Grizzly planer and jointer spiral cutter head bolts

[Dan Letkeman]

Hello,

Wondering if anyone else has rotated there spiral cutter heads and broke the torx bolts? I would like to order replacement bolts, but I am unable to find them from any other place than grizzly. I would prefer not to order them from grizzly at $1/bolt, as I would like to have enouph replacement to replace all of them.

Anyone found a supplier that sells these?

Thanks,
Dan.

[Jim Riseborough]

Hello,

Wondering if anyone else has rotated there spiral cutter heads and broke the torx bolts? I would like to order replacement bolts, but I am unable to find them from any other place than grizzly. I would prefer not to order them from grizzly at $1/bolt, as I would like to have enouph replacement to replace all of them.

Anyone found a supplier that sells these?

Thanks,
Dan.

If grizzly sells them, then someone makes them for them.

Try Grainger?? McMaster Carr?

[cecil rolfe]

Try Fastenal

[Dan Letkeman]

Tried McMaster. I couldn't find anything on there website that came close. Seems like it might be custom bolt of some kind.

I would suggest to anyone doing the change on there spiral cutter head to under tighten the bolts when putting the cutter heads back in. I used a torque wrench set to the specified inch/lbs and I was snapping every other bolt. It seems they are made of very weak material.

[Dan Letkeman]

Just came from Fastenal. The guy said he had never seen a bolt like that.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

What model Grizzly are we looking at?

[Dan Letkeman]

What model Grizzly are we looking at?

G0453PX and G0490X. Both take the same cutter heads and bolts.

[Dan Letkeman]

Looks like this:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dan,

Do a search using flat head, M6-1 screw. The one's for the G0490X are a flat head Torx T-20 M6-1 x 15 mm.

Here's a bag of 100 at Grainger. They are 1mm longer at 16mm. Grainger has them at 14mm length too. https://www.grainger.com/product/CAMCAR-M6-1-00-x-16mm-5YRK1

These are allen head but I'd use them.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I replaced the link in my previous post for one that works.

Here's another at Grainger at $11.50 for 100. https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-M6-1-00-x-16mm-4XY97

[Dan Letkeman]

I replaced the link in my previous post for one that works.

Here's another at Grainger at $11.50 for 100. https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-M6-1-00-x-16mm-4XY97

Thats definitely more reasonable in price. But, I think the head will be too large. This is what the salesman at Fastenal noticed as well. The head on this bolt is almost half the size it normally would be.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Try this from McMaster Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/#flat-head-machine-screws/=16drwdb

Using this link, scroll down to "Metric Tamper resistant Torx head screws".

It may be time to pay the $1.

[Mark Furjanic]

That screw has an undercut head making it an undercut flat head screw. Fastenal does have them in SAE sizes but if it's metric I don't know where to get them. I work in the fastener industry and can call one of our metric houses tomorrow to see if they can point me if you can say it's an M4 or M5 as opposed to a #8 or 10

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mark....the Grizzly manual for the G0490X says it's a M6-1 x 15.


Dan...the McMaster Carr data on the Torx Tamper resistant shows a head width and height measurement that you could compare. Those are also Stainless which might be an advantage?

[Mark Furjanic]

I'll make a call tomorrow and see if I can turn any up. We deal primarily in set screws but our supplier should know of any around.

[glenn bradley]

Looks like this:

Search for "Spare Screws for Spiral Head Insert Knives" at globaltooling <dot> com. They are still 88 cents each. They also have the inserts for under $3 each and have sold them in sets at a greater discount.

354137

[Mark W Pugh]

Big question, why are they breaking off? This is unacceptable. I'm thinking of buying a new planer with a spiral head, but if I have to pull out a broken bolt every time I need to replace or rotate a cutter...........

Everyone/anyone else have this problem with Grizzly?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I haven't had any issues on my G0490X.

[Matt Day]

McMaster has just about every fastener, it's just a matter of finding it.

[Dan Letkeman]

I'll make a call tomorrow and see if I can turn any up. We deal primarily in set screws but our supplier should know of any around.

Thanks for this.

Dan.

[Dan Letkeman]

Big question, why are they breaking off? This is unacceptable. I'm thinking of buying a new planer with a spiral head, but if I have to pull out a broken bolt every time I need to replace or rotate a cutter...........

Everyone/anyone else have this problem with Grizzly?

They all broke in the undercut section just under the head of the bolt. The threaded part of the bolt was threaded all the way into the head, but these bolts are manufactured with a very loose tollerance to the threading in the cutter head. Each time one broke I could turn it out by hand.


When I was tightening them, I could tell which ones were going to break. Felt like the bolt turned into mush half way through tightening them.

[Dan Letkeman]

Search for "Spare Screws for Spiral Head Insert Knives" at globaltooling <dot> com. They are still 88 cents each. They also have the inserts for under $3 each and have sold them in sets at a greater discount.

354137


This is close and would probably work. The original is undercut below the head. Not sure why.

[John Lanciani]

Tried McMaster. I couldn't find anything on there website that came close. Seems like it might be custom bolt of some kind.

I would suggest to anyone doing the change on there spiral cutter head to under tighten the bolts when putting the cutter heads back in. I used a torque wrench set to the specified inch/lbs and I was snapping every other bolt. It seems they are made of very weak material.

What torque wrench are you using and what torque value? Byrd specs 50-55 INCH pounds; what does Grizz spec?

[Dan Letkeman]

What torque wrench are you using and what torque value? Byrd specs 50-55 INCH pounds; what does Grizz spec?

Not sure what model it is, and if I remember correctly the grizzly manual said 50 inch pounds. I had it down to 30 inch pounds so they wouldn't snap off.

Interesting thing is that I never snapped a cutter. The bolt broke instead.....you think it would be the opposite.

[John Lanciani]

Not sure what model it is, and if I remember correctly the grizzly manual said 50 inch pounds. I had it down to 30 inch pounds so they wouldn't snap off.

Interesting thing is that I never snapped a cutter. The bolt broke instead.....you think it would be the opposite.


What is the min/max range on your wrench? 30 inch pounds is screwdriver type torque, hard to imagine you are shearing off M6 screws at that low of a value. I'm suspicious of the torque wrench at this point.

[Dan Letkeman]

What is the min/max range on your wrench? 30 inch pounds is screwdriver type torque, hard to imagine you are shearing off M6 screws at that low of a value. I'm suspicious of the torque wrench at this point.

Its just a small one. Goes up to 80 inch pounds. I did suspect that as well, but a lot of them worked with no problem. I probably broke about 10 of 72. I suspect the bolts that broke were faulty.

[keith micinski]

I had multiple snap on me when rotating also. That smaller head to be recessed in the cutter really limited my options so I just gave up and got 25 from grizzly and that leaves me a bunch extra for the next time. The one good thing is when they do break off its really no big deal to remove them.

[Ronald Blue]

Here is a source for them possibly. Kennametal is top of the line if any are correct.

mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Indexable-Cutting-Tools/Indexable-Replacement-Parts-Accessories/Fasteners-For-Indexables/Screws-For-Indexables?navid=12107166

[Mark W Pugh]

They all broke in the undercut section just under the head of the bolt. The threaded part of the bolt was threaded all the way into the head, but these bolts are manufactured with a very loose tollerance to the threading in the cutter head. Each time one broke I could turn it out by hand.


When I was tightening them, I could tell which ones were going to break. Felt like the bolt turned into mush half way through tightening them.

Is this everyone else's experience?

[Dan Letkeman]

I had multiple snap on me when rotating also. That smaller head to be recessed in the cutter really limited my options so I just gave up and got 25 from grizzly and that leaves me a bunch extra for the next time. The one good thing is when they do break off its really no big deal to remove them.

Good to hear it was not just mine that did this. I agree its quite easy to remove them if they break. I guess I will just get them from grizzly as I have no spares left now.

