Do I need a riving knife in a track saw?

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi guys,
I didnt want to hijack the other thread on track saws that is under discussion...

I was sold on the Makita track saw. Then someone commented in the other thread that the Dewalt has a riving knife. I expect to use this track saw to break down sheet goods, but I may occasionally use it to rip cut solid lumber. Do you folks find that a riving knife is really needed on a track saw?

Thank you!
Fred

[Rick Potter]

I have a DeWalt, and I don't think I would be concerned with it jumping the track if the wood pinched, but with solid wood the riving knife might keep it from pinching the blade and stalling out. Another way to avoid pinching on a high tension board would be to shove a shim or two in the kerf as you go. I have had to do this on my TS lately, as I have run into a batch of wood with enough tension that it would pinch on the riving knife so hard I could not push the wood through.

Here is where I mention that I have never ripped lumber with my track saw, just used it on sheet goods. Zero real experience.

[Gregory Carles]

Riving knife- yes, in any and all saws you can get one on.

[Van Huskey]

If one is 100% sheet goods it is likely a non-issue, for ripping hardwood I would prefer to have it. It is interesting to note the Mafell has no riving knife and is generally considered a better saw then the Festool but it wouldn't be my choice for ripping hardwood.

[Ole Anderson]

I have the Grizz version, and the riving knife gets in the way during a plunge cut, like a sink cut out. You can't plunge straight down, you need to let the saw do the work, otherwise you will push the blade against the riving knife and get sparks. I don't see why you would want a riving knife on any saw where the blade is buried. Otherwise, why not for circular saws? Table saws, of course.

[Van Huskey]

I have the Grizz version, and the riving knife gets in the way during a plunge cut, like a sink cut out. You can't plunge straight down, you need to let the saw do the work, otherwise you will push the blade against the riving knife and get sparks. I don't see why you would want a riving knife on any saw where the blade is buried. Otherwise, why not for circular saws? Table saws, of course.

With the Festool you can plunge straight down no issues. It has indexing makes on the side of the housing that show you the limits of the blade so you just like the back mark for the cutout to the back index mark on the saw and cut until the front index mark on the saw meets the line for the line for the other end of the cut, you can also use the limit stops on the rail so you don't have to look when you cut. The Dewalt works in the same manner, I just can remember if they included the index marks on the housing.

The riving knife is more of less useless for sheet goods but can be a serious safety precaution in solid wood just like on the table saw, assuming it is properly engineered.

[Ben Rivel]

Need? Well I guess maybe not. I sure wouldnt want to be without one. Just in case kinda thing.

[Jim Dwight]

I agree with the other comments and would also note the DeWalt also has an additional roller to prevent the saw going backward on the track. That is another safety feature I believe the Makita lacks. The Makita depth of cut is also 1/16 greater if I remember right. And the feature to keep the saw on the track when you are cutting at an angle seems like a good idea. I truly don't think either is a bad choice. I've done plunge cuts with my DeWalt and the riving knife did not get in the way. The blade projects below the riving knife so you cut a space for it as you plunge. Both the Makita and DeWalt have router attachments (as does the Festool) which I find handy on my DeWalt.

[johnny means]

Really, what would happen without a riving knife?

[Van Huskey]

Really, what would happen without a riving knife?

If the wood pinches the blade it will throw the back of the saw up.

[Martin Wasner]

Riving knife- yes, in any and all saws you can get one on.

?????

My panel saw came with one. It came off in the first day of operation. It serves zero purpose in that scenario.


As far as in a hand held circular saw, plunge cuts would be tricky, unless I'm missing something.

[Rich Engelhardt]

My Festool TS55EQ has one.
The circular saw & shop made guide it replaced didn't have one.
The relief from the aggravation ( and ruined pieces of uber-expensive hardwood plywood) has been well worth the increase in cost.

