New Adventure Hunting Wood

[Steve Mathews]

I'm excited! I just tried to contact some local tree service companies hoping to find wood to turn or at least an idea where to look. Because of our high desert climate in Northern Arizona I wasn't too optimistic. But to my surprise the first person contacted was very helpful and cooperative. He stated that often times trees such as walnut, oak and other hardwoods are cut down or trimmed from residential properties and he would be more than willing to make it available to me instead of cutting it up for firewood. Now I have to figure out what to do to prepare for this good fortune. So here are a few questions ...

What is the proper or courteous way to respond to this new found friend. I already mentioned to him that I have the equipment and resources to handle pieces of the tree up to 6', the length of my F250 bed and that I have a chain saw to cut it into the appropriate sized pieces. I also stated that I would try to make it as easy on him as possible and that I would certainly compensate him for his efforts. So, first of all what is the appropriate compensation for this type of thing? In what form should I ask him to prepare the wood?

Once I have the wood, what should I do to prepare it for turning? After looking at a few videos on YouTube it seems that logs should be cut in lengths approximately equal to the diameter then split to yield whatever use intended for it. At this point I don't know how dry the wood will be so I will probably have to treat the end grain on the wet stuff to prevent cracking. At this point I'm not interested in turning wet wood. I have a couple of books coming my way based on comments made in another thread. One is having to do with green wood. So, I'm hoping to get up to speed fairly quick beforehand in case some wood comes my way sooner than my proper book learnin'.

I also contacted a guy offering Madrone and Eucalyptus firewood. He was also very helpful and stated he would be able to obtain logs that might be appropriate for woodturning instead of the split stuff used for firewood. His neighbor was a woodturner so he was aware of what I might want. Do you think this is a good source?

I don't have any of this wood yet but geez, these first contacts were so easy and promising.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and discussed what I planned to do today. He brought me back to his shop (he's a gunsmith) and handed me a dozen or so small pieces of wood that's been sitting in a cabinet for over 60 years. They were from his father when he wanted to be a gunstock maker. I have no idea the species of wood but it's hard and certainly dry. They will be my first subjects after receiving the other book ordered recently, Identifying Wood.

[Greg Parrish]

Following along as I think I'm at about the same point in the learning curve. :)

Friends are always offering me wood limbs and stuff but I'm never sure what is worth the time to pursue as I just haven't worked with it. One friend gave me a large hickory limb that had been cut about 2.5 days prior by the power company clearing lines. The ends were cracked by the time I got it, but I managed to cut them back about 2" to solid wood and cut to length. Split many of them into D=shaped pieces and just waxed all the open cut areas. Of course, this was all the while not having a clue what I'm really doing with it. Anyway, I think I've done it completely wrong because I didn't remove the pith but the pieces were just too small. Hoping that by getting them waxed they remain stable until I can go back to them later. Worse case scenario, it turns out to be free fire wood or smoking wood.

[Paul Gilbert]

The only dry wood I turn is for lidded boxes, spindles, and things like pens and salt and pepper mils. Bowls are exclusively green wood. It is so much more fun to turn wet wood and send those long ribbons flying than to hog out dusty, hard dry wood.

When approaching green wood you need to make a decision at the start between once and twice turned bowls. I normally twice turn bowls with the wide opening toward the pith, and turn to final thickness and let warp the natural edge ones. That is just my prejudice.

You can make interesting decorative goblets from small branches providing the pith is not dead center. Make the stem long, and with no pith. Leave the bark on the top of the goblet. Turn thin and let warp. They look good with a bent stem.

[Greg Parrish]

Resulting first trial with piece of free hickory. This is as far as I got before I had to paper bag it to head out with the fam. Will come back to it tonight to trim some more away. Next time I would slope the inside more for a smaller bottom.

http://txbonds.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v100/p2234096683-4.jpg

http://txbonds.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v19/p2234097876-4.jpg

http://txbonds.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v111/p2234097626-4.jpg

[John Hart]

The hunt for abundant and interesting wood is always a favorite. There's just something about scoring something "in the wild" wondering what it can be....and watching it take shape....or take off!!!:eek:

But either way....you take it from nature to its final form. And that is....at least to me....what turning is all about

Good luck with your treasure.....Sometimes dinner and a movie coupons/gift cards can mean more to your new found friend than anything else.

