ULS Universal Laser query- failing laser tube maybe? How to tell?

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Hi Folks,
our laser tube was replaced in 2012. The machine is a ULS M-300, (45 watt) and it hadn't done much work after it was renewed.

It was going fine for me after we bought it, last year, but the last two jobs I've done have been an incredible struggle to cut through 3mm acrylic that it normally sails through. I've had to drop the speed down to about 1.5 % and power at 100%. If the speed was 2.5 to 3%, it would not go right through.

If I set it to cut out say 8 acrylic elements, it'll do the first 2 or three OK, then cut less and less as the job progresses. I've had to break cutting down into say 2 pieces at a time instead, and send them, to stop it from running out of grunt partway through a bigger job.

I have double-checked and cleaned the lenses, and I've checked the focus at 2".

Is this a sign the tube probably needs regassing, perhaps, or might there be some simpler fix I have overlooked?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

[Lee DeRaud]

Sounds like tube to me. You're coming up on five years, so I'm not too surprised: they seem to have a "shelf-life" even if they aren't used a lot.

[Mike Null]

I agree with Lee, though shelf life is unpredictable. My first ULS lasted 36 months. At that time the warranty was 36 months and ULS sent a new tube at no charge. That one was still going strong when I sold the machine 8 years later. My Trotec lasted 8 years before replacement.

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Thanks... (or no thanks, that's not quite what I'd hoped to hear!)
Today it is struggling after 4 passes at 100% power, 1% speed, to cut through 2mm cast acrylic.
It makes a dent but that's it...

I hope the Australian fixes are not going to send me broke! A recharge would be more affordable, depending on where to, than a 'new' ULS laser unit.

[Kev Williams]

runs okay then loses power--

Another possibility- How's your tube's cooling fan doing; how's the fan's filter(s); the cooling fins on the tube-- if some spider has built a web in the cooling air path somewhere, it's possible it could collect enough lint to slow the air flow...

Just a thought...

[Paul Phillips]

Hi Ian, sorry, but it sure sounds exactly like what happened to my laser tube, I would think it's a safe bet that the tube is going out, unfortunately ULS raised their prices last year from the most affordable in the business at $1250 for a replacement tube to $2150, there is a very reasonable alternative called Evergreen lasers, if you have the time to wait for it to be repaired they charge $750 if you tell them you are a Sawmill creek member. Takes about 2-3 weeks. Here's a thread I started about it awhile back.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?236383-Affordable-Laser-Repair!&highlight=evergreen
Good luck!

[Jerome Stanek]

Hi Ian, sorry, but it sure sounds exactly like what happened to my laser tube, I would think it's a safe bet that the tube is going out, unfortunately ULS raised their prices last year from the most affordable in the business at $1250 for a replacement tube to $2150, there is a very reasonable alternative called Evergreen lasers, if you have the time to wait for it to be repaired they charge $750 if you tell them you are a Sawmill creek member. Takes about 2-3 weeks. Here's a thread I started about it awhile back.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?236383-Affordable-Laser-Repair!&highlight=evergreen
Good luck!

I wonder the shipping cost to them and back to Australia

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Thanks, Kev, and Paul.
Kev, the airflow isn't blocked at all... but the problem first became noticable a month ago when we had several days of temprtatures in the 40degree celsius bracket, so I wondered if cooling might be a factor. However lasering was worse yesterday than when the dailt temps were much hotter.

Paul, I'm sure postage costs to and from Australia are going to horrify me! It's a heavy unit! Thanks for the advice though.

I'm still awaiting a price from the Aussie agents.
They said the tubes are made up upon order, because they start to deteriorate from the day they're made, and have about a 5 year lifespan, so they don't have extras in stock, as such...

[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks, Kev, and Paul.
Kev, the airflow isn't blocked at all... but the problem first became noticable a month ago when we had several days of temprtatures in the 40degree celsius bracket, so I wondered if cooling might be a factor. However lasering was worse yesterday than when the dailt temps were much hotter.

Paul, I'm sure postage costs to and from Australia are going to horrify me! It's a heavy unit! Thanks for the advice though.

I'm still awaiting a price from the Aussie agents.
They said the tubes are made up upon order, because they start to deteriorate from the day they're made, and have about a 5 year lifespan, so they don't have extras in stock, as such...
That's what Epilog told me too, they were amazed that my tube lasted over 9 years. They said 4-5 years whether you suit or not. Mine was $2,300 plus another $175 to buy the mirror alignment tool, which would have been $185 to rent.

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Just got the price...$3,890 + 10% tax + Delivery in Australia $50, after I send my unit to Sydney, which will be another $50 or so... not much change from $4400.

[Scott Anders]

Just got the price...$3,890 + 10% tax + Delivery in Australia $50, after I send my unit to Sydney, which will be another $50 or so... not much change from $4400.

That's not too bad. I wouldn't hesitate at that price. And don't worry about the GST component you'll get that back. You'll be up and running again in no time which outweighs the losses of waiting on a recharge.

[Kev Williams]

yeeeessh.. $4000-ish v $800-ish for a recharge... One more reason why I have multiple machines...

[Scott Anders]

yeeeessh.. $4000-ish v $800-ish for a recharge... One more reason why I have multiple machines...
We're talking Australian dollars Kev on the new tube. For you it would be around $2000 vs $800. If Ian sent his over for refurb, the postage would be around $500 alone plus insurance, the month long wait, then he'd probably have to pay import duty (maybe) when it comes back. I reckon he'd be looking at at least $2000 AU plus the long wait.