[Peter Quinn]

For saw in track on sheet goods, IMO riving knife is completely non essential and verging on useless appendage. I have used every major brand, own the makita, have used it in 2" thick counter slabs and sink plunges, not a problem. I like the festool with the spring loaded riving knife but not for the extra hundreds of dollars. For freehand rips in hardwood...get another saw! I'm not pushing my $$$ track saw into that scenario anyway. I've taken to using a cordless skill saw, most of them have torque limiters so if they get stuck they stop, not kick back in your face like a corded electric. I've broken down 6/4 jatoba with my cordless with ease, the would have been frankly frightening with a corded saw. I like a riving knife on every scenario possible where the connection between wood an saw is not fixed, like table saw, and I like them on the panel saw too, but a track guided saw does not suffer from that problem.
If you do plunge cuts a more useful item is the travel limiters that go on the track as a starting point, because riving knife or not, if you turn that plunge cut into climb cut, which is real easy to do, that saw comes back to great you...DAMHIK!

[Justin Ludwig]

?????

My panel saw came with one. It came off in the first day of operation. It serves zero purpose in that scenario.


As far as in a hand held circular saw, plunge cuts would be tricky, unless I'm missing something.
Festool's track saws have a spring loaded riving knife. I didn't know that until a few weeks ago when I needed to make a plunge cut, went to remove it, then noticed it's spring loaded. Harumph! Saved me a few minutes of tool work.

i don't know about other brands.

I left the riving knife on my panel saw - only for those long rips to keep the material from falling on the blade. I can easily loosen and slide it back if it's in the way.


Peter, where the hell have you been?

[Jay Jolliffe]

I must have the older Festool saw. Mine is not spring loaded & it's a real pain to do a plunge cut in plywood..

[Peter Quinn]

Peter, where the hell have you been?

Took a hiatus to focus on work and family balance!

[Peter Quinn]

I must have the older Festool saw. Mine is not spring loaded & it's a real pain to do a plunge cut in plywood..

Funny story, the one at work IS spring loaded, I watched a guy who had use an older one repeatedly take the knife in and out for plunge cuts, very frustrating...then one day he watched me do a plunge with the knife in....I never said anything, just though he enjoyed taking the knife out?

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks everyone! There's a lot of good insight for me here.

What I'm trying to do is choose between the Makita and the Dewalt and I thought the riving knife might be a good tie breaker. The fact is, I have a Makita CMS and I just love that saw. And based on everything I read and hear, the Makita track saw is just as nice a tool. So I'm inclined to buy the Makita.

But while I expect to use it mostly on sheet goods, I want the flexibility to use it anywhere else it makes sense. So I've got some thinkin' to do...

Either one is going to be a huge step up from my Dad's old Sears circular saw and a home made guide!

Thanks again,
Fred

[Justin Ludwig]

Funny story, the one at work IS spring loaded, I watched a guy who had use an older one repeatedly take the knife in and out for plunge cuts, very frustrating...then one day he watched me do a plunge with the knife in....I never said anything, just though he enjoyed taking the knife out?

Reminds me of a time when I was a green horn and installing insulation batting in a vaulted roof. I was smashing the bats all the way up to the roof in between trusses. Two guys below watching me were doing the trim work had about 60 yrs accumulated experience and never said anything. I had about 500SF installed when the contractor got back. I was covered in fiberglass. He explained my error and then explained I had to remove and reinstall correctly. I look over at the trim guys and they are laughing. "Why the *&$% didn't you guys say anything?" "Well, we thought you knew what you were doing."

[Martin Wasner]

I left the riving knife on my panel saw - only for those long rips to keep the material from falling on the blade. I can easily loosen and slide it back if it's in the way.

Make a couple of shims out of something hard and wax them up. Slide one in the kerf towards the beginning of the cut, and push another one in just before the blade clears the material. The riving knife is narrower than the blade, so no matter what you are going to be pinching material in the end if that's all you're relying on.