[Steve Mathews]

Greg - We may be at the same point in woodturning time wise but you are by far light years ahead of me in terms of skills. That beginning work on the free hickory looks great! Can't wait to see how you progress with it.

[Olaf Vogel]

Steve

I do the same thing here in Ontario.
Normally, the large straight trunk pieces are claimed by people doing live edge tables.
Not that I care, because I want the crotch pieces - the screwier the better.

These are normally regarded as crap. Hard to split for firewood, so you have to chainsaw them. Not great for tables.
I get them for free.

The "cost" is that I need to available, when the arborist has a tree being cut.
So I show up with a truck, trailer and hand cart. Save them the work of removal.

(one time my hand cart broke from excess weight. The crew loaded the trailer for me!)
Usually I give them a 24 pack for the trouble. And my appreciation. And my business card. :)

Leave the pieces as large as you can. DON'T cut them.
Coat the ends in Anchor Seal right away.
Store them out of the sun, is a "not wet" place.

Then cut to size and start turning. Sometimes it takes me months to get through a haul.
I turn only when wet. As wet as possible. Then let them dry slowly for months.

Try turning wet, compared to dry and you'll never go back....(to dry)
Its SO much easier, smoother cutting and nicer to work with.

Its free wood! Experiment and have fun.

http://www.olafvogel.com/bowls1.html

[Greg Parrish]

Awesome website Olaf. I book marked it for future reference. Not sure what lathe that is but it looks stout and the pieces you put into it look massive. Don't know if the 18/36 laguna I have coming would handle pieces that big or not. One thing I can say is that I need a bigger chainsaw. My little stihl home owner garden pruner model isn't going to be long enough for much good.



Steve

I do the same thing here in Ontario.
Normally, the large straight trunk pieces are claimed by people doing live edge tables.
Not that I care, because I want the crotch pieces - the screwier the better.

These are normally regarded as crap. Hard to split for firewood, so you have to chainsaw them. Not great for tables.
I get them for free.

The "cost" is that I need to available, when the arborist has a tree being cut.
So I show up with a truck, trailer and hand cart. Save them the work of removal.

(one time my hand cart broke from excess weight. The crew loaded the trailer for me!)
Usually I give them a 24 pack for the trouble. And my appreciation. And my business card. :)

Leave the pieces as large as you can. DON'T cut them.
Coat the ends in Anchor Seal right away.
Store them out of the sun, is a "not wet" place.

Then cut to size and start turning. Sometimes it takes me months to get through a haul.
I turn only when wet. As wet as possible. Then let them dry slowly for months.

Its free wood! Experiment and have fun.

http://www.olafvogel.com/bowls1.html

[Adam Petersen]

This, to me, was just another aspect of the turning vortex. I am able to get a lot of free wood locally too. Nothing as nice as what you have had open up to you through the tree services though! I had to buy a bigger chainsaw. I had to learn sharpening a chainsaw (easy by the way). Had to learn safe chainsawing techniques for how we saw. Had to learn how to mark logs to cut. Had to research bandsaw blades for processing the chainsawn blanks. Had to figure out how to store the wood once processed. I use candle wax and coat them until I can turn them rough. Then it's the paper bag for me, possible with the rims waxed again. I would use anchorseal but I have a lot of free wax I can use. It's worth it all in the end. The cost of blanks, to me, is exorbent and like John says, taking it from trunk to bowl or vase or whatever is what I think this is all about.

[John K Jordan]

...he would be more than willing to make it available to me instead of cutting it up for firewood. Now I have to figure out what to do to prepare for this good fortune.

Be careful - with a tree service you might very quickly be overrun with wood. Since they often have to dispose of the wood somehow many are looking for a place to dump it to save themselves time and money. I have a sawmill behind my barn and after a couple of inquiries I soon had more logs that I could possibly saw. Before long, I had big piles of rotting logs behind the barn.

