Video makes me want to pull my hair out...

[Van Huskey]

I tried 3 times to post the URL for the video at the time I wanted but it keeps defaulting back to the beginning, the relevant portion is from 9:50 to about 17:00.


https://youtu.be/pYIUkVA8_rk?t=580

I generally like Marc but really? I get it people consider the bandsaw an ancillary machine, even if one does keep a couple around, and I know "Friday Live" is basically off the cuff but it just basically reinforces the slap any ole blade on it and it will work mentality which is part of the reason the bandsaw is often viewed as ancillary. I doubt the conversation would have been similar if the topic had been table saw blades. OK I have vented now.

[Doug Hepler]

Van,

My BS is my primary saw. I don't have any hair to spare so I had to stop watching this video. Such casual, confident ignorance is really annoying. Issues like the correct TPI for the thickness of the workpiece and the minimum radius you can cut with a BS blade of given width are fundamental, not esoteric, information. They deserve a modicum of respect. AND the blade on the 14" saw appeared to be seriously out in front of the guides even if it was not tensioned.

No slam on Marc but definitely a slam on the quality of information in this part of the video.
Doug.

[David Kumm]

I often think the guys with sponsors have to sell out somewhat to survive. No mention of the shortcomings of the value engineered machinery or tooling is allowed. Guys who may be great woodworkers have to shill for the sponsors products and who may not have a clue as to how a competitors products might be an improvement. I miss the old David Marks shop where old and new were both showcased although even his old stuff wasn't top shelf. I don't blame the teachers, I blame the viewer who doesn't question. I remember a million years ago when I saw Norm's Delta DJ 15 jointer and thought it was the ultimate. Bought a DJ20 which is OK, but soon found out that there are bigger flatter and better options for the same cash or less. Slippery slope. Dave

[Erik Loza]

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you've never really had need to use a hammer (odd as that might be to you and me), nothing looks like a nail. We're all vitims of our own perspective, even when that perspective might be quite narrow.

in my new gig, I have to make do with a crappy Jet table saw and coming off a slider, it's pretty terrible, to be honest. But the shop guys think its awesome.

Erik

[Victor Robinson]

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you've never really had need to use a hammer (odd as that might be to you and me), nothing looks like a nail. We're all vitims of our own perspective, even when that perspective might be quite narrow.

in my new gig, I have to make do with a crappy Jet table saw and coming off a slider, it's pretty terrible, to be honest. But the shop guys think its awesome.

Erik

New gig?? Are you not selling Minimax anymore?

[Ben Rivel]

New gig?? Are you not selling Minimax anymore?I hadnt noticed him around for a while, was starting to wonder if something happened.

[Chris Hachet]

The bandsaw is wildly misunderstood and there is a lot of misinformation out there. I am a bandsaw novice jumping in with both feet and good information is often hard to find.

[Bryan Lisowski]

I like Marc, and have learned a lot from him, I watched this and didn't think to deep about it. He is trying to appeal to many people, some who have never used a bandsaw, so he may not get into the technical detail people with more experience know. I do know that this summer he will be doing a in depth video or 2 part series with Alex Snodgrass. I also believe he has a video on how to set up and tune a bandsaw on his free site.

[Jim Becker]

New gig?? Are you not selling Minimax anymore?

Erik is marketing some really kewel wood/millwork products after many years in the equipment business. He posted about it sometime ago. But he still contributes useful information on Euro machines and MiniMax in particular. Sam Blasco, also an SMC community member, is the MiniMax rep to go to for purchase or questions.

[Prashun Patel]

Ok, I'll bite. What's so wrong with the video?

He clearly appeals to people earlier on their learning curve. However, I find his advice to almost always be spot on, practical, and informed by his own experience. He's deliberate and conscious and thoughtful.

What specifically do you all object to here?

[Keith Hankins]

I watched the vid and don't get the issue? I think a bandsaw is a tool and it has its purpose but its that a tool. I have two a 17" with a carbide blade for resaw and it does that real well. Its tuned for that purpose. I also picked up a 14" 1934 delta for a song and have it set up with a small blade with carter stabilizer tuned for small curve cutting. I used the 17" for both for a long time but was a pain for the switch over and re-tuniing for what ever purpose I was using(sorry I'm lazy).

It still would not replace my TS in my opinion because there are tasks that it does well. Just like my TS55 track saw is really good at breaking ply down and I would not want to horse that big sheet up on the TS or think of using a BS for that purpose.

I have hand planes as well and where they are appropriate I use them.

I guess to me, if its a nail, then use the hammer, and if its a screw a screw driver.

Its all good. Cheers.

[John LoDico]

C'mon. It wasn't a bad video or explanation of bandsaws/blades.