[Warren Wilson]

I was working with apprentices (with our local college, developing resources) and used this video to impress upon them the need for safety. It's about circular saws, but the point is clear -- if rather graphic.

https://www.worksafebc.com/en/resources/health-safety/videos/circular-saw-kickback?lang=en

[Van Huskey]

Forgot to mention when the riving knives and circular saws came up that Festools HK saws have what I think is an ingenious riving knife built into the blade guard.

355859

[Justin Ludwig]

Make a couple of shims out of something hard and wax them up. Slide one in the kerf towards the beginning of the cut, and push another one in just before the blade clears the material. The riving knife is narrower than the blade, so no matter what you are going to be pinching material in the end if that's all you're relying on.

I do use shims. I just leave it on anyway cause it doesn't bother me. It has a quick release where I can loosen, slide it up, and tighten back in a matter of seconds if I need it outta the way (cutting solid surface material).

[Joe Calhoon]

Funny story, the one at work IS spring loaded, I watched a guy who had use an older one repeatedly take the knife in and out for plunge cuts, very frustrating...then one day he watched me do a plunge with the knife in....I never said anything, just though he enjoyed taking the knife out?
Peter,
I read this and thought damm, I been doing this with my Festo when I need to plunge. I feel better now after looking at it. Mine is a old one and appears to be fixed...
Mafell has some clever knives on their plunge saws. They have one that is retracted when you plunge then drops when the saw starts moving forward a little bit.

[Martin Wasner]

I do use shims. I just leave it on anyway cause it doesn't bother me. It has a quick release where I can loosen, slide it up, and tighten back in a matter of seconds if I need it outta the way (cutting solid surface material).

I couldn't afford the scoring attachment for mine when I bought it. So when cross cutting, I did a shallow climb cut to score the material. The riving knife was in the way of that. I don't think I ever tried plunge cutting before taking it off. It's retractable, but why add a step on a machine where the threat of kick back is more or less physically impossible on the vertical plane. On the horizontal it's a non issue, you're against a stop that isn't going anywhere, and a 5hp motor doesn't have enough oomf to do anything drastic when pushing a 700# gantry around.

[Howard Rosenberg]

That Work Safe BC video nearly made me ralph. I stopped it after it got stuck and hit the operator's leg. All the more reason to stand to one side out of the line of fire if you're working with a conventional circ saw.

[Frederick Skelly]

That Work Safe BC video nearly made me ralph. I stopped it after it got stuck and hit the operator's leg. All the more reason to stand to one side out of the line of fire if you're working with a conventional circ saw.

Yeah, that was really gruesome. A very useful reminder for me, for sure. Thanks for posting it Warren.

[Justin Ludwig]

I couldn't afford the scoring attachment for mine when I bought it. So when cross cutting, I did a shallow climb cut to score the material. The riving knife was in the way of that. I don't think I ever tried plunge cutting before taking it off. It's retractable, but why add a step on a machine where the threat of kick back is more or less physically impossible on the vertical plane. On the horizontal it's a non issue, you're against a stop that isn't going anywhere, and a 5hp motor doesn't have enough oomf to do anything drastic when pushing a 700# gantry around.

Order a Hi-ATB blade from Carbide Processors and you won't have to score - one pass, even on multiple sheets. My blade is "Saw Blade 254LV080" - a 10" 80T with 30mm bore - $150. The only time is get splintering is if I try to shave a piece of ply with just the kerf or less.

[mreza Salav]

I don't have a sliding saw and used my track saw (Festool 75) to rip cut tons of 9 feet 8/4 lumber (maple). The riving knife was indeed useful as sometimes the stress in the wood was strong enough to pintch the knife. For sheet goods it's not needed.
And yes, as others have said, no issue with plunge cuts.

[Michael Rector]

I personally have the Makita track saw, and was making some cuts in hardwood when I had it kick back at me. It chewed up the track pretty good and scared the crap out of me.

A riving knife would have been nice, but it also reminded me that I have other tools that would have been better to use.

I think tool selection is #1 and riving knife is #2.