The advice from the wise ones is don't take more green wood than you can use in a few weeks. If so, you will soon have a huge stock of wood quickly destroying itself with checks and cracks, especially if the wood is kept in fairly short rounds.

The other John Jordan (the famous woodturner) said he does this: gets the whole log, even if he has to pay to get it delivered. Stores it off the ground in the shade. When he is ready to use some he cuts about 6" off the end and throws that away, then cuts what he wants to turn that day.

Even if you will use it right away, any you take should be sealed as soon as possible, preferably right after it is cut down. This may be even more important in a dry climate. Some species (and some individual trees) are FAR worse than others - some will almost start to crack 10 minutes after they are cut.

Green wood is fun and easy to turn but I mostly turn dry wood so I process most of what I get into turning blanks using my shop band saw. I seal as needed and stack loosely on wire shelves to dry. I try to add to my stock every month or so and I now have a constant supply of dry wood for turning, some over 10 years old.

One other thing about getting free green wood from a tree service: some have no easy way to deliver a log to you and might need to cut it up into chunks small enough to load by hand into a truck or trailer. Most of the free logs I get I have to haul myself - I often haul my tractor on the big trailer, load the logs, leave the tractor at the site, go back and unload the logs with the bobcat, then go back with the trailer to retrieve the tractor. What a pain. If the tree service can life and load the 6' logs life would be easier.

BTW, a trailer may be a lot easier to load than a truck - I've loaded large 12' logs maybe 24" in diameter onto my trailer using the method with ramps and a chain wrapped around the log, pulled with a car or come-along or something. This method has it's own set of issues.

JKJ

[John C Cox]

Sage advice here.

Dont let them drop wood on your property. You will soon end up covered in logs.

If possible - choose the wood you can do something good with.

If if you can't work it today - seal the ends. If it's going to be more than a week - get the bark off and coat it with some sort of anti-bug stuff so you don't end up with bugs all over the place.

[robert baccus]

Another idea--for tree wood cover with a tarp and water weekly. What's the worst that can happen. It maybe will spalt if checked occasionaly and it will stay wet and it will not crack. Don't just throw a tarp at it--cover it to prevent dry air from cracking it. Forget about drying big wood and logs--takes years usually, unless it splits enough. If super wood go ahead and seal all cut ends and wood as well.

[Olaf Vogel]

Not sure what lathe that is but it looks stout and the pieces you put into it look massive.

Some info here: http://www.olafvogel.com/cant-bros-lathe.html
Yes, its set up specifically for turning large, green pieces.


Be careful - with a tree service you might very quickly be overrun with wood.

BTW, a trailer may be a lot easier to load than a truck - I've loaded large 12' logs maybe 24" in diameter onto my trailer using the method with ramps and a chain wrapped around the log, pulled with a car or come-along or something. This method has it's own set of issues.

JKJ

Too much wood? Ah...a nice problem to have. :)
Yes a trailer is much easier than a truck. Uhaul has a 5x8, with drop back ramp. You load the pieces onto a handcart, then roll it on the trailer. Really easy.
http://www.olafvogel.com/materials.html

Thats the crew that loaded for me
and a few pieces that were far too big for me to handle. (over 1000# each)
http://www.olafvogel.com/uploads/4/7/6/2/47621777/7993289_orig.jpg

Sure, there's a learning curve for dealing with wet wood. But its not that hard.
Depends on your style and desire.

[Steve Mathews]

I don't have the wood yet so don't want to count the chicks before they hatch. But I think the Uhaul trailer idea is a good one, at least for me. There are plenty of places to rent them around here and if some wood becomes available I should be able to pick one up close by. The trailer that Olaf shows in his pic is the same type used to haul my lathe. Fortunately I have a tractor at home so unloading the pieces shouldn't be a problem. I'll just have to figure out a way to load. When I stated before that I wasn't too optimistic about finding wood locally, the pic below is the reason why. Our landscape is not exactly covered with towering hardwood trees. What I failed to consider is what's available in town in the more urban residential areas. I'm finding myself looking at trees now while in town instead of the pretty ladies.

