Trotec speedy 80 watt laser or CO2 galvo laser for engraving on wood

[saikat saha]

Hi,

We currently use a 30 watt synrad laser GCC Mercury III(servo motors) to engrave on our wooden notebooks, phone cases and sunglasses (http://www.woodgeekstore.com/) . Our laser engraver is used only for engraving not cutting. We currently engrave on bamboo and a variety of other wooden species.


The problem
- Engraving on large wooden panels takes too long.
- Engraving wooden panels in the size of 12 inches x 9 inches ( 305 mm x 229 mm) takes 1 hr - 1 hr 20 mins with speed of 30 - 40 and power at 100. ( see attached pics).
- Engraving wooden panels in the size of 18 inches x 12 inches (457 x 305 mm) takes 1 hr 45 min to 2 hr+ with speed of 30 - 40 and power at 100. ( see attached pics).



The solution we are looking for
The engraving quality of our engraver is really good, but we want to upgrade to a faster laser engraver with a 60/80 watt laser tube. We are looking for the fastest available option in our budget of $30,000. We are considering either a gantry/flying optics type 80 watt Speedy 360 (~$30,000) or a Indian made co2 galvo laser marking machine with a 40-60 watt synrad tube and a bed size of 24"x 24". (Something like this - galvo co2 laser 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHwOqzhDqPU&index=73&list=PLGC81JKaGNBbxPCe_mnPqQ4Vw9V7iL40E) , galvo co2 laser 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Sf8ohG2aY&list=PLGC81JKaGNBbxPCe_mnPqQ4Vw9V7iL40E&index=72))


Queries for the experienced galvo machine users:
1) We want to engrave on wooden panels upto 18" x 12". Is there any significant loss of engraving quality on a co2 galvo laser for this size.
2) We are hoping to run multiple passes on a 40/60 watt c02 galvo laser marking machine for depth of engraving.

Which engraver would you suggest for our needs? We want the same high quality engraving like our GCC Mercury III but with the fastest possible speed for engraving 18" x 12" wooden panels. We are biased towards the Trotec, mostly because we have always wanted one.

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[John Lifer]

Buy the Speedy! No comparison. In my opinion, the higher wattage tube will not speed you up. It will actually make things worse. You lose lower control of light engraving. My 80watt co2 won't fire consistently at below 18% or so. I dont have real world comparison, but some others here do. But i would bet you cut your time in half.

[Don Corbeil]

They don't call it speedy for nothing... I have an 80W 300, and in addition to the speed, the reliability is unsurpassed. Your budget is easily in range of this machine.

[Gary Hair]

First, a higher wattage tube WILL speed you up if you buy a quality laser. The problem John mentioned is primarily found on Chinese glass tube lasers.
There are a few things I would do to speed up those pieces and I'm betting my 80 watt Speedy 400 would take a fraction of the time your current laser takes. If you want to send me the files I could run them through Job Control and give you an idea how long my laser would take and any ways I see to speed things up.

[Mike Null]

I'm with the others, though I would encourage you to look at the Speedy 400 if you have space.

I would also suggest you look at altering your drawings just a bit. On number 1. you may be able to draw it so that you can vector your border thereby eliminating the most time-consuming part of your drawing. On number 3. I would eliminate the partial box framing the drawing as I don't believe it adds anything but time.

And, welcome to Sawmill Creek. Glad to have you join us.

[Kev Williams]

Devil's advocate-- :D
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This is a 24" diameter table top a gun customer of mine brought to me, the engraving is the "I-Ching", and it was scanned from a book. No cleanup, she wanted it 'as is'.
I was able to cheat on the border a bit by avoiding 'air engraving' where possible, but still, there was no cheating with the center section, which is just under 12x12"-
--screenshot of the Corel job as exported to the Triumph, the color changes helped with the time...
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Notice the depth in the 3rd pic, that's nearly 3/16" deep. I think it's alder... Ran it in one pass on the 80w Triumph.

Took 48 minutes.

IIRC this was at my machine's full power and 400mm/sec, and around .18 on the gap as this was a fairly forgiving design...

This machine will run up to 800mm/sec-- nowhere near Trotec/Gravograph territory, but this machine WILL deep engrave wood seriously fast! Mostly due to the 80 watts of course. For much shallower engraving, an 80 Trotec WILL be faster... ;)

[John Noell]

Kev, slightly off topic: what do use to clean up the residue? I find I have to be very careful not to get the dark residue wicking into the grain a bit (with both DNA and soapy water) and often do get some. (Not that anyone else has noticed or commented.)

[Robert . Payne]

John we just use a small power hand sander and then shopvac at an angle over the surface when finished to get the dust out. Works great and makes every wood job look fantastic.

We sand just about all our wood products after lasering front and back as it smooths the surface and cleans it up a lot, we build the labor into the price though and if some customers are really on the prowl for cheap as possible we offer it w/o sanding.

[saikat saha]

Thank you your replies. I am considering getting the Speedy 360 with an 80 watt tube. This has a work area of 813 x 508 mm (32x20 inch) is a lot more powerful than my current 30 watt GCC Mercury III with its 640 x 460 mm work area. I'd love to get the larger 80 watt Speedy 400 but it's a tad over budget. The interesting thing is the 120 watt Speedy 360 is about the same price as the 80 watt Speedy 400. Generally for laser engravers i have used, I max out the power long before i max out the speed for engraving on wood. For example, with my 30 watt GCC Mercury III with synrad laser tube and servo motors, I have to run at 40-50 speed and 100 power to get a depth of 1 mm.

