Fiber laser engraver recommendations

[Steve Utick]

Been lurking here for a bit. I've seen it come up numerous times where people have said you can get a fairly decent Chinese fiber laser for around $5000 delivered to the U.S. However, I've never seen anything about a vendor name related to that. Any recommendations of a vendor to speak to if I'd like to add a fiber laser to my set of tools?

Thanks!

[John Lifer]

Base màchine is about that. Plus customs and fees. And add if you want a rotary and other lens. Ray fine. Give Blanca a shout and she will give you as good a quote as you can get. Satisfied customer. I've a CO2 laser from them and a 20watt fiber hopefully shipping this next week.
Web: www.rayfinetech.com
Email​​​:​ yanblanca@yahoo.com

[Rodne Gold]

I got mine from Longtai liaocheng lasers
https://longtailaser.en.alibaba.com/
Speak to Yarde Feng there
Skype yardefeng
Excellent machine ..20w .. if you can spring a little more , try for a 30w

[David Somers]

I would also recommend Ray Fine and Blanca. I have a CO2 laser and a CNC from them and am very pleased with both the machines and with Blanca as a sales person and also a quasi tech person. I do not have one of their fiber's though.

Let us know who you finally choose and how you like the machine once you have one.

BTW. I assume you are aware of the various kinds of fibers available and their strengths and weaknesses depending on the work you want them to do and materials you want them to work on?

Dave

[Steve Utick]

I would also recommend Ray Fine and Blanca. I have a CO2 laser and a CNC from them and am very pleased with both the machines and with Blanca as a sales person and also a quasi tech person. I do not have one of their fiber's though.

Let us know who you finally choose and how you like the machine once you have one.

BTW. I assume you are aware of the various kinds of fibers available and their strengths and weaknesses depending on the work you want them to do and materials you want them to work on?

Dave

We've had numerous customers contact us about Stainless stuff, plus have some of our own projects with Stainless that are obviously easier on a fiber laser than messing with cermark. The main thing is to have more metal capabilities than we have now.

I've been reading up some on the Fibers, but obviously don't know everything. Would you be able to expand on the different models, capabilities, etc?

Thanks.

[David Somers]

Steve,

Without direct Fiber experience on my part I won't attempt to answer that. But there are lots of folks here with fibers of various sorts who should be able to help.

Mainly I wanted to be sure you realized there were various flavors of fibers in case you hadn't gotten that far yet.

[Kev Williams]

We've had numerous customers contact us about Stainless stuff, plus have some of our own projects with Stainless that are obviously easier on a fiber laser than messing with cermark.
Thanks.
Forgive me for being blunt, but in a word: NOPE. If you're expecting a fiber to replace Cermark, you will be more than a little disappointed. What it CAN replace, to some extent, is rotary tool engraving. And if you want to do "bright" engraving on metals, it's the bomb! However, I've had my fiber for 8 months and it hasn't replaced one bit of Cermark engraving. And as expensive at it may seem, after doing some quick math, I find that around 80 cents worth of Cermark generates $100 in sales.

Rowmark's not even close to that cheap! ;)

[Mike Null]

+1 on the ROI on Cermark. It's the most profitable material I use.

When I was in the process of buying my Trotec I made a matrix listing brands features, etc., etc. I recommend you do the same. Besides providing a logical selection method it serves as a good self training tool. The file below will give you a start if you're interested in this project

.355073

[Julian Ashcroft]

I got my fiber laser from a company called 'Sign-In-China' it's a 20watt model and was delivered in about 10 days of placing the order, it worked straight out of the box. I have been using it mostly to mark cutlery.

[Steve Utick]

Thanks for the suggestions and feedback.

[Don Fey]

Been lurking here for a bit. I've seen it come up numerous times where people have said you can get a fairly decent Chinese fiber laser for around $5000 delivered to the U.S. However, I've never seen anything about a vendor name related to that. Any recommendations of a vendor to speak to if I'd like to add a fiber laser to my set of tools?

Thanks!