[Sam Blasco]

Riving knife on the DeWalt is spring loaded, so works fine on non-thru cuts or plunge cuts seamlessly. What I really like about the DeWalt system, and the main reason I chose it, was the centered position of the track rail. You can cut from either side, not just from the one side like on the Festool or Makita. For me, it makes a huge difference when you have 90 sheets to deal with, like I recently did, you don't have to keep re-positioning the vac hose, vac position, etc. I have both Festool and DeWalt tracks now, but being able to cut left and right handed was a game changer on this big, interior paneling job. As for is a riving knife needed on plywood I will add my two cents. Plywood will, on occasion, release tension when being cut, enough that it will severely clamp on a blade sometimes. Maybe not with the force of a healthy piece of oak, but I would recommend a riving knife on any circular saw, hand held, table saw, you name it.

[Andrew Joiner]

For me, it makes a huge difference when you have 90 sheets to deal with, like I recently did, you don't have to keep re-positioning the vac hose, vac position, etc. I have both Festool and DeWalt tracks now, but being able to cut left and right handed was a game changer on this big, interior paneling job.

Sam,
Don't you have a slider? Why not use it to cut plywood?

[Frederick Skelly]

So I went back and forth 3 times : "Yeah, the riving knife might help out some day - buy the Dewalt." Then, "Geez, I like Makita tools a lot and theirs looks a tad more functional." Back to "Get that riving knife, just in case." (Warren's video below just kept bothering me.)

On the Makita, I liked the feature that locks it on the track for bevel cuts - the Dewalt doesnt have it and it looked perhaps unsafe to hold the saw on the track. Also was concerned because the Dewalt has a different plunge mechanism that I didnt know if I could live with. But about 1 in 20 times (5%) there are reports of a bad track or bad base on the Makita and I didnt come across any examples of that with the Dewalt. (I hate going back and forth with a vendor to get a good part.) Then, I saw 2 cases where guys had kickback issues with the Makita. Again, very small percentage and could be user errors too. But none surfaced on the Dewalt (it has a lock).

Felt like a yo-yo (or a dithering fool). So I decided this was one of those times when I just had to put my hands on the tool. I don't always feel the need to do that if I've done my homework. But this was a dead tie. I couldn't find anyone locally with the Makita in stock. But I did find a guy with the Dewalt. I called him and told him all this and asked if he'd unbox one and let me look it over and decide. I assured him that if I chose to buy the Dewalt, Id buy it from him right then and there. He was glad to do it.

I looked at all the things that were bugging me with the Dewalt, and decided that none of them were going to be a problem for me. The man was asking $40 more than online, but I felt like he provided me a valuable service, and it was worth paying a little more to get that service.

Edit: For me, the lesson learned is, when you aren't sure, GO PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE TOOL.

So thanks for all your help and advice folks!

Happy Easter!
Fred



I was working with apprentices (with our local college, developing resources) and used this video to impress upon them the need for safety. It's about circular saws, but the point is clear -- if rather graphic.

https://www.worksafebc.com/en/resources/health-safety/videos/circular-saw-kickback?lang=en

[Rick Potter]

OH NO!

You got the DeWalt??:eek: Let me tell you about all the problems I have with mine.


None.

So, don't worry, be happy.

[Frederick Skelly]

OH NO!

You got the DeWalt??:eek: Let me tell you about all the problems I have with mine.


None.

So, don't worry, be happy.

Now THAT'S funny! :)

[Jim Dwight]

I still like my DeWalt and think you will be happy with it. The only issue I've had is with changing blades. That is not a strong suit of the DeWalt since the process is complicated. I had to get out the instructions each time. But the last time I did it, the mechanism was jambed, I think from sawdust. And I forced it. So I broke a little piece off the aluminum casting. Fortunately, the saw works better without it. It is the piece you push down to change blades. Without it, there is nothing stopping you from moving to the blade change position. So in a way, it improved the saw. I use it to rip solid wood sometimes and have been happy with it doing that too.