[Ben Rivel]

There was nothing wrong with the information in the video guys, people who are or consider themselves to be bandsaw experts just get worked up when they see a super generic description or information given on something that has a lot more depth to it. But considering the source and who its intended audience is and the format of the delivery of said information it was done perfectly. Find some other stuff to hate on the internet, there is PLENTY more!

[Van Huskey]

Ok, I'll bite. What's so wrong with the video?

He clearly appeals to people earlier on their learning curve. However, I find his advice to almost always be spot on, practical, and informed by his own experience. He's deliberate and conscious and thoughtful.

What specifically do you all object to here?

I'll admit I regretted posting this even as I typed the OP, but I will attempt to add my point by point issues later today since I took the day off to work in the yard (spring hit a week ago here) and I am only taking a short break. Again, I like Marc and I like a lot of the content that he produces, I have his book and obviously watch some of his videos but as I heard each question recited my brain would lock onto two or three conventional wisdom points, not my kooky ideas or issues Duginski and Iturra vehemently disagree on, just the things you will see recited a dozen times in a bandsaw blade thread. Maybe it is unfair to Marc and my fewer hairs this morning is my own opinionated fault. In any case I'll get back to this later today and likely make more apologies then.

[Ray Selinger]

I think it's about expertise, or lack there of. One hand tool YT presenter was using a five gallon pail to get in the back door of his shop. He got a contactor to build a step with some other things. These things are dead simple, when I was pushing, my good carpenters did them in 3 hours, the young clowns in 6 hours. This guy is teaching classes !

[Chris Hachet]

I watched the vid and don't get the issue? I think a bandsaw is a tool and it has its purpose but its that a tool. I have two a 17" with a carbide blade for resaw and it does that real well. Its tuned for that purpose. I also picked up a 14" 1934 delta for a song and have it set up with a small blade with carter stabilizer tuned for small curve cutting. I used the 17" for both for a long time but was a pain for the switch over and re-tuniing for what ever purpose I was using(sorry I'm lazy).

It still would not replace my TS in my opinion because there are tasks that it does well. Just like my TS55 track saw is really good at breaking ply down and I would not want to horse that big sheet up on the TS or think of using a BS for that purpose.

I have hand planes as well and where they are appropriate I use them.

I guess to me, if its a nail, then use the hammer, and if its a screw a screw driver.

Its all good. Cheers.An astonishingly rational response, thank you for posting this actually. I am going to do the same thing with the larger/smaller band saw thing. One problem with older Deltas seems to be that everyone and his brother wants $800 on Craigslist for a well used 1970's version. For that kind of money, one could get a Rikon or Laguna almost....which will saw circles around the old Deltas.

Glad you were able to pick yours up cheaply.

[Prashun Patel]

Ray, I submit that Marc is not the usual YT presenter.His advice and methodology is so much in sync with mine that I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt even when he advertises Casper mattresses or Qualo rings, or dumbs down the bandsaw advice for a broader audience. Although I will say I bet the stock blade that shipped with his Powermatic is a might bit better than the stock blade that shipped with my Grizzly's. Those cut more squirrelly than a treefulla acorns.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I agree that the video is keyed for use by a certain level of expertise or inexperience if you will. So what? Often manuals and videos are intentionally made to help those with certain levels of skills because skills taught at a higher level might not be helpful to a large population of lesser skilled people.

It's easy to be critical. Requires no skills at all.

[Mike Manning]

Van,
For what it's worth I didn't think your comments were out of bounds. I took it as this is one of your pet peeves. Watched part of the video in the section you indicated and even being a novice band saw user I felt he was a bit nonchalant with some of his explanations. I also found myself wondering if he really know the band saw well.

[Art Mann]

I can't wait for Van to offer his explanation of why the video is so bad. I tried to watch the section to which he referred but got so bored with it that I quit watching. I didn't see where Mark was wrong but I would have preferred more usable content.

[Edwin Santos]

I couldn't marshal the attention necessary to make it all the way through this video. Van seems a high level and highly knowledgeable purist to me and I think I get his original point.

Marc the video personality seems to have fashioned his own blended cocktail that's part woodworking, part reality TV, part comedy, part talk-show type banter and possibly a few dashes of other condiments. Like others have commented, I don't think he is tailoring his content for the hardcore purists or any of the sub specialties in woodworking (think vintage tool fans, neanderthals, disciples of Japanese joinery, etc). I think he's going after generalists and enthusiastic hobbyists of the ilk that Rockler and Woodcraft target. I get the feeling he's quite knowledgeable and could hang with the purists if he chose to do so. I say this based on this video, I haven't seen much of his other stuff.

I see some evidence of sponsorships, but I can't believe it's a path to riches, so kudos to him for putting in the energy and trying to find a way to make a living in a field he's passionate about. If you're not substantially in his target audience, or you don't care for his humor, he could test your patience. Of course he's not forcing anyone to watch him.

