VFD Wiring help

[Jim Riseborough]

Bit of a pickle on how to get my jointer running with a VFD. Single phase in, 3 phase out. Wire it up, VFD works fine, starts up, but the jointer just growls at me and only trys to spin.

I havent got into the jointer, but it can be wired 460. Would it do what its doing if it was wired for 460?

Could it be I have to switch one of the hots coming out of the VFD?

355162

[Adam Herman]

it appears you are running the 220v VFD on 110? What is the specific model of the vfd and how many hp is the jointer? also, i would open up the shield on the motor and check the wiring for 460/220 there. should be a sticker showing what to do on the inside, or a diagram on the motor plate.

if i remember correctly, the ones made for 110 input are the smaller case size. i have an fm50 220v input on a drill press. the order of the wires going to the motor should not matter, swaping them should reverse the motor. (you can set motor direction in the VFD as well)

[Jim Riseborough]

it appears you are running the 220v VFD on 110? What is the specific model of the vfd and how many hp is the jointer? also, i would open up the shield on the motor and check the wiring for 460/220 there. should be a sticker showing what to do on the inside, or a diagram on the motor plate.

if i remember correctly, the ones made for 110 input are the smaller case size. i have an fm50 220v input on a drill press. the order of the wires going to the motor should not matter, swaping them should reverse the motor. (you can set motor direction in the VFD as well)

It's 220 single phase in, and 220 3 phase out. I'm going with the theory it's wired for 440 thus not starting

[Malcolm McLeod]

It's 220 single phase in, and 220 3 phase out. I'm going with the theory it's wired for 440 thus not starting

From your photo, you need to move the incoming N (white wire) to the L3(N) terminal on the drive. The incoming G (bare copper) should be on another terminal, but I don't have the manual, so not sure which - - maybe the P terminal? The G (ground) terminal could even be on the bottom? Regardless, it should be well marked in green and have the 'earth' symbol on it - same for NEMA and IEC .

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Edit: I found a FM50 manual, but doesn't seem to match your setup. It shows the incoming G is tied to the motor fame G and landed on a G-lug inside the chassis on the heat sink. If you don't have such a lug inside, then I'd put a ring terminal on both the incoming G and the motor frame G, then insert the chassis mounting bolt into the chassis, then thru both ring terminals, and then fasten all into whatever structure you plan for VDF mounting.

[Jim Riseborough]

From your photo, you need to move the incoming N (white wire) to the L3(N) terminal on the drive. The incoming G (bare copper) should be on another terminal, but I don't have the manual, so not sure which - - maybe the P terminal? The G (ground) terminal could even be on the bottom? Regardless, it should be well marked in green and have the 'earth' symbol on it - same for NEMA and IEC .

****************
Edit: I found a FM50 manual, but doesn't seem to match your setup. It shows the incoming G is tied to the motor fame G and landed on a G-lug inside the chassis on the heat sink. If you don't have such a lug inside, then I'd put a ring terminal on both the incoming G and the motor frame G, then insert the chassis mounting bolt into the chassis, then thru both ring terminals, and then fasten all into whatever structure you plan for VDF mounting.

Thats just the way my 220 is wired. Its two hots and a ground, producing my 220V.

Will be diving into the control box and motor later this week to see if wired 440V.

[Matt Day]

Regardless, Malcolm is right. Your ground is wrong - it should be connected to the bottom left terminal (there's a silver screw there for ground). Check the manual.

I have 3 FM50's.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Malcolm is right. You're using a ground wire as a neutral, which is a serious safety hazard. Your two hots should go to L1 and L3. L2 is unused (it's just physically located there because they likely use the same injection molds to make a 3-phase input version and they didn't bother to remake it for the single-phase version). Your ground wire gets hooked to some piece of exposed metal on the VFD (maybe one of the mounting holes has a metal insert to allow you to tie the ground wire to it using a ring terminal).

P and R terminals are for a braking resistor. DEFINITELY do NOT connect your ground to those :)

It's not working because you've essentially wired it with 120V. One of your hot legs is connected to L2, which goes nowhere.

If the motor is wired for the wrong voltage, it should still spin.

Flipping any of the 3-phase output wires should result in the motor changing direction. You can't connect the 3-phase output incorrectly in any way - any combination is valid and will work, and if the combination you pick results in the motor spinning the wrong direction, simply flip any 2 wires, and it will switch the direction of rotation.

[Malcolm McLeod]

- - maybe the P terminal?



P and R terminals are for a braking resistor. DEFINITELY do NOT connect your ground to those :)


Oops!:o I thought maybe the P could be 'PE' (Potential Earth) - for a manufacturer too cheap to engrave the 'E' in the molds.

Looking closer at the photo, I see what looks like metallic inserts in the mounting holes at the bottom edge. This is likely where the all the G leads need to tie together.

[Adam Herman]

mine came with a little tab for ground wires that screws to one of the mounting holes. I would switch out the white for red or label the cord as that could trip someone else up in the future.

