Another stair question

[John Miliunas]

OK, maybe this should go in the "design" or "ot" forum but, I don't know how often our "stair guys" go there!:) If a moderator deems otherwise, I understand.

Anyhow, I'm working on trying to replace a currently very, very ugly stairway at home with something a bit nicer. It's already an open design and we intend on keeping it that way. My question is regarding the run of the treads. Currently, they are just barely a touch over 9", hovering right at about 9-1/4". My "plan" was to basically duplicate what's there for the run, rise, etc..., albeit using a bit different design, ala Mark Singer.:) BUT, having researched it a tad further, I'm finding that they "should" be 10" or better! I have a hunch they've been 9" for a long, long time and we certainly don't have a problem navigating them in that configuration. Would I be committing some type of sin if I went ahead and basically duplicated what's already there or should I get some more wood, making sure I can yield 10"???:confused: Suggestions and/or guidance are greatly appreciated!:) :cool:

[Richard Wolf]

Absolute minimum sizes are 9" run and 8" rise. This is also a very common size here in the Northeast for all homes. 95% of the homes I work in use this run and rise.
While it seems like not a big deal to add 1" to each tread, that will add a total of over a foot to the run X the width of the staircase, 3', or 3 square feet of unusable livine space to a house. With construction costs ranging from $150 to $250 and up per square foot, you can see why these sizes are commonly used.
Just one more point, make sure you are measuring from the bullnose of one step to the bullnose of the next step, don't include the overlap.
If you need any help, please feel free to ask or PM me.

Richard

[John Miliunas]

Thanks Richard! I was kind of figuring that, as long as I'm "replacing", I should be OK. The rise on these is 7" and I dare not make that any less or the run be any more, as then I would end up with the stairs literally running into a wall!:eek: Somehow, that defeats the purpose of having stairs, don't it?:D AFter culling through the material I have for this part of the project (Ash, which is yielding 6/4 planed), I'll be OK if I can touch them right at 9" wide. No bullnose to speak of, just a very slight radius on the front edge. Thanks again for the super-quick reply and valuable info! Appreciate it!:) :cool:

[Andy Hoyt]

Richard - I seem to recall that there's an old rule of thumb for rise and run determinations. Something about adding up to 18 (or 19 or something).

Don't know if this would help John much, but I'd enjoy having my memory refreshed.

[Richard Wolf]

Andy, you are right, the rule of thumb is actually 18. No longer practible.
John, I didn't mean confusion, when I said the minium rise was 8" , I was refering to comfort. It reality, the max. rise is 8". So at 7" you are in good shape.

[Dan Larson]

Hey John,

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind sharing some photos of this project with us along the way? Since your design draws inspiration from Mark Singer's designs, it's only fitting that you provide us with regular updates on this project in the Singer tradition, right? :D I have a staircase remodel project on my punch list, too. I'm sure that I'd benefit from any wisdom that you might offer.

Dan

[John Miliunas]

Hey John,

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind sharing some photos of this project with us along the way? Since your design draws inspiration from Mark Singer's designs, it's only fitting that you provide us with regular updates on this project in the Singer tradition, right? :D I have a staircase remodel project on my punch list, too. I'm sure that I'd benefit from any wisdom that you might offer.

Dan

Dan, you mean pics of all my mistakes along the way for all the world to see???:eek: :confused: :rolleyes: Okayyyyyy...I'll try. Right now, not much to see. Just milling, ripping and cutting stair treads to length. It'll start to get "interesting" when I get to the stringers! :D The only ones I've ever done were real short runs for a raised patio deck. I've never done any on this scale and these are not really a "conventional" design. Actually might be fun documenting it along the way, so I'll give it a shot. Least I could do after all the wonderful tutorials from other folks out here, not the least of which is, Mr. Singer himself!:) Thanks for the suggestion!:) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,
You ask a lot of questions....I talked to you ....made drawings ....mailed details....wait I will get on a plane , Wisconsin I am coming.....and help you build it:rolleyes:

[John Miliunas]

John,
You ask a lot of questions....I talked to you ....made drawings ....mailed details....wait I will get on a plane , Wisconsin I am coming.....and help you build it:rolleyes:

Hey, I'm just a dumb 'ol Cheesehead! What didya' expect???:eek: I just don't want this thing looking worse when I get done with it than what we're starting with!:D Besides, you never did tell me what the run on the threads was supposed to be!!! (I'll be applying for a "Handicapped Parking" permit later this week!:D :D ):) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John,
I asked you to stretch it out and you said there was no room! So it sounds like you have to keep your rise and run as they were.:rolleyes:

[Richard Wolf]

John, if you post your total rise and total run we could probibly redesign this whole thing for you.
That 7" rise that you have now does give you some wiggle room.