I can tell you one to stay away from- Ocean Link Technologies. Sent out a factory reject Max painted over with a spray can in place of a Raycus. Most importantly- you must have a secure payment method to buy safely from China, and Alibaba's Trade Assurance program is NOT safe. You may have to do a lot of negotiating, but insist on a third-party escrow that allows you to inspect the machine on receipt before seller can get your money. Look at the ocean Link scam at laserscams.com before you risk your money on the usual China terms of payment- (cash in advance, and pray we don't cheat you)

[mike wallis]

Forgive me for being blunt, but in a word: NOPE. If you're expecting a fiber to replace Cermark, you will be more than a little disappointed. What it CAN replace, to some extent, is rotary tool engraving. And if you want to do "bright" engraving on metals, it's the bomb! However, I've had my fiber for 8 months and it hasn't replaced one bit of Cermark engraving. And as expensive at it may seem, after doing some quick math, I find that around 80 cents worth of Cermark generates $100 in sales.

Rowmark's not even close to that cheap! ;)





Hello Kev,
We are considering going to a fiber to phase out the Thermark. Two main reasons is it's time consuming, messy and toxic when sprayed. We use Thermark on stainless steel and brass (1/16" thick) for sizes from 1x3" to 18x24". What are you main disappointments using the fiber compared to the Cermark?

[Jacob John]

Hello Kev,
We are considering going to a fiber to phase out the Thermark. Two main reasons is it's time consuming, messy and toxic when sprayed. We use Thermark on stainless steel and brass (1/16" thick) for sizes from 1x3" to 18x24". What are you main disappointments using the fiber compared to the Cermark?


BUMP to see if Kev can respond. That's a fairly pointed statement that he made. :) The companies that market fiber lasers seem to subtly suggest that their fibers can all but replace the need for Cermark.

[Tim Bateson]

...The companies that market fiber lasers seem to subtly suggest that their fibers can all but replace the need for Cermark.

If you think CerMark is slow, wait until you try it without CerMark on a Fiber. Beautiful mark, but very, very slow.

[Scott Shepherd]

Hello Kev,
We are considering going to a fiber to phase out the Thermark. Two main reasons is it's time consuming, messy and toxic when sprayed. We use Thermark on stainless steel and brass (1/16" thick) for sizes from 1x3" to 18x24". What are you main disappointments using the fiber compared to the Cermark?

If you have any plans to do anything productive with a fiber on 18" x 24" pieces, you're mistaken. A fiber won't begin to compete with Cermark on pieces that size. We have a fiber and I'd agree with Kev's assessment completely. I had a customer bring in some 4" x 6" stainless plates for a piece of equipment that produce. The part was done on a fiber. We replicated what they had. The pieces took 45 minutes each and I wasn't happy with them, but they matched what they had (the most important thing for them). Cermark would have done that same job with a better result in 1/3 the time if not less.

Brass? Don't get me started. Some brass marks, some doesn't with the fiber. You'll figure out which ones won't mark when you take a job on for a customer and they supply you with boxes of parts you can't mark.

The fiber is by no means the holy grail of metal marking that some people want you to believe it is. The larger the item, the worse it is for the fiber. You don't get to mark parts with a fiber with 1 pass for the most part. You'll have to take lots of passes and the larger the graphic gets, the quicker that time clock goes up exponentially.

[Kev Williams]

Hello Kev,
We are considering going to a fiber to phase out the Thermark. Two main reasons is it's time consuming, messy and toxic when sprayed. We use Thermark on stainless steel and brass (1/16" thick) for sizes from 1x3" to 18x24". What are you main disappointments using the fiber compared to the Cermark?
Sorry I missed this the first time...

For one thing, non-ferrous metals like brass, copper and bronze don't respond well to a fiber, if at all. And because they don't respond well, they, and copper in particular, become mirrors able to reflect the beam back up into the lens. Personally, I'm of the opinion that while this is true, what would normally reach the lens would be so out of focus as to be insignificant. I accidentally put my arm right thru the beam one day to open my exhaust's blast gate while engraving black anodized at 100% power. The only reason I knew I'd done it is the laser's 'music' stopped playing ;) -- didn't feel a thing. Not a smart move, but it did tell me that an out of focus fiber beam had no effect on my skin. Counter point-- twice with the fiber and many times with the LS900 I've been hit with beam reflections (engraving curved items) and in all cases, I was a good 2' from the source of the reflection, and in all cases I felt a very pronounced amount of heat. SO-- it's definitely possible an errant reflect could damage the machines- and your eyes if you're not wearing glasses.

More on not responding well, I have a piece of solid copper, and some copper plated cups I've tested. Solid copper just won't mark. Occasionally I hit a speed/power/freq setting that worked somewhat, but it wouldn't repeat. Same with the cup, once in awhile I'd get a dark brown burn, but right next to it a faint mark. The burn was simply that the laser found its way thru the coating and was burning the stainless base metal.