[glenn bradley]

Big question, why are they breaking off? This is unacceptable. I'm thinking of buying a new planer with a spiral head, but if I have to pull out a broken bolt every time I need to replace or rotate a cutter...........

Everyone/anyone else have this problem with Grizzly?


I haven't had any issues on my G0490X.

I believe this is just a case of someone wanting to be prepared. I have rotated the 40 inserts on my jointer a couple of times and the 70-odd on my planer once. Never broke a bolt or an insert. There was a wave of bad Byrd head QA reports that I think boiled down to folks not following procedure when rotating. The machines come with a few extra bolts and inserts but, the drive bits they come with are cheap-o's.

Get a good torx bit (I bought a couple Milwaukees made for impact use) and torque wrench, clean everything well and seat to spec and you should be trouble free. If you try to wing it, I could see trouble. The torque amount is pretty low and one could easily exceed the spec. The current manual asks for 48 - 50 inch pounds. The older manual spec'd 55 inch pounds which is what I used without issue.

354192

I do it like so . . .


Unplug jointer
Remove guard
Use wedge and a light tap from the hammer to lock the head in position
Loosen screw with small torx #20 and handle
Back out screw with magnetic tip so as not to become unhappy
Remove insert and wipe the bulk of the crud off of it
Drop insert into cleaner
Use nylon brush to scrub seat area on the head with cleaner
Blow seat area clean with compressed air
Scrub insert clean and then dry with paper towel
Inspect insert to assure no foreign matter is anywhere (X-Acto knife helps if you find anything stubborn)
Seat insert
Apply small drop of 3-in-1 to threads of screw
Insert screw with magnetic tip and finger tighten
Apply 50 - 55 inch pounds with torque wrench <=== double check the spec for your machine
Rinse and Repeat

[Rod Sheridan]

Hard to imagine that you could break a bolt with 50 inch pounds of torque, as that's approximately 4 foot-pounds.

I have a torque screwdriver that is in that range, it's used for electrical fittings like household size circuit breakers.................Rod.

[Mark Furjanic]

Still working on it. I sent the pic in this thread to our metric supplier and my office spoke to our rep this afternoon. From what I was hearing from my girl they were looking at a standard flat head screw which this one isn't. I dug around in my box of tricks and found what I might call a maintenance pack that came with my Grizzly jointer (previously sold due to space constraints but seemingly I never gave the buyer the pack of extras) I have a few cutters, a pair of screws, and a couple drivers in the pack. I'll get actual dimensions of the head off the screws I have and get back to our supplier.

I did take a good look at the relationship between the screw and insert and I see no reason for an undercut. There's plenty of room for a fully threaded screw to securely hold the insert to the drum and the undercut would only potentially weaken the screw.
More to come as I have it.

[Van Huskey]

Could it be the undercut is designed to have the screw fail prior to the insert, they are cheaper than the inserts? That said I find it hard to fathom how 50 or so inch pounds are breaking the bolts unless they are seriously compromised. Either the bolts are made from extremely poor steel or the torque wrench is out of spec, by a good amount.

[Ronald Blue]

Could it be the undercut is designed to have the screw fail prior to the insert, they are cheaper than the inserts? That said I find it hard to fathom how 50 or so inch pounds are breaking the bolts unless they are seriously compromised. Either the bolts are made from extremely poor steel or the torque wrench is out of spec, by a good amount.

Van you might be on to something there. Dan what brand is your torque wrench? I am thinking a decent quality one might be warranted here. Is it 1/4" drive?