Richard

[Jim O'Dell]

........ It'll start to get "interesting" when I get to the stringers! :D The only ones I've ever done were real short runs for a raised patio deck. I've never done any on this scale and these are not really a "conventional" design...........


John, I take it you are going to cut new stringers then? Something you might look for, I saw a few years back on one of the home shows where they used the 2X material (8 or 10, don't remember) without cuting them, then there were pieces made out of OSB on the outsides with 2X material between them that were screwed on to the "stringers" to make the risers. Were said to be stronger than cutting the stringers, and also quieter. Maybe someone will know more about them and post some information. They looked like they would save a lot of time doing stairs. Jim.

[John Miliunas]

OK guys, like Mark said; The room I have to work with is finite! I checked with a builder friend of mine from the area and he said, that although "code" for around here would dictate 10" run for the treads, mine at 9" would be OK, as they're existing. I also discussed it with the "boss" and she likes the rise where it's at, as well. All in all, I think if I duplicate the general layout, I'll be OK.:) Yes, per Mark's suggestion, we would've loved to stretch it out a bit, but we can't do that, due to the position of the wall at the bottom of the steps.

Jim, I will be making new stringers, but you'll have to wait for the picture tutorial on that one!:) LOML and I have looked through all kinds of books and magazines and have not found anything like what Mark has proposed! I think it will look super-slick, once done! That is, if I don't screw it up in the process!:rolleyes: :o

So Mark, when you comin' up? I'll go ahead and schedule vacation time and get the rest of the material together!!!!:D :D :D :cool:

[Lee DeRaud]

So Mark, when you comin' up? I'll go ahead and schedule vacation time and get the rest of the material together!!!!:D :D :D :cool:Mark, better check the forecasts before you respond...right answer looks like "next May". :cool: :p

[Dan Larson]

Dan, you mean pics of all my mistakes along the way for all the world to see???:eek: :confused: :rolleyes: Okayyyyyy...I'll try.

Thanks John-- looking forward to the updates!

[Roger Everett]

The riser heigth and tread depth of a stairs is one of the code things that can be localy different than the standard IRC ( which is what most local codes are based on ). As in IRC calls for a max. riser heigth of 7 3/4", and tread depth of 10" min.. In my area, Florida , the code is max. riser of 7 3/4" , min. tread depth of 9". With an end result that whatever you lay them out to be, 2 riser heigths and depth of 1 tread must equal 24-25".
When doing a stair remodel, you can and sometimes must have to work with whats there, as a homeowner. When I do them, I need to bring things into complience, as I don't want the liaibility, should someone slip and fall and here comes a lawyer. Have fun, stair work isn't really rocket science it's just picking up a few tricks of the trade.
Roger

[Jason Roehl]

With construction costs ranging from $150 to $250 and up per square foot...
Richard

Dang, you guys sure are expensive out East. Around here, and I would think it's similar in John's neck of the woods, it's about $60/ft. for a tract home and even the higher-end custom homes tend not to top $100/ft. The exceptions I've worked on have been the log homes we've done, which have gone to $125-$150/ft., but I think that was as much bad management by the builder than anything else. Remodel jobs, of course, are another story altogether.

John, just scrap what you have and put in an escalator! :D Then someone else can worry about designing an appropriate rise/run!

[John Miliunas]

John, just scrap what you have and put in an escalator! :D Then someone else can worry about designing an appropriate rise/run!

Escalator??? Heck with that, Jason: Save the footprint and go with an elevator!!!:D You know...One of the cool glass ones. Why, it would only cost about 3 times what the house is worth!:D

Anyhow, I sincerely appreciate all the additional input on this project! It'll be interesting, to say the least!:) :cool:

[Mark Singer]

John, a fire pole is the answer:confused: Doesn't take much space and it will do wonders for your biseps

[Andy Hoyt]

John, a fire pole is the answer:confused: Doesn't take much space and it will do wonders for your biseps

Be fun getting back up stairs!

[John Miliunas]

John, a fire pole is the answer:confused: Doesn't take much space and it will do wonders for your biseps

Yeah, but then I'd have to still install a dumb-waiter to get my late-night snacks up there!!!:D :cool: