Bandsaw Pre-Gloat

[Timo Christ]

Hi Folks,

maybe you remember me asking about various bandsaws here in the forum. Well, i finally took the plunge and ordered a Holzkraft HBS533S, which is the european sister model of the Grizzly G0566. It's a 21", 5HP, 300kg machine. Will be delivered next friday, i can't wait :D:D:D.
Unfortunately it is significantly more expensive than Grizzly.. especially factoring in the euro/dollar exchange rate. that's what you get for a strong currency, expensive imports. It's still only half of a Hema (the REAL bandsaw mercedes).. and should be more machine than i ever need.
This is my first bandsaw.. and hopefully my last.
I'm already thinking about putting Panhans APA guides on it, but i'll try the factory guides first.
http://www.holzkraft-maschinen.de/typo3temp/pics/2ee94a9bd2.jpg
That's the machine.
The machinery dealer also had a used clean-air dust extractor, an Esta Dustomat. It looks kinda like this:
http://www.esta-absaugtechnik.de/infoshop02.05/images/big/dust10m2.jpg
the connection port is 100mm (4"), 1.5HP (1.1kW) and it should be fine for the bandsaw. Only downside to this one is that it's a single phase machine. I tried it out in his "showroom" and it "sucked" and was pretty quiet. We made a good deal on this one.. ;)

I will post pics of my actual machines as soon as they arrive!
Cheers,
Timo

[John Bailey]

Timo,

Thanks for the post. I spend my summers in Europe and it's very interesting for me to see what's happing over there. Keep up the posts! By the way, have you posted pictures of your shop. I've not noticed it. If not, I would be extremely interested to see it. Most of the woodworkers I visited this last summer had a different view of woodworking. Smaller equipment, but just as good results.

John

[Karl Laustrup]

Nice score Timo. Very impressive looking saw. Look forward to the photos of them in your shop.

Karl

[Vaughn McMillan]

For a first bandsaw, that's quite a beast. You could resaw houses with that thing. Looks like a great machine.

- Vaughn

[Timo Christ]

I will post pictures of my shop when the machines are there. It is small, i have two rooms in the basement, about 12sqm in one, and 18 in the other. A connected space of 30-40sqm would be nice.. well, in my own home later :).
Don't have any other stationary tools, only a small table saw (30kg..).
I'm planning to build a router-table attachment for the workmate and perhaps get a 10-12" j/p later. Will see how i can do with hand planes and "sawing to thickness" with the BS first.

Timo

[Frank Pellow]

Congratulations Timo, and I look forward to seeing pictures of you shop.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Timo, congrats on your saw purchase! It sure does look to be a beuty!!

[Niels J. Larsen]

Oohhh - NICE hardware!

Out of curiosity - could you tell me why you chose the Holzkraft over all the others in the market ?

The Esta dust extractor - is that a cyclone design ?
How much did you have to pay and what is the cost for a brand new unit ?

Congrats! :D

/Niels

[lou sansone]

Oohhh - NICE hardware!

Out of curiosity - could you tell me why you chose the Holzkraft over all the others in the market ?

The Esta dust extractor - is that a cyclone design ?
How much did you have to pay and what is the cost for a brand new unit ?

Congrats! :D

/Niels

I would also be interested in that as well. I would have thought that being in europe you would be more inclined to choose an italian saw. just wondering that all. thanks and best wishes with you nice new saw

lou

[Ted Shrader]

Timo -

Congratulations on your purchase. Waiting will be the hard part. You will be pleased with the capability the big BS gives you.

Ted

[Michael Ballent]

Timo,

Congrats on the new toys :D But it does not make sense to me that imports would cost more, unless there is an import tax of some sort... The Euro is stronger than the dollar so I would think that imports would be cheaper, and if the bandsaw was made in China then their currency is pegged to the US dollar. Either way nice looking bandsaw :D... I have never seen a DC like that one... where is the input and where are the filters? in the green box?