I think of him like a Food Network chef, which is not a criticism by the way. They've been to culinary school and worked in the pro trenches, but their shows are aimed at amateurs, where technical depth is limited and entertainment value is a factor. Doesn't mean they're not knowledgeable, and doesn't mean they don't have some good content, but a pro chef who is operating at a high level of culinary technique, chasing a Michelin star, will think they're a joke.

So there you have it, in one post I have complimented Van and defended Marc at the same time. Everyone leaves a winner today.

[Victor Robinson]

I know Van knows this, but it's worth stating again for the folks that are less familiar with Marc - the offcuts channel is for live chats and off-the-cuff advice, and it's relatively new for him. If you want to see Marc really teach about a given machine or technique, watch any of his 200+ videos he's produced over the past 10 years. One of his earliest videos is a bandsaw setup video, which I doubt is "expert" level, but it probably won't bother folks as much as this video seemed to. If you want to hang out with him and "shoot the ----" so-to-speak, watch the Friday Live / offcuts segments. Those live Q&A sessions are basically light-hearted fun and really meant for the community built around his free and paid sites.

This all being said I have absolutely no problem with one of this forum's resident bandsaw lovers/experts spouting off about what causes his hair to fall out. We all rant and rave about different things that bug us - certainly not a public indictment of Marc, nor should Van feel he can't say what's on his mind. I do think Van should start a "bandsaw lovin" YouTube channel. I'd watch.

[Edwin Santos]

I know Van knows this, but it's worth stating again for the folks that are less familiar with Marc - the offcuts channel is for live chats and off-the-cuff advice, and it's relatively new for him. If you want to see Marc really teach about a given machine or technique, watch any of his 200+ videos he's produced over the past 10 years..

Very good, thanks for explaining that.

[Van Huskey]

I kinda wanted to let this die since it was just talking outloud, but I said I would address it so...

First, it was more about lack of information than misinformation.

I like Marc and have enjoyed a lot of his content over the years.

As I alluded to I know Friday Live is basically off the cuff and would have given him even more slack except he had 3 of the questions printed out before hand so he knew he was talking about BS blades. Plus, keep in mind his chosen profession is that of a woodworking educator not simply a content creator there for the subs/likes and subsequent endorsements.

In the end I suppose it has more to do with the fact the whole thing comes off as use more or less any blade and that frustrates me because mystery and lack of attention to bandsaw tooling is one reason people often develop the impression it is just an odd duck machine that you should have around for that once a year cut you can't make easily with anything else.

Some of the things that specifically bugged me:

1. No caveats with the Woodslicer. No mention of how fast it dulls or that it can't be used for any curve cutting really.

2. No caveats with the discussion of carbide blades. First thing is always to determine if a particular saw will tension one, given the price for the RK was $150 from the person that posed the question it could very well be a 14" cast saw.

3. He could have helped the person with the match re cost effectiveness since he had all the numbers and just needed to add a reasonable number of times a carbide blade will outlast a carbon blade (and should define what a "regular" blade is). At the time I heard it my quick math said after 4 years the carbide blade will save money AND give a better finish in the mean time.

4. When he discussed wider blades he said something like "some people say" and listed the possibility of greater stability. 30 seconds to explain the very real benefits of beam strength and 20 more to give the caveat of within a saws tension ability. He further mentions people suggesting higher friction with wider blades. Blade width doesn;t increase friction since the backer behind the teeth should not contact the wood but ride in the wake of the kerf (save curve cutting but then only the trailing edge should touch the wood). Increased friction is a result of increased teeth rake and tearing out more wood. Perpetuating a myth I hadn;t even heard.

Now for a little different tack. I think Marc is very good at what he does, better than most youtube woodworking educators, many of them or simply look what I did or what can you do with 2x4s and pallet wood (both have their place but don't hold my attention, except to watch them while the news is on with the video muted while I scan their shop in the background for ideas). He has some great free tutorials, one that comes to mind is the router based inlay "class". I took Ng's class a year or two before Marc's video came out and honestly you get 70% of William's class for free. Also his Guild classes are excellent and are great skill builders. So The Wood Whisperer good...

I hate when people use the word bandsaw expert in the same sentence with my name, I am just a guy that really likes bandsaws and have for 30 years and in the course of that time has owned 40 or so different saws and used gods know how many blades. There are some things I consider myself an expert at but those are things I spent many years in school and a career worth of time honing and none of it remotely has to do with bandsaws.

Finally, I don't mind the criticism at all, I was thinking (typing) out loud I don't expect people to agree with the thoughtful things that come out of my mouth much less the half baked off the cuff stuff. Oh and before anyone thinks that I think I could do better, I know I couldn't. The only way I could keep people engaged in a bandsaw blade discussion on camera would be to cut off a finger each minute or show a kitten playing with a hippo while I droned on.