Laguna 18/36 or PM 3520B

[Greg Parrish]

Have been looking at these 2 models. I've found these prices:

New laguna $2,250 when on sale at woodcraft 220vversion

Used powermatic $3000 asking price. 2008 build date. Looks in good shape in pictures. I think this is high price wise. Maybe should be $2,500?

new powermatic is on sale this weekend at my nearest woodcraft for $3,599 but that really out of the budget by too much.


I played with both a little at woodcraft yesterday but didn't use them. The PM seems to have a little nicer build refinement when it comes to things like the hand wheels, etc but they both feel stout. I want to be able to turn large pieces of cut green wood and the 24" models and brands like robust and one way are above the budget now.

Any thoughts? Is the PM worth paying more than the Laguna for used? I'm a long time from retirement so I won't say this is my last lathe but it should hold me untill I buy my forever lathe one day.

[John K Jordan]

I've never used the laguna so I can't compare. I bought a PM3520b in very good condition for $3000 but it included the bed extension.

It's hard to imagine being unhappy with the PM if the price was right.

JKJ

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. I think the PM would be awesome but I like everything I've seen about the Laguna too. Only seen one problem so far which was a broken hand wheel which looks to be cast. And I keep reading about bad customer service but I think a lot of that is people repeating what they heard.

Anyway I'm not sure what to do. Most people selling old pm3520's seem to think they are gold as they want what I think is too much for used.

[Josh Bowman]

I bellied up to a Laguna at the Nashville symposium and found it a bit low for me. One other thing to consider is the PM is proven concerning parts and the set up is pretty simple. Also manufacturers build plenty for the PM, not certain of the Laguna. I have a Laguna bandsaw and love it....but most stuff for generic bandsaws don't fit it.....even blades are a little odd.

[Chris Wdowiak]

I had a great experience with Laguna Customer service last month. They were able to resolve my issue with my Revo 10-16 quickly and to my liking.

[Alan Trout]

I have used and demoed many time on the 3520. I have always found the 3520 to be a bit cumbersome with working on the headstock side of the lathe which I actually do quite often. That is one of the reason I have an American Beauty as my big lathe in my shop. I like the tapered nose on the Laguna for that reason. Everyone that I have talked with that has the Laguna really seems to like them. I also like having a fairly long bed as well which is another plus on the Laguna. Either are good machines.

[John Keeton]

Recently, there was a thread that presented nearly the exact same scenario - buying the Laguna Revo vs. a used PM and if I recall correctly, for about the same money. You may want to review that thread for additional responses.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?251693-New-Revo-1836-vs-10-year-old-3520b

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks guys. All helpful posts.

John I was following that other post and also have your review PDFs printed right next to me. :)

very tough decision. At 6'1" the PM might be at a better height for me but I didn't get a chance to actually use them to see.

To to further muddy the water the grizzly g0799 is in the same price range at about $3,500 shipped.

[Jason Edwards]

I've looked at all of them and I don't think there is that big of a difference unless you nit-pick. One thing you have observed is the PM's hold their value well and if you buy a used one at that price you'll certainly get near to that amount out of it when you sell it, so long as it's in reasonable shape. You'll loose at least some money buying a new one when you sell.

My suggestion: Flip a coin, heads PM, tails Laguna. Then don't look at the coin. Your heart will tell your head if you want heads or tails. Then buy it, and have fun turning.

[Pat Scott]

My suggestion: Flip a coin, heads PM, tails Laguna. Then don't look at the coin. Your heart will tell your head if you want heads or tails. Then buy it, and have fun turning.

LOVE IT! Great idea Jason.

[Reed Gray]

Biggest difference between the two is the headstock design, well, the PM is most likely a bit more heavy duty. I turned on a 3520A for about 8 years. I have spend a small pert of a day on the Laguna. Headstock design: With the PM, the headstock spindle comes right out of the headstock case, on the Laguna, it is in a big cone. What this does is extend your mounting place out several more inches off of the actual headstock. I don't really care for that. Main reason is kind of like turning short vs. turning long hollow forms. The longer ones tend to vibrate more than shorter ones because they are farther off the headstock. Since I green turn to final thickness, working from the headstock side is not an issue. The PM does (or did have) a notch in the headstock to give a little extra clearance. You could use extended jaws as well which shouldn't be a problem as you are only finish turning and not roughing when you would want the piece closer to the mount.