I understand the Speedy 360 is a faster machine and has faster x & y motors. So i have a few queries:

1) Will i be able to run a Speedy 360 80 watt at 100 speed for engraving on wood and get 1 mm depth. (see attached picture)
2) How much faster will a Speedy 360 with 120 watt laser be for engraving on a 18"x12" wooden panel compared to the 80 watt Speedy. (see attached picture). I understand specifics depend upon several other parameters, but a ball park figure would help. I am trying to see if the increase in price over the 80 watt speedy is justified.

Experienced speedy users please help.

Gary, it would be great if you can run the files and let me know the time. Thank you!



First, a higher wattage tube WILL speed you up if you buy a quality laser. The problem John mentioned is primarily found on Chinese glass tube lasers.
There are a few things I would do to speed up those pieces and I'm betting my 80 watt Speedy 400 would take a fraction of the time your current laser takes. If you want to send me the files I could run them through Job Control and give you an idea how long my laser would take and any ways I see to speed things up.

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[Gary Hair]

A 120 watt vs 80 watt will be faster, how much I don't know. 50% increase in power certainly won't mean 50% increase in speed, but it will definitely increase. Send the files to ghair at nwlaserimage dot com and I'll let you know what I find.

[Rich Kruyer]

I upgraded from a Mercury 35 watt laser to the Trotec Speedy 360 80 watt laser a 1-1/2 years ago. There is a huge speed increase in going to the Trotec. for engraving wood items I run 100% power and roughly 55% speed. Going to 120 watt laser you should be able to increase your speed even more.

[saikat saha]

I upgraded from a Mercury 35 watt laser to the Trotec Speedy 360 80 watt laser a 1-1/2 years ago. There is a huge speed increase in going to the Trotec. for engraving wood items I run 100% power and roughly 55% speed. Going to 120 watt laser you should be able to increase your speed even more.

Thanks. Looking forward to faster engraving with the Speedy 360.

[Bill George]

I thought part of the question was using a Galvo Fiber Laser on wood. I have had limited success on wood with mine on darker woods, like walnut. Bamboo and lighter wood no. The size you need, no.

[saikat saha]

I am also considering a co2 galvo laser for engraving. Co2 galvo lasers are more suited for wood. Although, it's difficult to find one with the bed size of 24"x24", which is the minimum i need. The co2 galvo options from brand companies like GCC, Trotec and Epilog are too expensive. I did manage to find a supplier in my country who can build a co2 galvo with a synrad laser tube and a 24" x 24" bed size. I've sent some samples for engraving, so I'll know once i get them back.

The trouble is it's been difficult to find any one who has used a co2 galvo laser to engrave on large wooden panels. Most galvos are used for marking, so i am not sure if they are suitable for my needs.


I thought part of the question was using a Galvo Fiber Laser on wood. I have had limited success on wood with mine on darker woods, like walnut. Bamboo and lighter wood no. The size you need, no.

[David Somers]

Saikat. Have you checked out products from Kern? I assume they are too large and too much money for your needs, but I recently saw a gorgeous deep bas relief wall panel that had been done with a Kern. It was impressive.

Also, when I was idly looking at galvo machines the other day (not seriously looking, just seeing what was there and what they did) I came across a number of direct from China CO2 galvos being used on various woods including bamboo. Bed sizes varied. And I may be mistaken, but the bed size is affected by the lens you have mounted. A different lens can give you a different area of coverage. Though I assume that like in a CO2 gantry system a longer lens gives you a larger dot size and reduced detail. A fiber is not as affected by that. And in a fiber galvo I believe the same idea applies. A longer lens should equal a larger engraving area. Can Kev or someone with a galvo pipe up and confirm that for me or correct me?

[saikat saha]

Saikat. Have you checked out products from Kern? I assume they are too large and too much money for your needs, but I recently saw a gorgeous deep bas relief wall panel that had been done with a Kern. It was impressive.

Also, when I was idly looking at galvo machines the other day (not seriously looking, just seeing what was there and what they did) I came across a number of direct from China CO2 galvos being used on various woods including bamboo. Bed sizes varied. And I may be mistaken, but the bed size is affected by the lens you have mounted. A different lens can give you a different area of coverage. Though I assume that like in a CO2 gantry system a longer lens gives you a larger dot size and reduced detail. A fiber is not as affected by that. And in a fiber galvo I believe the same idea applies. A longer lens should equal a larger engraving area. Can Kev or someone with a galvo pipe up and confirm that for me or correct me?

David, I've not had a chance to see lasers from Kern. As far as I can tell, they are not available in India.
From their YouTube videos, looks like they make large industrial systems.
I need high quality engraving, so I prefer the metal tube lasers from Synrad. I am not sure, if the Chinese laser companies use Synrad laser tubes. I've only seen the glass tube laser cutting machines from china. I'd also be a little concerned about the software.

With the different lens, maybe a 4 inch lens, the coverage area may be more, but I've read the sharpness of the engraving detoriates, especially around the edges, as the laser beam hits the substrate at an angle. It'd be interesting to see how much of a loss of quality there is compared to the engraving from my Mercury III or compared to a speedy.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'd think something like this would be a better choice. This is a poor quality video but it shows the concept. I don't know of any brand name companies making them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD7AXCpntfM