That's the nature of things like this. ;) ;)

A well set plane is a thing of wonder and beauty. Many woods will plane to a surface like greased glass.

Here's the thing.... For stock removal - you want a deeper cut.. You want a nice thick shaving... A little thinner than what takes a lot of effort. For smoothing - you want a fine cut... Barely take a whisper.

Then.. Different woods and different grains take different tool pressures to cut. And that means some will need a little more blade - some will need less. End grain won't let you cut as deep as long grain for example.

Oh... And just in case you wonder why anyone would buy a $400 block plane... You will soon find out ;) ;).

[lowell holmes]

Scott,

Maybe you could get a 1x4 piece of white pine about 3' long and start making shavings. Make thick shavings, thin shavings and then end up with translucent shavings. I sometimes make translucent shavings because I can. In other words, experiment with the plane until you understand what you can do with it. I bet your issues will go away. :)

[lowell holmes]

Oh... You will always be fiddling with it... That's the nature of things like this. ;) ;)



Oh... And just in case you wonder why anyone would buy a $400 block plane... You will soon find out ;) ;).

John, would you care to elaborate in the sentence above?:rolleyes:

[Jim Koepke]

Once I set this I will not have to again?

Should I be aiming for this 0.001" shaving?

Howdy Scott and Welcome to the Creek.

There have been a few threads on making boxes for stones you may find interesting:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?244466-Oil-stone-box

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?248858-Sharpening-stone-box

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?249551-Respect-to-J-Smith-s-work

Every time you sharpen a blade you will need to reset the blade adjustments.

One of the hidden treasures of SMC is the Neanderthal wisdom FAQs:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

It contains an old post of mine to help anyone getting a start with hand planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?148076-Getting-Started-With-Hand-Planes

Thin shavings can be mesmerizing, but are mostly useful to determine how sharp a blade is or for setting the lateral adjustment. They are also useful for a few final passes when smoothing a piece to help avoid tear out.


Here is what I am wondering... how far out of the bottom of the plane should I set the blade? I'm trying to plane wood that is already relatively flat. It's finished too, I am mostly trying to take that off and make it flatter if possible. I might be chasing my tail but I'm having one hell of a time trying to get the plane to take material off. Trying to find a medium between biting into the wood, leaving me with gouges and doing nothing.

This sounds like the sole of your plane may be bowed from front to back (heel to toe). A plane like this will not cut until the blade is set for a deep cut. Then the blade will dig in trying pull the sole flat. This will cause a gouge as soon as the plane's tension pulls the blade back out of the work piece.

There could also be other problems with a poor edge on the blade, the chip breaker not mating flat across the blade, a poor frog to base attachment and a few other problems common to inexpensive planes. These are often called "objects that look like a plane."

I have a plane that looks like it lost in a knife fight that turned into a gun fight before it was run over by a truck. It isn't pretty, but it can do this:

355999

That is about 1/4 of an 0.001" shaving. According to the micrometer it is between 0.0002" and 0.0003". All that means is the blade is sharp, the blade is held solid, well seated on the frog, shavings are not catching under the chip breaker and the sole is flat enough to not have a problem with flexing. The plane can also take controlled shavings much thicker than this. It wouldn't be a very good plane if it could only take tissue thin shavings.

Here is another old thread of mine from the Neanderthal wisdom FAQs:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

It might be helpful in trying to get your plane working a bit better.

Good luck and let us know how things come along.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Amazing, when my reply was started there was only one response to the original post.

BTW, all the above is good and relevant information.

jtk

[Scott Archi]

Thanks everyone. I will take a look at all the posted links and thoroughly read them. I will post a picture of the plane it will help with diagnosis... maybe.

Learning lots I think it will be easier to set the blade on soft wood than the very hard wood I'm trying with now. I will source a soft piece of pine.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Once I set this I will not have to again?

Should I be aiming for this 0.001" shaving?

Once it is set, you can use it until it is dull. Then you have to sharpen, and will have to go through the adjustment process again.

I have never found much use for the .001 shaving. It takes a lot of skill to have a plane sharpened and adjusted to the point it can take a shaving that fine. But in terms of getting a board flat and square, it may be helpful to keep in mind that a .001 shaving will take 125 strokes to eliminate a 1/8 inch of twist, wind, or other defect. Thicker shavings make that work go quicker.

[Sergey Petrov]

I am with Mr. Kopke with regard to a potential hollow in your plane sole. Also, make sure your blade rests well on the frog. If it doesn't, it will chatter and gouge once you give it enough depth to engage the wood.

[John C Cox]

John, would you care to elaborate in the sentence above?:rolleyes:

Sure....
you have to adjust the planes for the wood you are cutting, the size shavings, the wear and the sharpness of the iron. And so it's not like you just set it once and forget it. Even with the same plane on the same work - you may need to knock down a high spot, so you set it deeper, then back off to smooth out the wood once you get it there.

The second bit about the $400 block plane... So the joy of a good plane isn't just that it comes flattened and well squared up.... That's certainly nice and it saves you a lot of time.... But its other things as well - like good smooth adjustment mechanisms that aren't hitchy for depth and lateral. A mouth that adjusts properly. A nicely bedded thicker iron that doesn't chatter like the thin ones do. A properly hardened iron made of good steel, A lever cap that goes on right and a blade tightener that works smoothly.