I guess one other thing about the Laguna is their portability set up. I always slide the headstock down to the end so I can stand up straight to turn bowls. That is why they have sliding headstocks. The mounting brackets on the Laguna are in the way for this type of turning, and to me pose a trip potential.

If the lathe is too short, you can put it up on a 2 by 4, or a 4 by 4 without much effort. The Robust has telescoping legs so you can go up or down.

robo hippy

[Neal DaMommio]

Reed why would the longer quill and longer distance between the front and rear bearings equate to more vibration? The chuck is not a greater distance from the front bearing and as far as I can see the that distance would be the issue.

Neal

[John Keeton]

Reed why would the longer quill and longer distance between the front and rear bearings equate to more vibration? The chuck is not a greater distance from the front bearing and as far as I can see the that distance would be the issue.

Neal
I agree. That was the same point I attempted to make in the earlier thread referenced in my previous post in this thread. In fact, all other things being equal, I think a longer shaft between the fulcrum points might increase stability.

[Reed Gray]

You could look at it as 2 levers. One is from the bed up to the headstock spindle for height, and the other is how far off the headstock mount/base of the head stock the chuck mounts. In the PM, my chuck was about 4 inches off the headstock. With the Robust, it is about 6 inches. Looks like the Revo is more than that, but haven't measured that one. So, the more it sticks out from the bottom of the headstock mount/footprint on the bed, the more difficult it is to hold steady. Using the tailstock helps to steady it, but once the tailstock is removed, then you get some vibration. Hope that makes some sense.

robo hippy

[Roger Chandler]

I agree. That was the same point I attempted to make in the earlier thread referenced in my previous post in this thread. In fact, all other things being equal, I think a longer shaft between the fulcrum points might increase stability.
The Robust AB, and Oneway 2436 also have a cone shaped spindle housing.......at least semi-cone shaped compared to the PM 3520b. With a solid steel spindle housing, I do not see an issue with vibration being induced. I agree that an added length on the spindle with more distance between bearings would bring more stability versus a shorter spindle. The same principle of mechanical dynamics on a better ride being delivered by a longer wheelbase on a vehicle vs, a short wheelbase.

[Greg Parrish]

is it any longer though? To me the length looks about the same with just the housing being differently shaped. I see the shape of the laguna helping have more access but I guess I also can see the boxier shape of the PM having more mass or something. Does the PM have the same sized and number of bearings?


Also, how do the older PM 3520A and 3520B compare? Was there an older 3520 before the A? Was it ever made in the US?

Thanks for the continued info.

[John Keeton]

Not sure about the size of the bearings, but it is my understanding the PM may have three spindle bearings. The Laguna has two according to my recollection.

[John Keeton]

You could look at it as 2 levers. One is from the bed up to the headstock spindle for height, and the other is how far off the headstock mount/base of the head stock the chuck mounts. In the PM, my chuck was about 4 inches off the headstock. With the Robust, it is about 6 inches. Looks like the Revo is more than that, but haven't measured that one. So, the more it sticks out from the bottom of the headstock mount/footprint on the bed, the more difficult it is to hold steady. Using the tailstock helps to steady it, but once the tailstock is removed, then you get some vibration. Hope that makes some sense.

robo hippyReed, it is 1" from the face of the headstock to the back face of my chuck. I use SN2 chucks, which are 2.75" deep, so the work is 3.75" from the face of the headstock, which appears to be the location of the foremost bearing.

It would seem the first lever you mention is simply the swing of the lathe and isn't relevant to design features - only to the extent the swing is different. In this case, that force would be greater for the PM as it is a 20" swing vs. 18" for the Laguna. However, if turning off the end, all of that changes.

On another thing you mentioned, I turn off the end quite often and I am not sure what your are referring to with "the mounting brackets." But, I am using the bed extension and toolrest, so that may make a difference. I have found it very comfortable to use in that fashion.

[Robert Henrickson]

I have used and demoed many time on the 3520. I have always found the 3520 to be a bit cumbersome with working on the headstock side of the lathe which I actually do quite often. That is one of the reason I have an American Beauty as my big lathe in my shop. I like the tapered nose on the Laguna for that reason. Everyone that I have talked with that has the Laguna really seems to like them. I also like having a fairly long bed as well which is another plus on the Laguna. Either are good machines.


Exactly one of the reasons I am replacing my PM -- access around the headstock.