[David Kumm]

I've never heard of a fastener on a rotating cylinder spec'd to fail so there can be two projectiles to duck from. Sounds to me like a bad batch of screws. If you can easily break them with low torque, they certainly could fail if the insert hits a knot. I'd find out the scoop from Grizzly. They should be explaining what is wrong and sending replacements. Dave

[Van Huskey]

I've never heard of a fastener on a rotating cylinder spec'd to fail so there can be two projectiles to duck from. Sounds to me like a bad batch of screws. If you can easily break them with low torque, they certainly could fail if the insert hits a knot. I'd find out the scoop from Grizzly. They should be explaining what is wrong and sending replacements. Dave


That is a good point, I was thinking that if it didn't fail tightening it that it wouldn't fail which upon some thought makes no sense because the forces on the screw would probably be much higher than a small amount of over torque. My first point only makes sense in a static environment which this is far from.

So, either REALLY bad screws or a torque wrench far out of spec.

FWIW I use a Park TW5 torque wrench for this range (26-132 inch pounds), it is a bicycle tool company but it is pretty accurate (within 4%) and it does double duty in my household since I am a cyclist. They run about $100. You should be able to get a set torque driver for less money and even more accurate.

[Dan Letkeman]

Van you might be on to something there. Dan what brand is your torque wrench? I am thinking a decent quality one might be warranted here. Is it 1/4" drive?

I highly doubt I was over titening the bolts with the torque wrench set the way I did. I honestly could have snapped them off with a straight driver. I'm guessing the bolts are bad, especially since others did have the same problem.

[Dan Letkeman]

I've never heard of a fastener on a rotating cylinder spec'd to fail so there can be two projectiles to duck from. Sounds to me like a bad batch of screws. If you can easily break them with low torque, they certainly could fail if the insert hits a knot. I'd find out the scoop from Grizzly. They should be explaining what is wrong and sending replacements. Dave

I think I might give this a try. Doesn't hurt to ask.

[Dan Letkeman]

Still working on it. I sent the pic in this thread to our metric supplier and my office spoke to our rep this afternoon. From what I was hearing from my girl they were looking at a standard flat head screw which this one isn't. I dug around in my box of tricks and found what I might call a maintenance pack that came with my Grizzly jointer (previously sold due to space constraints but seemingly I never gave the buyer the pack of extras) I have a few cutters, a pair of screws, and a couple drivers in the pack. I'll get actual dimensions of the head off the screws I have and get back to our supplier.

I did take a good look at the relationship between the screw and insert and I see no reason for an undercut. There's plenty of room for a fully threaded screw to securely hold the insert to the drum and the undercut would only potentially weaken the screw.
More to come as I have it.

Looking forward too it.

[Scott DelPorte]

One time I was rotating inserts on my Grizzly planer, and was using a small impact driver to spin out the torx screws. I have a torque driver to put them back in, but the impact one is much faster when removing them. I took a break, and when i came back, inadvertently tightened one with the impact driver instead of loosening it. I then proceeded to break several bits trying to spin it back out again. The bits would shear off inside the torx head because the screw was so tight. After breaking about 3 bits, it finally came loose, but the screw was plenty strong to handle the over torque and didn't seem damaged. i replaced the screw as a precaution and have had no ill effects from the mishap.

I wonder if they intentionally use weaker screws on your planer so they would break in an over torque situation as a way to protect the threads on the cutter head.

[Cary Falk]

I have taken out the screws on the Grizzly and the Byrd with an impact driver and reinstalled them with a torque wrench. 50 in/lbs is not that much. I could probably put more than that with a screw driver. The torque wrench would have to be way out of cal or the screws are bad. Maybe they were screwed in too tight at the factory and compromised. I was getting non flat results on my byrd and had to remove every cutter. I had 3 inserts fall apart once I removed the screw. I use the HF 1/4" drive torque wrench and don't have any issues.

[Mark Furjanic]

Finally got word back from our 5th metric wholesaler. All 5 are of the opinion that it's not a standard screw (not much surprise). None of the 5 can find anything in their systems for such a screw and said that the machine manufacturers must have them made special for their applications.
Sorry I couldn't help.

[Dan Letkeman]

Finally got word back from our 5th metric wholesaler. All 5 are of the opinion that it's not a standard screw (not much surprise). None of the 5 can find anything in their systems for such a screw and said that the machine manufacturers must have them made special for their applications.
Sorry I couldn't help.