As for engraving stainless--
On mirrored or otherwise shiny SS, setting the laser at lower power and a higher freq results in a nice bright mark that is very high contrast to the shiny surface. How bright depends on settings, and also hatch spacing. Too much power and the result starts to go yellow. Too tight a hatch and the result is 'flat', but in certain cases this is a good thing. Black Cermark on shiny SS is counter productive because whatever is reflected from the background surroundings washes out the marking. If there's nothing but blue sky or white walls reflecting (rare in real life ;) ) then okay. Think knife blades- every customer (but one) I used to black Cermark on polished blades LOVES the bright engraving. Polished SS, fiber wins.

For mill finish or #4 or other non-shiny finish, you simply can't beat Cermark. It's main pain is the extra steps involved, but the results can't be beat. I do a LOT of stainless, I just bought my 3rd 500 gram bottle this YEAR. Black via Cermark simply works, and is very popular with my customers. Give up spraying it and start brushing it, it's easier, no overspray to worry about, in my testing I use half as much brushing as spraying (I'm taking 1 to 4+ square foot operator panels)...

Even for small plates, a fiber isn't the best option for black. For deep engraving to keep some engineers happy, the fiber works okay. It's actually slower than tool engraving, but that extra time is more than evened out by NOT having to sharpen the laser beam ;) .. Tool sharpening time can add up to the ridiculous... Getting SS a decent black via slow annealing requires reasonably thick material. Just before typing this I just did a pair of .020" thick SS disks, a repeat of some I did a month ago, except back then the disks were .031" thick- the place was out of those, so I had to settle for the thinner. The .031 didn't go anywhere near black, but WAS acceptably dark, but the .020 (both 304ss) didn't go anywhere near DARK let alone black. I have no scientific evidence, but what I see from my jobs is thicker goes blacker. Must be a heat thing, I assume the thinner cools off before the carbon at the surface can oxidize. And basic SS small plates are typically 20ga, which is roughly .031 thick. And even you get it black, the time it takes is excruciating!

I could keep going but that's the jist of it, based on my experiences. Been using Cermark for 15 years, and for all it's cost and PIA factor, until something else that actually works comes along, I'll keep using it :)

[Jacob John]

I appreciate the responses because I was curious as well. But damn, you guys make it hard to be excited about getting a fiber. :D

[Scott Shepherd]

I appreciate the responses because I was curious as well. But damn, you guys make it hard to be excited about getting a fiber. :D

In my opinion, the fiber does it's best on things like anodized aluminum. When you can make something in less than 1 second, you're on to something special. It does things like legend plates for electrical components in .3 seconds or something crazy. That's where it's at, in my opinion. Marking stainless isn't what it's best at. It'll do it, but it's not where the fiber shines.

[Gary Hair]

I'll add on a bit as well.
About the only time the fiber outshines Cermark is on small text and/or small areas to mark. The time to apply Cermark and laser is usually a bit more than fiber marking and you don't have the prep time/cleanup to deal with. I mark a fair number of stethoscopes and it is infinitely faster with the fiber than using Cermark, plus the alignment is 1,000 times easier.

If anyone could ever figure out fiber settings that would work with Cermark it might be a game changer!

Bleaching anodized aluminum is so much faster with a fiber than co2 and it gives a more consistent, whiter mark than you can ever get with co2. This isn't so for a gantry fiber, just a galvo fiber.

[Kev Williams]

The best way to think of a fiber laser is as an additional tool rather than a replacement for one :D

I've done some remarkable things with mine, but it'll never replace Cermark, C02 lasers or good ol' rotating cutter tools. (If it did, I'd have about 4 more fibers and about 14 less other machines! ;) )

[Scott Shepherd]

The best way to think of a fiber laser is as an additional tool rather than a replacement for one :D



Agree 100%.

Just as an example, we have a repeat job that is anodized aluminum and has alphanumeric serial numbers on them that are about 15 digits long. I just ran 25 of them at 1 second each. The automatic serial number incremented up each cycle, so I didn't have to do anything. The job, from start to finish, setup and everything, took 8 minutes. That was clamping a block to the table to push the parts against, aligning the block, focusing, and engraving all 25. We get $5 each for them. So $125 in 8 minutes. To me, that's the power of a fiber.