[Neal DaMommio]

John what Reed is saying is not how far from the headstock but how far from the base of the headstock or where the headstock meets the lathe bed. I believe that is the lever he is talking about. I really don't think that would have much of an effect but in all truth a sliding headstock in general is an easy way to introduce vibration. Personally I feel the convenience of a slider out ways the possibility of adding vibration. The Revo does lock in place with authority and I haven't noticed any unusual vibration.

As far as distance between bearings it is hard to tell if there is much of a difference.

355146 355147

[Don Jarvie]

I looked at the Laguna and at 6'2" I needed the riser blocks to have the height so it was comfortable. The height of the PM was better for me. I wanted the heavier lathe so I bought the PM.
Both are quality machines so it comes to personal preference.

[Greg Parrish]

What is the spindle and bed height of each? I can't find that spec. Thanks.

[Neal DaMommio]

Greg it is 44" to center of spindle on the PM and 41.5'" on the Laguna. I have the pdf manual of both would you like them?

[Greg Parrish]

Greg it is 44" to center of spindle on the PM and 41.5'" on the Laguna. I have the pdf manual of both would you like them?

That would be awesome. My email is txbonds at yahoo dot com. Thank you so much.

[Greg Parrish]

Think I've decided on the 220v version of the Laguna 18/36. Just have to reach out to woodcraft. Thanks again for the feedback.

[Reed Gray]

John, I was measuring to the face of my chuck jaws where the bowl base or top would sit when turning.

The swing adds to the length of the vertical lever, so more force generated at the headstock/ways joint. I guess the main thing this means is that with a sliding headstock, the more swing there is, the bigger footprint I would want on that joint. The diameter of the piece you are turning also is a consideration, so less stress on a 6 inch bowl, and a lot more on an 18 inch bowl, and if you are turning a table top, then still more, and you have to figure in rpm as well.

The mounting brackets are the feet that the portability wheels mount on which stick out to the side and are bolted on. I am used to legs on the ground and nothing protruding out beyond them. The portability for my Robust is jack it up, and clip in wheels, lower the jack, then do the other end. So, for one that sits in place and is moved very seldom. At our local Woodcraft store, we use a Laguna for our demo lathe. It has the wheels on full time. For me, they are in the way...

The 3520 was at first called the Olsolnick, lathe after Rudy Olsolnick who was instrumental in the design of it. As near as I can tell, it was the first sliding headstock lathe made. The first A models may have been made in the US, but that was about the time production went over seas and Jet and PM merged. My A was one of the first models and had a small electric fan under the heat baffles on the underside of the phase converter. The pressure plate under the headstock was cast iron and it snapped while coring some black locust, and it is all metal now. Think I paid $2750 for mine. For a year or so, technical questions were forwarded to Tennessee to the original PM factory, which soon shut down. Speeds on the A were 0 to 1500 on low speed range, and 1 to 3000 in the high range, and it would go down to almost 0 before it shut off. The B model speed ranges were 50 to 1200 on the slow range, and 50 to 3200 on the high range, note here: not positive, but pretty sure as I demoed on one and found the low speed range too slow for my taste. I think they added a notch in the headstock by the spindle for access to the bottom of a reversed bowl. They enclosed the tailstock side, and added an electronic read out for rpm. I think they flattened out the top of the headstock so you could put stuff on it. Probably a few other things... Can't remember. I have had my Robust for almost 10 years, but again, can't really remember... CRS!!!

robo hippy

[John Keeton]

Think I've decided on the 220v version of the Laguna 18/36. Just have to reach out to woodcraft. Thanks again for the feedback.Good decision! I am sure you are going to love it.

[Greg Parrish]

Laguna 18/36 ordered this morning thanks to the 10% off sale. Had to use Wood werks out of Ohio as woodcraft isn't showing the sale online. Saved me sales tax though. Didn't order any other items or accessories yet as I will need to go one item at a time. Will need a larger chuck and will eventually want the extension, one or two of the spot lights, and maybe the wheels. Plan to keep this one a while so any upgrade would not happen for years and years. Talking like when I'm ready to buy the Robust AB or something. :)

any tips on which chuck size and model works best on the laguna? Thanks.

[John Keeton]

Greg, you may want to start another thread regarding the chuck question. Folks tend not to return to a thread for anything other than interest in the original topic, i.e., the comparison of the Laguna vs. PM. I think you would get more responses and some better info.

[Justin Stephen]

I'm a happy owner of a 3520B and have been for a few years now. However, if the 18/36 had been on the market when I bought my PM, I would probably have bought the 18/36.