Andrew J. Coholic
03-05-2017, 5:27 PM
So, since I know I am not too well known here.. a bit of background. I grew up in a woodworking business, forced labour all through my school years (European immigrant fathers dont feel the need for summer holidays, lol). Decided after some university I was actually missing the woodworking, so three more years of college later and I was back working for my father. Just over 20 years ago I decided to take over from my dad. And, continue today to try and run the 6000 sq foot, three person shop as smoothly as possible. We do a wide range of general woodworking from residential furniture, cabinets/case goods and a lot of mill-work.
I also supply materials and product to some of the local contractors - which leads me to this thread.
Ive made a whole lot of mistakes, both in business and manufacturing sides of things. Lots.. and my dad (who always seemed to do well in both aspects) just let me make them, and learn from them. Especially in my younger days, through my 20's and 30's (Ill be 47 this year) I see so many things that I could have done a little (or a lot) differently.
One of the younger guys I so a fair but of work for - for the past two years mainly supplying mill-work to - decided to branch out into the wild world of melamine cabinetry last fall. Ive done some cabinets for him, and also cut some material and edge banded it. Recently, he decided he will make more $$ if he can cut the material, join it and edge tape by hand, etc instead of paying me to cut it. I have a 10' slider, set up well and a boring machine to dowel cases together, as well as a decent edge bander. Being young and ambitious - I understand where he is coming from. I'd have wanted to do everything myself too. But, I invested over the years in some decent equipment, and learned how to use that equipment, and understand to do things on a commercial basis you need to be efficient, keep the quality high and get it done fast. There are several shops here that do melamine case work and all are set up decently well.
My thoughts to him (working out of his garage with minimal equipment) is that it would make more sense to get me to at least cut up his material, edge band it, and possibly bore for him if he wants. At the minimum cutting and edge banding - and he can take it from there.
We had a discussion Friday (when he came to pick up a closet job I just had cut and banded for him), where he thought if he bought a mid line track saw, he could actually cut up melamine as fast as I can on my large panel saw (and to the same quality), and edge it himself by hand with an iron, with pre glued tape. And use pocket screws, or something else to join cases together.
I tried to explain, I am pretty quick on the saw (takes me a few hours too cut up the case parts for an average kitchen) and the quality is excellent. Banding is, well, very fast - literally what takes a day to do by hand is done on the edge bander in 15 minutes. With a track saw, you might get some decent cuts, but blades are going to need to be replaced & sharpened regularly. Keeping things square and accurate will be time consuming and no where near what I'd consider doable on a commercial scale. He (half my age) thinks otherwise.
I just hate to see someone spend a few grand on tools that probably wont perform as they are expected to, and you are no further ahead. Ive been there done that (which is one reason years ago I stayed away from melamine) and know what it is like to try and make a quality product when you cant even cut cleanly, etc.
Im interested to see how things pan out. I am genuinely concerned with him doing well. But I cant "tell" him how to do things. And he thinks he knows better than me so...
If I were him, I'd continue to use a shop like ours to sub out some of the work, and save money to buy a decent saw and other equipment if the work starts rolling in.
I also supply materials and product to some of the local contractors - which leads me to this thread.
Ive made a whole lot of mistakes, both in business and manufacturing sides of things. Lots.. and my dad (who always seemed to do well in both aspects) just let me make them, and learn from them. Especially in my younger days, through my 20's and 30's (Ill be 47 this year) I see so many things that I could have done a little (or a lot) differently.
One of the younger guys I so a fair but of work for - for the past two years mainly supplying mill-work to - decided to branch out into the wild world of melamine cabinetry last fall. Ive done some cabinets for him, and also cut some material and edge banded it. Recently, he decided he will make more $$ if he can cut the material, join it and edge tape by hand, etc instead of paying me to cut it. I have a 10' slider, set up well and a boring machine to dowel cases together, as well as a decent edge bander. Being young and ambitious - I understand where he is coming from. I'd have wanted to do everything myself too. But, I invested over the years in some decent equipment, and learned how to use that equipment, and understand to do things on a commercial basis you need to be efficient, keep the quality high and get it done fast. There are several shops here that do melamine case work and all are set up decently well.
My thoughts to him (working out of his garage with minimal equipment) is that it would make more sense to get me to at least cut up his material, edge band it, and possibly bore for him if he wants. At the minimum cutting and edge banding - and he can take it from there.
We had a discussion Friday (when he came to pick up a closet job I just had cut and banded for him), where he thought if he bought a mid line track saw, he could actually cut up melamine as fast as I can on my large panel saw (and to the same quality), and edge it himself by hand with an iron, with pre glued tape. And use pocket screws, or something else to join cases together.
I tried to explain, I am pretty quick on the saw (takes me a few hours too cut up the case parts for an average kitchen) and the quality is excellent. Banding is, well, very fast - literally what takes a day to do by hand is done on the edge bander in 15 minutes. With a track saw, you might get some decent cuts, but blades are going to need to be replaced & sharpened regularly. Keeping things square and accurate will be time consuming and no where near what I'd consider doable on a commercial scale. He (half my age) thinks otherwise.
I just hate to see someone spend a few grand on tools that probably wont perform as they are expected to, and you are no further ahead. Ive been there done that (which is one reason years ago I stayed away from melamine) and know what it is like to try and make a quality product when you cant even cut cleanly, etc.
Im interested to see how things pan out. I am genuinely concerned with him doing well. But I cant "tell" him how to do things. And he thinks he knows better than me so...
If I were him, I'd continue to use a shop like ours to sub out some of the work, and save money to buy a decent saw and other equipment if the work starts rolling in.