[John Lifer]

Scott and Kev have said it right. I'm still a newbie at both, but I took a chance and added a fiber as I had several things that the CO2 just wouldn't do. Deep engrave aluminum. But one of the first paying jobs was making one 3mm number on four sides of a part, Carbide cutting tool - several hundred. I gave them a pretty cheap price, thinking It would take me a lot longer than it did. Pick and place 6 at a time, turn, flip, turn and stack back in proper box. Took me half the time I thought and I wish I could do same job once a week. Quick painless and good job. No way with CO2.

[Jacob John]

Can anyone post a layman's guide to IPG vs SPI vs RAYCUS, etc.? I'm thoroughly confused at this point, with very little info out there to read. Mopa is another one though I think in reading it's attached/manufactured by SPI? Help me out guys!

[Gary Hair]

IPG, SPI and Raycus are manufacturers of the laser source. Mine are both Raycus and have worked fine for me. I'm not sure where they all land as far as quality, durability, etc., but as I said, mine are both working fine. MOPA is a technology and I'm pretty sure all manufacturers have a MOPA source available. There are advantages to MOPA but since I don't have one I can't tell you exactly what they are and what processes that would give you a benefit by having a MOPA source.

[Jacob John]

IPG, SPI and Raycus are manufacturers of the laser source. Mine are both Raycus and have worked fine for me. I'm not sure where they all land as far as quality, durability, etc., but as I said, mine are both working fine. MOPA is a technology and I'm pretty sure all manufacturers have a MOPA source available. There are advantages to MOPA but since I don't have one I can't tell you exactly what they are and what processes that would give you a benefit by having a MOPA source.

Thanks Gary! I've been on all their sites independently and read about their lasers, but there's not much out there for comparison in the form of reviews.

[Scott Shepherd]

The difference is quality and options. Want more control over what's happening? Spend more money. For example, the Raycus will only do 20KHz to 80KHz, while something like the SPI might go up to 180Khz or even higher, which allows you to do different things.

It's all in what you plan to use it for and what your budget is. If you want to do it all and only have $5,000, then you're not going to make that happen.

Look at what they are doing with a Trotec Speedmarker FL MOPA. It's crazy. Would love to have that. Almost full color graphics on stainless.

[Tim Bateson]

Steve, Did that by accident this past weekend on my M2. Going to get a sheet of stainless and experiment some more.

364055

[Scott Shepherd]

This is a photo of what I saw a video for. I've looked and can't locate the video. The video showed this being engraved. This is 100% done on a Trotec Speedmarker 700 on stainless. Pretty remarkable stuff if you ask me. That's the differences I'm talking about when I say the difference in options.

364063

[Tim Bateson]

Someone said they wanted to get excited by Fiber lasers. I'd say that type of output would be something to get excited about.

[Jacob John]

This is a photo of what I saw a video for. I've looked and can't locate the video. The video showed this being engraved. This is 100% done on a Trotec Speedmarker 700 on stainless. Pretty remarkable stuff if you ask me. That's the differences I'm talking about when I say the difference in options.

364063

Wow, that's awesome. I'm gonna find that video! And Tim, great work, that looks really good (even if it was an accident).

[Jacob John]

This is the video it's in, but it doesn't show that piece being lasered.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLgfNcf0eo4

[Scott Shepherd]

That's not the video I saw. It might have been a private video. It showed that piece being engraved if I remember right. It was about a month ago when I saw it. It was probably an unlisted video. I think it was out of Europe somewhere.

[Jacob John]

That's not the video I saw. It might have been a private video. It showed that piece being engraved if I remember right. It was about a month ago when I saw it. It was probably an unlisted video. I think it was out of Europe somewhere.

There are several variations of the same video for different countries on YouTube, but none show that piece.

Here is an XT Laser demo for color (no mention of what laser type it is):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8NuLdAqzUg

[Jacob John]

So curious question, does MOPA allow for better results in the color realm?

[Kev Williams]

Yup, pretty incredible. If you don't mind having to shave between jobs ;) -I've watched mopa's in action doing colors - not a Speedmarker, but I don't see any reason a Trotec would be all that much faster at annealing than the glacial speeds of other machines.

Here's the thing: Where/What exactly is the market for stainless steel with full-color graphics? As I've noted recently in other threads, I'm lucky enough to have never had to search out work, and I've been asked almost every question in the book by would-be customers in the past 42 years, but never has anyone asked "can you engrave in full color on metal?"