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=d0b11c22e0&view=fimg&th=15ab835dd1a1b396&attid=0.1&disp=emb&realattid=ii_15ab835a2fea5c32&attbid=ANGjdJ-I0hJeZ4vJDGvGFbNJZsQQOnK5kvm7k2yfkYXilOSCt_epdWltK xT6vxFPmY2GqxPb9zi6BLh-BFuH0tk5umGjsYzutNd-qApMI_MsihIEIxi5R-fO5Mup4h0&sz=w880-h660&ats=1489150314828&rm=15ab835dd1a1b396&zw&atsh=1

[John K Jordan]

One thing I can say is that I need a bigger chainsaw. My little stihl home owner garden pruner model isn't going to be long enough for much good.

I have four Stihl chan saws but the one I use 99% of the time is in the field a MS250 with a 16" bar. It is light enough to use for hours at a time. (I spent 4 hours sawing continuously a few days ago cleaning up downed trees.)

Remember, you can easily cut a 32" log with a 16" bar, assuming the engine is not too wimpy and the chain is very sharp. My largest and most powerful saw has a 24" bar but I rarely use it - heavy, awkward, and the long bar can add safety issues. I once used that saw to cut up a 48" red oak tree that came down in a storm so my friend could push the pieces out of the yard with his tractor.

If your saw is not powerful enough and you get a new one, consider simply getting a short bar and a longer one - they can be changed as needed in a minute. Also, a hint for sawing up trees away from the shop - take an extra bar and chain. That way when, not if, you get the saw pinched in the kerf you can remove the head, attach the spare bar, and cut the other loose. This is not needed when cutting up rounds and short logs since you can't get the saw stuck.

My most useful saw for woodturning is a Stihl electric since I use it just outside after I bring wood to the shop. It is quiet, doesn't require the gas/oil mixture, starts instantly, stops instantly, and has plenty of power. I even use it inside the shop at times.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

I am not a professional but here are my thoughts;
1. Don't take any soft wood at least at first
2. I usually offer a bowl or other turning in return or if the wood is really good a box of beer.
3. I like to get cookies from near the base of larger trees and don't take anything including branches under about 14" in diameter
4. I like to cut the cookies on site but I take care too clean up any mess I make.
5. I think it's worth time to cut it to blanks before applying a sealer to the ends
6. I leave it under tarps or if smaller pieces I put in a large plastic garbage can with a lid. I do watch for mould and leave the lid open occasionally.
7. I loose less to cracking and splitting if I rough turn it to bowls, platters, plates and I like to turn hollow forms to finish thickness while wet. I usually try to leave a small stub on the bottom that I can use to remount to do any final sanding or to prepare for a finish.
8. When I put wood under a tarp I try to keep it off the ground but I occasionally toss a little dirt on it to aid in spalting.
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[Steve Mathews]

Pete - Good job cutting up those logs. I'm looking forward to duplicating that effort and will take advantage of your advice. Thanks

[John K Jordan]

5. I think it's worth time to cut it to blanks before applying a sealer to the ends
6. I leave it under tarps or if smaller pieces I put in a large plastic garbage can with a lid. I do watch for mould and leave the lid open occasionally.

8. When I put wood under a tarp I try to keep it off the ground but I occasionally toss a little dirt on it to aid in spalting.


Great points! With wood (as well as farm equipment, hay, etc. I think it is best to not wrap a tarp tightly and allow air to come in the bottom and circulate around the top. And off the ground for sure unless trying to spalt.

Another thing not mentioned in this thread is ponding - this used to be used quite a bit to preserve green wood almost indefinitely - just dunk it in a pond (or 55-gal drum, etc). If the air can't get to it can't crack, can't mold, etc. I have a friend whose house is built with posts and beams dredged up from the bottom of one of the great lakes. You can also freeze green wood to prevent deterioration (if you have extra freezer space.)