Unfortunately - there's just no margin in the price of a $20 plane to get these things and to make any adjustments if they are needed. And so you get what you get. A plane that's probably useful for some limited work... But you are going to spend hours and hours and hours on sorting it out to get it there.

[Stewie Simpson]

Unfortunately - there's just no margin in the price of a $20 plane to get these things and to make any adjustments if they are needed. And so you get what you get. A plane that's probably useful for some limited work... But you are going to spend hours and hours and hours on sorting it out to get it there.

$400.00 for a new Block Plane. That's a major turnaround John from posting the merits of hardening old chisels blades.

[John C Cox]

Why don't you like my chisels? I thought you gents from down under were all about rough and ready... ;) There's Mr. Right and there's Mr. Right Now... The cheap rehardened chisels are the bird in the hand while I sort out securing the ones in the bush. ;). I already had my go at old rust and that was it's own dead end rat hole..

The best block plane I currently own is the Woodriver low angle. It's world's better than the Stanley planes I have - not only for squareness, but for a decent iron and pretty good adjustment. I am seriously looking at the Lie Nielsen, Veritas, and Clifton offerings. I use my block planes a lot... And for me - it's worth it.

But - when you just need to get something going for the one job - the plane in your hand beats the one in the store... Get the iron good and sharp and go at it.

[steven c newman]

Never seen planes that take "hours and hours, and hours ..." to set up right. Maybe it is the way someone else tries to do this simple task?

I use the irons that came with those vintage Stanleys, Sargents, and Millers Falls, and only ONCE have I had to toss out an iron. Late 60s Craftsman #4 plane. Iron was sheet metal shaped like an iron. Replacement? NOT some magical THICK cure all chatter cutter, but the one that you used to buy at Home Depot. Buck Brothers 2" wide,$3 replacement iron.

Chatter? Once any plane has been tuned and set up correctly, there is none. Never seen it in any of the Millers Falls planes I USE right now. Too many think they have to slide the frog forward, to "Close up the mouth", only to find the plane suddenly chatters like some Old Gossip. There is now an empty space there, at the spot where the iron leaves the frog's face.....and nothing to support the iron. Don't even think a close set chipbreaker could help, as any chatter is from the edge of the iron vibrating backwards. Nothing back there to stop it. " I upgrade with a thicker iron..." Means to me that they are relying on a "crutch", instead of setting the plane up as it was designed to be.

Hold the plane so you can look down the sole from toe to heel. Shine a light along the sole. Adjust the iron's depth until you BARELY see a black line appear at the mouth's opening. It should be an even thickness line. Thicker on one corner? lateral lever to adjust until the line is the same across the width. Rub the sole with a plain wax candle...just squiggle lines. Try the cut, and the adjust a bit as needed. You are looking at the quality of the shavings, NOT how paper thin they are. Super thin shavings mean you will lose time, you merely need a consistent width and thickness that will get a job done. ( sometimes, I will use a #6 to flatten a panel after a glue up. When I get long ribbons coming up out of the plane, I am done)

Weight of the plane needs to be heavy? Hey, YOU are the one that has to push, pick up, and push the plane all day long. Makes for a good workout for the arms and shoulders, nothing else. I prefer mine a bit on the light side, as I can move them around better, and my shoulders don't ache that night. The operator determines how much downward force is needed.....would you allow some dumb iron object to do that for you?

" Ready to go to work, right out of the box.." True, but....who will MAINTAIN it that way? Will you then send it back to be tuned back up, or just buy another "Ready to use..." plane?

If you ever look through some of my "Blogs" on how I build things, you will see a lot of those old "dead end rat hole" planes being put to work. Most are over 60 years old. All but one still has the origanl iron in them. Bench planes AND block planes. Not only do I use them, I also maintain them as needed. That #6 I was talking about? It is a type 10, made before WW1 even began. Same iron is still in use that it was made with.

"I don't have the time to..." Then go out and buy a machine to do the work. If you don't have the time to take care of these planes, find either the time to do it, or find something else to do with the time.....knitting?

[Bill McDermott]

Scott, Regarding the question about how to set the blade depth of cut / protrusion....
If you put a thin scrap, like 1/4" in your vise (or hand) and run the right hand edge of the blade over it until you get it dialed in to a nice thickness, then you can do the same thing on the left hand side edge of the blade. Often, they will be very different. Adjust up and down and side to side until you get both edges taking nice thin shavings of a narrow strip of wood. Then have a go at a full width cut. Bill

[Barney Markunas]

To the OP, at the risk of stating the obvious, check to see if you are planing the "right" direction. With some planes, plane operators, and woods it won't matter much but in most instances you will get a much nicer finish planing "with the grain" and you will be likely to get tear out if you go the other way. Think about petting a dog's back. Stroke it one direction and it is smooth sailing but head the other way, not so much. You may find yourself fighting a substandard plane but a really sharp blade and a lighter cut will cure a lot of sins.