[Malcolm McLeod]

mine came with a little tab for ground wires that screws to one of the mounting holes. I would switch out the white for red or label the cord as that could trip someone else up in the future.

Good point -- the traditional method for residential electrician to flag a white wire as 'hot' (rather than neutral), is to wrap 4-6" of each end in black electrical tape. This applies mostly to romex where you can't very well pull in a new red or black wire. But if you're running single conductors, then by all means use red.

Edit: And while we're talking colors, the expected color standard for the 3-phase wires to the motor is Black/Red/Blue (T1/T2/T3) if using 230VAC. For 480VAC, its Brown/Orange/Yellow (aka 'BOY').

[Jim Riseborough]

Good point -- the traditional method for residential electrician to flag a white wire as 'hot' (rather than neutral), is to wrap 4-6" of each end in black electrical tape. This applies mostly to romex where you can't very well pull in a new red or black wire. But if you're running single conductors, then by all means use red.

Edit: And while we're talking colors, the expected color standard for the 3-phase wires to the motor is Black/Red/Blue (T1/T2/T3) if using 230VAC. For 480VAC, its Brown/Orange/Yellow (aka 'BOY').

In the wall at the receptical its marked. I am using cord to the VFD.

[Mike Heidrick]

What settings did you set on the VFD?

[Jim Riseborough]

What settings did you set on the VFD?

60Hz, 5 second on/off start up shut down. Not sure the start up/shut down matters, I have a on/off switch on the jointer for the motor

[Dan Friedrichs]

Jim:

1) "I have a on/off switch on the jointer for the motor". Not sure what you mean by this, but just to be clear: you can NOT have a switch between the 3-phase VFD output and the motor. Flipping a switch on the 3-phase output of the VFD while it's running is very likely to destroy it.

2) Did you try moving your white wire to the L3 terminal? I absolutely guarantee this is the problem.

[Matt Day]

The L3 isn't necessarily the problem. I know because I've had my hot lines erroneously connected to L1 and L2 and they've worked just fine. Factorymation tech told me today that's not a problem, but in rare cases it will throw a low voltage error. I'm going to switch to L1/L3 as recommended here and by Factorymation, but I just wanted to point out that the L3 likely isn't the problem - it's that the ground is connected to a line in terminal (L3).

[Bill Dufour]

For normal hosue and shop wiring there are only three colors or maybe four. White is neutral, not used for 240. Green or bare for ground. All other colors are hot.
Of course for light switches there can be violations of these rules, by code.
If you are using a white wire for hot ... mark it black with a sharpie, wrap electrical tape around it(not code since they will fade or will peel off) or my favorite slip some shrink wrap over it. No need to heat the shrink wrap.
That existing switch can be used as low voltage control switch wired back to the vfd but not used as a power switch.
Bill D.

[Jim Riseborough]

Jim:

1) "I have a on/off switch on the jointer for the motor". Not sure what you mean by this, but just to be clear: you can NOT have a switch between the 3-phase VFD output and the motor. Flipping a switch on the 3-phase output of the VFD while it's running is very likely to destroy it.

2) Did you try moving your white wire to the L3 terminal? I absolutely guarantee this is the problem.

1. This is for a jointer, it has a switch. I connected the wire from the jointer to the VFD ( basically what had a plug) and it goes to through the switch on the jointer. I will bypass it, or to test, hold it down when starting the VFD
2. I have not tried that. Seems #1 might be the problem

I added a wiring diagram and what my understanding is.

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[Jim Riseborough]

For normal hosue and shop wiring there are only three colors or maybe four. White is neutral, not used for 240. Green or bare for ground. All other colors are hot.
Of course for light switches there can be violations of these rules, by code.
If you are using a white wire for hot ... mark it black with a sharpie, wrap electrical tape around it(not code since they will fade or will peel off) or my favorite slip some shrink wrap over it. No need to heat the shrink wrap.
That existing switch can be used as low voltage control switch wired back to the vfd but not used as a power switch.
Bill D.
Thanks, will bypass the switch, and see if I can get it wired to the low voltage side.

[Bill Dufour]

I assume the switch in question is a low voltage setup controlling a motor starter. If so look for a transformer. There should be a choice of input or output taps depending on supplied voltage. That should be correct for the way the motor is wired if it worked at the old shop. maybe that wil ltel lyou how the motor is wired as far as voltage.
For now I would open up the contactor and figure out how to hold the contacts closed by using dry stick of wood. Jam the contacts closed then try the vfd.
If it is wired for 440 the heaters will soon overheat if you convert the motor down to 240. So you would have to replace them if you were to use that switch as a power switch.
Code allows you to use a VFD as a overload/disconnect with no other protection other then a breaker in a panel somewhere. So bypassing the safety overloads is not a safety issue.
Bill D.

Just realized your problem could be bad contacts in the overloads, dust/dirt so contactor does not fully close, wrong coil voltage so it does not close all the way. So your problem may be the VFD, the switch or the motor.