With certain species power post beetles are a real problem. Once in the middle of cutting some sugar maple near my house I watch a "cloud" of power post beetles fly in from the direction of the woods and land on the end grain of the pieces. I assume they were attracted by the smell carried by the wind. I had some end grain already coated with Anchorseal and I watched as the beetles went through the wet wax and started boring into the wood. They were a lot faster at this than I ever imagined - a most amazing experience. Logs/chunks can be treated with a borax or other product to discourage this. Or maybe do it all indoors.

I agree with sealing after cutting into blanks, depending on how soon I can get to it. Sometimes I seal the ends of the logs then when processing on the bandsaw I square up those ends, checking for checks, seeing what the wood looks like, and exposing any other defects I'd rather see and mark before sealing and storing to dry. This is a batch of Sassafras I processed a few days ago. The tree had been standing dead for a year so most of the free water had drained out but my meter still showed it maxed out at 32%. For scale, the bowl blanks are about 8" in diameter.

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[Steve Mathews]

John - If there was a prize for good looking wood blanks yours would probably get 1st place. Nicely done!

Emoticon for tapping foot - Waiting for my first call on wood.

[Olaf Vogel]

Fortunately I have a tractor at home so unloading the pieces shouldn't be a problem. I'll just have to figure out a way to load.



I use one of these (but with larger tires).
Sometimes I need to take a bit of run at the ramp. 350 lbs is about the biggest I've managed.
355778

Getting em off is easy. Stand them up, roll to the end and let them roll down.
:)

Or you could use the push cart.

[John K Jordan]

John - If there was a prize for good looking wood blanks yours would probably get 1st place. Nicely done!
Emoticon for tapping foot - Waiting for my first call on wood.

Thanks. I have a friend with no bandsaw who brings wood here for me to cut up into blanks. He always says "It's good enough, it's good enough!" while I ignore him and continue to cut and trim and make blanks suitable for a gallery. One of my favorite hobbies.

Just jump in the vehicle and come to TN for a visit. Be sure to bring an empty car or truck. A friend from the Southwest visited once and when she left her station wagon frame was sitting on the axles, springs completely compressed - slabs and boards and turning wood, walnut, cherry, maple, persimmon, poplar, oak, etc. It's hard for some of us to even imagine living where hardwoods are scarce.

JKJ

[Eugene Dixon]

A hydraulic bottle jack can sometime be helpful for freeing a bound chainsaw, OBTW.

[John K Jordan]

A hydraulic bottle jack can sometime be helpful for freeing a bound chainsaw, OBTW.

That's a good idea, if the log or limb is close to the ground with enough clearance underneath for the jack. I usually throw a 6' long steel pry bar in the truck, useful at times. We also take a good arborist's hand saw for the occasional jamb from misjudging the twisting forces on an overhead limb.

For those who haven't tried them the best way I know when cutting a log suspended at two points is to carry a couple of thin wedges. You can buy plastic wedges in case you hit one with the chain or make some from wood. Make a cut partway down from the top, drive in a wedge or two to keep the kerf open, then slip the saw in below the wedges and continue the cut. No surprises. I've cut logs maybe 24" in diameter this way and the wedge is enough to hold the two halves suspended until you knock out the wedges. This is easier and more controllable than cutting up from underneath.

JKJ

[Steve Mathews]

I use one of these (but with larger tires).
Sometimes I need to take a bit of run at the ramp. 350 lbs is about the biggest I've managed.
355778

Getting em off is easy. Stand them up, roll to the end and let them roll down.
:)

Or you could use the push cart.

Olaf- I like it! My cart is a little lighter duty but it'll help. I forgot also having a good quality come-a-long that could be used to drag logs onto the trailer. It's slow goin' but effective. Yep, loading the wood shouldn't be a problem.

[Peter Blair]

Steve I forgot to mention but it should is widely understood that I cut the pith out of the center. Depending on the size of the log I remove between 1 and 2 inches slab across the width of the log. I know others remove the pith as the turn the piece which works for them. I am lucky enough to have a nice trailer with a ramp. I usually put a 4 wheel dolly under the ramp and slide the barely manageable large pieces onto the cart. I push it into my shop and cut to more manageable sized pieces with an electric chain saw. At this point I sometimes will trim with my band saw but usually leave that until I am ready to put some on the lathe.