Just my perception of reality here, but I can't see NOT having to search out work for a mopa. For those who advertise, a mopa might be a good thing, but still, I don't see a market. Or at least, not a REPEAT market. Not because it's not cool, it is! - But because of what one would have to charge people make it worth their while, due to the slow speeds...

And before I'd ever buy one, I would want to inspect the work done by a like machine, to be sure of "actual" results...

I say this because of some of my experimenting...
I created this piece just playing around one day, I was pretty impressed actually, got several colors going on!
364080

And here's a closeup, gold, 2 blues, a nice red above...
364078

Ahhh, but simply hold the plate at a different viewing angle...
364079
---where'd all the colors go?

The colors on this plate are obviously created by some prism effect based on the light reflecting/refracting off the various hatch cuts in the metal created by different speed/power/freq settings. And just as obviously, changing the viewing angle totally negates the prism effects...

Is that fancy flag plate going to look the same at all viewing angles, or is it going to black out like my plate?

Not that this is entirely a BAD thing, my knife customers LOVE the 'holographic' effect annealed stainless has at different angles. Might be cool how colors react. Or maybe not.

I think having a mopa would be very cool, but only for my own personal use. As a means to generate income, based solely on my 'business model', I don't see it.

Just my opinion... :)

[Michael Henriksen]

Sorry, video already posted above.

[Gary Hair]

You want to know who makes money with color marking stainless with a MOPA laser?







wait for it...







almost there...







the laser manufacturers, that's who, and pretty much nobody else.

[Jacob John]

If SPI produces fiber lasers, why hasn't anyone here purchased directly from them? Some of you guys could surely put together one of these right? :D

[Scott Shepherd]

If SPI produces fiber lasers, why hasn't anyone here purchased directly from them? Some of you guys could surely put together one of these right? :D

Because the cost of the SPI source is more than the cost of an entire Chinese fiber :D

[Jacob John]

So help me out here, as I'm continuing to learn. Of course, this is somewhat subjective (like Coke vs Pepsi), but also objective as well. If you were to rank the laser source manufacturers, would it be:

1. SPI
2. IPG
3(4). Maxphotonics
4(3). Raycus

I know some of this is dependent upon materials being marked, but SPI seems to be a very high end manufacturer. Interesting too, in gathering quotes, I'm having a tough time getting some companies to name their laser source. I find that peculiar. In looking at the Maxphotonics site, they have a really clean, western looking site.

Wifi fiber:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdIeh3O3cgQ

[Jacob John]

Because the cost of the SPI source is more than the cost of an entire Chinese fiber :D

Do this, but with an SPI. Seriously though, this Maxphotonics setup is about as basic as it comes, and looks almost too easy. Might have to pick one up after all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R_YhFUcb6k

[Kev Williams]

Mr Sheldrake notwithstanding ;) - most of us are assuming the role of 'pioneers' in this new age of fiber lasers. Triumph put a Max in mine, Weike put Raycus's in Gary's, is either one better or worse than the other? At this point in time, who knows? Has anyone actually wore one out yet? :D

I'm one of the few people who've ever had a problem with my fiber, but it was either the scan head or the control board, not the laser itself. And I'm pretty good at crashing EZcad for some reason, also not the laser's fault. But since I fiddled with the control board plug and replaced the scanhead, it's given me no further grief...

I'm sure you get more bang for the buck with any high(er) end fiber source, figuring out whether you need the extra bang is the hard part ;)

[Scott Shepherd]

Matthew Knott is the one to be schooling all of us on this. He's the pro and knows the ins and outs of all of this.

In my opinion, and I'm far from an expert, the problem with most Chinese suppliers is the board they are using. They seem to all use a board from one company in China. That company is the company that created EZCAD (well, copied a Western software program), so most everything is running their boards and their software. To me, that's the weak spot in the entire setup. You can put a SPI source in a Chinese laser, but you are still driving it with a Chinese board and Chinese software. There are really powerful software programs out there that are Western made and supported, but the ones I looked at won't support Chinese sources.

There are certainly a lot of differences in a Chinese one and a brand name one, and everything in the middle. Software, support, etc.

For me, I'd rather have the better software. To get that, you need a better source/board combo that supports it.

[Jacob John]

With Steve's above comment, what would be everyone's recommendations for a Chinese made 30 watt fiber with either an SPI or IPG source? I'd like to try Samlight.