[Bill Dufour]

Anothe rthing I try to do when I work on a big motor is add a twist lock connector on the final power cord to the motor. That way it is easy to pull the motor if it ever needs bearings etc. It also allows me to make the motor connections on the bench not standing on my head. Finally it allows me to unplug the motor and use a meter to see if the switch gear is supplying power to the motor. But a VFD does not like to be powered up with no load. So this method is not perfect.
Bill D.

[Matt Day]

1) I'm no electrical expert, but is that a wiring diagram for 3 phase input instead of single phase?

2) Have you moved the bare ground wire from L3 yet?

[Jim Riseborough]

1) I'm no electrical expert, but is that a wiring diagram for 3 phase input instead of single phase?

2) Have you moved the bare ground wire from L3 yet?


1. Yes. I have a 3 phase motor. I am using the VFD to power it.
2. No. Havent had time to work on it lately.

[Matt Day]

I know it's a 3 phase motor, otherwise why would you have a VFD on a jointer.

My post said 3 phase INPUT for the wiring diagram; as in 3 phase in, 3 phase out, instead of 1 phase in 3 phase out.

Also, looking at the picture from your first post, your switch needs to wired directly to the VFD, to the green bar of contacts on the front. Before you worry about a switch at all, just hook the motor up and use the on/off button on the front of the vfd to test.

Once you change the ground let us know what happens.

[Jim Riseborough]

I know it's a 3 phase motor, otherwise why would you have a VFD on a jointer.

My post said 3 phase INPUT for the wiring diagram; as in 3 phase in, 3 phase out, instead of 1 phase in 3 phase out.

Also, looking at the picture from your first post, your switch needs to wired directly to the VFD, to the green bar of contacts on the front. Before you worry about a switch at all, just hook the motor up and use the on/off button on the front of the vfd to test.

Once you change the ground let us know what happens.

The wiring diagram is direct from Powermatic, not anything I produced. Its assuming that you have 3 phase coming in, which I will/do once the VFD is working.

Your right on the switch, I am going to wire direct to the motor, and bypass the existing switch and transformer in the machine, and then use the controls on the VFD to run it. Im going to hook them up as I show on the diagram, direct to the motor, and then use the switch into my VFD on the 12v side.

Changing the ground will happen, but I dont think that it will work until I bypass the switch.



Thanks
Jim

[Matt Day]

Gotcha about the PM wiring diagram. I faile to read it all and thought it was your vfd wiring diagram. Still, I'm totally confused about your last post but I am likely not as well versed as some.

My setups are:
-220V single phase into VFD
-220v wired 3 phase Motor to vfd
-Switch (only 1) to VFD.

That's it.

For the switch, it can be as simple as a light switch and speaker wire.

[Jim Riseborough]

Gotcha about the PM wiring diagram. I faile to read it all and thought it was your vfd wiring diagram. Still, I'm totally confused about your last post but I am likely not as well versed as some.

My setups are:
-220V single phase into VFD
-220v wired 3 phase Motor to vfd
-Switch (only 1) to VFD.

That's it.

For the switch, it can be as simple as a light switch and speaker wire.

Currently I have it wired direct from my VFD to the plug on the jointer. Based on discussions,

1. My ground and hot input on the VFD are wrong
2. I cannot use the switch that is on the jointer.

I am going to change the ground and hot as discussed, and then wire direct to the motor, and by pass the existing switch. I will then rewire that switch to control the VFD on the low voltage side.

[Jim Riseborough]

It works! All I had to do was bypass the magnetic switch the jointer comes with, and wire direct to the motor.

Now, Would mounting the VFD inside the stand be ok, or keep it outside?

[Matt Day]

Great news!

The vfd should have some air flow so it doesn't overheat.

[Bill Dufour]

It may be that the old switch does not work. The operator may have bad contacts, coil is burned out, bad power contacts etc. Or the switch may be fine and just the VFD did not like that switch. If you like the switches location I would reuse then operator.
On many tools I like to add an extra off switch on the back where I may be standing when I pull a board off. On my tablesaw, since I added a off switch I can hit with my knee, I do not think I have turned it off by hand more then once a year.
Bill

[Malcolm McLeod]

It works! All I had to do was bypass the magnetic switch the jointer comes with, and wire direct to the motor.

Now, Would mounting the VFD inside the stand be ok, or keep it outside?

Success!! ...Glad to hear it.

VFDs do need air to keep cool; its why they have the louvered top/bottom and heat sinks. I'd recommend you mount it in a convenient spot to blow the dust out occasionally. But, since it seems like you don't need access to the on-board controls, this can be someplace where its out of 'getting-whacked-with-lumber' range.

[Jim Riseborough]

Thanks for all the help. I mounted it below the infeed bed, and used the 12V switch that the VFD has built in to the original switch location. It cuts really nice, just need to tweek it a bit to have it cut flawlessly.