[Kev Williams]

One more reason I don't live in Australia :D

(or lots of other places)

[Scott Anders]

One more reason I don't live in Australia :D

(or lots of other places)

Haha yes stuff does get expensive over here

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Got another price, this time from a Brisbane agent (the first one was Sydney- 1100 km south of here) - at $4700 inc gst & freight, but only 2-3 week turnaround, and upgrade to 50 watt.

(The Sydney people said 6 weeks turnaround time.) At the moment I need it right now! It was so painful doing a job last night cutting through 2mm acrylic at 100% power, and 1% speed, and just making it through, one letter at a time, and 2 minutes wait to start the next! If you ran the whole file, only the first letter cut right through...)

[Bill George]

I would purchase a Ray Fine CO2 60 watt glass tube laser and not look back. Even if you replaced a tube a year and you won't, $4700 will pay a lot toward a new one.

[Scott Anders]

At the moment I need it right now!

I might be able to help you out in the meantime Ian (I've got 2 Trotecs). I'm in Toowoomba. I'll PM you

[Lee DeRaud]

I would purchase a Ray Fine CO2 60 watt glass tube laser and not look back. Even if you replaced a tube a year and you won't, $4700 will pay a lot toward a new one.Really? If someone offered you either a 60W Ray Fine or a 50W ULS M300 for the same price, you'd turn down the ULS?

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Thanks very much for all the advice, Folks... I scrounged the corners of the credit card and came up with the deposit on the replacement/exchange 50W tube.
Scott- thank you very much - I'll be in touch! We're about an hour NW of you. :)

[Scott Anders]

No worries Ian. Even though Bill doesn't see the sense in it, your 15 year old ULS will run rings around a 60 watt chinese laser (engraving) cutting would be similar maybe. No offence Bill.

[Bill George]

Really? If someone offered you either a 60W Ray Fine or a 50W ULS M300 for the same price, you'd turn down the ULS?

Not if I lived in Australia and had to pay those kind of prices every 3 to 5 years for the tube recharge, Lee. Don't forget I had a ULS and it worked great for me and getting the tube recharged made sense. But not at $4700!! Sounds like price gouging at its finest.

[Lee DeRaud]

Not if I lived in Australia and had to pay those kind of prices every 3 to 5 years for the tube recharge, Lee. Don't forget I had a ULS and it worked great for me and getting the tube recharged made sense. But not at $4700!! Sounds like price gouging at its finest.That's Australian dollars, including GST and shipping. I wonder how good a deal the RF machine looks like priced out the same way.

And I'm ignoring the lead time and learning curve.

[Kev Williams]

As much as I like my Triumph and what it's done for me--
IF I could find ANY 'western' 40w+ RF-tube machine in good mechanical and electrical condition, even with a shot tube for what I paid for the Triumph, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[Bill George]

Bottom line, If he is going to have to wait and pay a lot of money because he needs his machine ASAP, then he needs a backup machine. The Ray Fine or other could serve as his backup while he is waiting for the recharged tube to arrive. So he can pay $500 for a glass tube every year or $4,000 for a recharge metal tube every 5 years or less. US based not an issue, go with the Evergreen recharge and wait for the week it needs to be done.

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Thanks for the opinions & help, Bill, Kev, Scott & Folks.
Yes, a backup machine would be helpful... I'm also looking at an old Epilog, that might have enough life to tide me over till it dies...
But last night I got a slight reprieve- the smaller of the two big jobs has been pushed back 3 weeks, to completion date 24th April, instead of 2nd April, so that gives me breathing room to await the tube, and as for the other job... well the cnc router might have to do, and Scott Anders kindly offered to help us out too, which i really appreciate.

That job isn't confirmed, but it'll be panic stages if it is! But a good job if I don't have to quote on it.

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Well after saying 'yes' and tightening the waist belt a few notches... the new/exchange ULS tube, upgraded to 50w has landed in Brisbane.
I'll have it in a few days after we get down...

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Just an update: the tube was tested at 54 watt, so I was keen to see how it went through thicker acrylic.
The old tube could cut 10mm acrylic OK, but baulked at 12mm, and made a molten mess in several passes, on 15mm.

This tube cut through 15mm acrylic very nicely in 2 passes, with no focus adjustment needed.
That was however on the strongest and slowest settings: 100% power and 0.2% speed.

[Joseph Shawa]

Am I missing something here? You guys are talking over 2K for a new tube?!!!

I got my 150W Tube AND power supply for under $1500. The shipping was a large portion of it.

Does the machine use proprietary parts?

[Jerome Stanek]

Am I missing something here? You guys are talking over 2K for a new tube?!!!

I got my 150W Tube AND power supply for under $1500. The shipping was a large portion of it.

Does the machine use proprietary parts?


Yes you are the tube is a RF tube not glass

[Joseph Shawa]

Got it. Thanks.
What is the life expectancy of an RF tube?
What is the advantage?
Can a machine that uses glass CO2 tubes be retrofitted?

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

1. 5-8 years or hopefully more with RF/ceramic!
2. Finer dot, better focus & control. Way better engraving. Air cooled-no water to deal with.
3. I doubt it...

Apparently they all start to deteriorate from the day they're made, whether they're used or not.

As a matter of interest, we cut some 15mm thick acrylic letters in 2 passes, with the new tube.
The old tube could not do that!

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

Well... 4 years and 8 months later, and suddenly the refurbished March 2017 ULS 55watt RF tube has almost died...
I wish overseas postage was cheaper, and refurbishing the tube was too.

It's a wonderful machine, but in the meantime we have 2 big chinese machines also, now.

Is Evergreen still the most affordable USA ULS tube refurbisher these days?