No problem, thanks for trying. I landed up buying a few from Grizzly for spares. I am going to try turning all of the cutters on my G0490x jointer now. I am curious if those are going to break when using the same torque wrench. If not then I know for sure that the bolts were bad in my planer.

Thanks,
Dan.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dan,

I am going to ask something and then make a statement. Please understand, I am not trying to insult you in any way.

Have you ever had formal training on using a torque wrench?

Before I retired, I installed and maintained CT scanners for 34 years and MR scanners for 23 years. The new CT scanners spin a frame that weighs over a ton. The frame is spun sub-second. To image the heart the frame with a 350 lb. x-ray tube spins 360º in 0.3 seconds. All the bolts and screws, everything on that rotating frame has to be torqued to very specific values, to hold them in place and to prevent them from breaking during removal. So, over-torqueing and under-torqueing is an issue. Patient safety and downtime due to broken screws/bolts were potential issues. Our torque wrenches were sent to a calibration lab annually and recalibrated. We had to take a class on using a torque wrench.

The proper way to torque something to say, 20 inch pounds is to set the torque wrench to 10 inch pounds, slowly torque the bolt/screw to 10 inch pounds. You want to ease into the value. Then adjust the torque wrench for 20 inch pounds and torque the screw to 20 inch pounds while easing it into that value.

DO NOT GO BACK to recheck the value when you reach the desired value, in the example I made, 20 inch pounds. Often, it's in the rechecking where the over-torqueing occurs.

They demonstrated in the class how easily a bolt or screw's torque value could be exceeded by too casually reefing on the torque wrench. It's very easy to do.

Again, I don't mean to insult you in any way.

BTW, I have a G0490X and have had no problems with breaking the cutters or screws.

Good luck!

[Bill Space]

Thanks for posting the info on proper torque wrench use Ken. I find it very useful personally.

Bill

[Dan Letkeman]

Dan,

I am going to ask something and then make a statement. Please understand, I am not trying to insult you in any way.

Have you ever had formal training on using a torque wrench?

Before I retired, I installed and maintained CT scanners for 34 years and MR scanners for 23 years. The new CT scanners spin a frame that weighs over a ton. The frame is spun sub-second. To image the heart the frame with a 350 lb. x-ray tube spins 360º in 0.3 seconds. All the bolts and screws, everything on that rotating frame has to be torqued to very specific values, to hold them in place and to prevent them from breaking during removal. So, over-torqueing and under-torqueing is an issue. Patient safety and downtime due to broken screws/bolts were potential issues. Our torque wrenches were sent to a calibration lab annually and recalibrated. We had to take a class on using a torque wrench.

The proper way to torque something to say, 20 inch pounds is to set the torque wrench to 10 inch pounds, slowly torque the bolt/screw to 10 inch pounds. You want to ease into the value. Then adjust the torque wrench for 20 inch pounds and torque the screw to 20 inch pounds while easing it into that value.

DO NOT GO BACK to recheck the value when you reach the desired value, in the example I made, 20 inch pounds. Often, it's in the rechecking where the over-torqueing occurs.

They demonstrated in the class how easily a bolt or screw's torque value could be exceeded by too casually reefing on the torque wrench. It's very easy to do.

Again, I don't mean to insult you in any way.

BTW, I have a G0490X and have had no problems with breaking the cutters or screws.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info, no insult taken. That would be a good way to torque something to a very accurate value.

I did some manual testing against a snap-on torque wrench, which I can't say is the most accurate test, and both mine and the snap-on torque wrench torqued the bolts nearly the same amount. I would like to think that after this test mine is probably not inaccurate by more than 20 percent and not the cause of breaking the bolts. I have used a torque wrench in many different cases, and I never torque and re-torque the same bolt, except when changing wheels on the vehicles.

I will rotate the cutters on my g0490x soon and report back. I suspect I won't break a single one.