[Roy Wall]

Timo,

Nice score!!!

Expensive is relative.......it looks like this impressive machine may not be that much more $$ if you had gone the route of ...

Buy bandsaw #1, sell later , get bandsaw #2, sell later, yada yada:)

Good tools are usually well worth the money!! Everything seems to always cost more a few years down the road......

[Timo Christ]

Hey all,
thanks for the responses and encouragement!

The Esta dust collector - it is not a cyclone, but a clean air extractor. Maybe it has an intake vane, i will take it apart when i have it. Clean air extractors have the blower on the clean side of the filter. In the picture you see a hole in the machine, this is the intake. The lower barrel collects the chips, and the upper barrel houses the filter (pleated polyester/paper, as on cyclones etc). The blower, motor etc is in the box. I think it is about 1500 euro new, and i paid less than 1/3rd of this for my used unit.

The smaller Italian saws, like the Hammer, don't have enough power and blade capacity. I didn't want a saw that can only take a 20mm blades, as the 2/3 TPI bimetal blades are only available in 27mm and bigger. The ACM branded line also didn't quite fit the specs i wanted. The SCM (MM USA) machines aren't really on the market here. I am sure they (SCM as well as ACM) build special models for the US export market. The Italian saws also aren't that cheap (they're more expensive than in the US), for example a Panhans BSB500 costs 3000 euro, or a Hema Garant 600 costs 3300 euro. These are both labeled Italian machines, with upgraded guides (APA). They still have less power and resaw height than the Holzkraft. The german made Hema saws start at about twice the price of my saw.. a bit much for a weekend hobby shop.
Good used saws are available, but they are all in the 1-ton cast iron class (Koelle, Baeuerle...) and there is just no way to put one of these into the basement. If i had a level shop i'd have gone with one of these. The 300kg saw is about the biggest that can be manouvered down to the basement, and i'm having the dealer do it. It's only 6 steps straight down, so he will just slide it down a plank.

Michael, you are correct about the currency/import relations.

I think waiting won't be that hard as i will be quite busy until the machines show up. Have to make room for the saw, run a 3-phase line to the shop, clean up and finish a little project which sits in the way.

:)
Timo

[Dan Forman]

Looks like quite a nice saw. Have fun with it!!

Dan

[Niels J. Larsen]

Hey all,
The smaller Italian saws, like the Hammer, don't have enough power and blade capacity. I didn't want a saw that can only take a 20mm blades, as the 2/3 TPI bimetal blades are only available in 27mm and bigger. The ACM branded line also didn't quite fit the specs i wanted. The SCM (MM USA) machines aren't really on the market here. I am sure they (SCM as well as ACM) build special models for the US export market. The Italian saws also aren't that cheap (they're more expensive than in the US), for example a Panhans BSB500 costs 3000 euro, or a Hema Garant 600 costs 3300 euro. These are both labeled Italian machines, with upgraded guides (APA). They still have less power and resaw height than the Holzkraft. The german made Hema saws start at about twice the price of my saw.. a bit much for a weekend hobby shop.


Timo,

Did you look at the Bernardo saws ?
To me they look very similar - are they built on the same factory ?

/Niels

[Christian Aufreiter]

Congrats on the new equipment, Timo.
Where's the Holzkraft manufactured?

Regards,

Christian

[Ian Barley]

Timo

Nice saw - Holzkraft have some nice equipment - I suspect that it will be all the bandsaw you need for quite a long time.


But it does not make sense to me that imports would cost more, unless there is an import tax of some sort...

Michael - there is a an import duty (certainly in the UK) and the price also suffers because of the difference in relative market size. I can't speak for the mainland of europe but in the UK we genarally pay in pounds not far off what you guys pay in dollars. I have before now purchased items in Florida, that were made in Sheffield for less than I can buy them in Sheffield. Go figure?

[Timo Christ]

Niels,
the Bernardo and Holzkraft bandsaws are the same machines, only a few details differ. They are also very similar to the Grizzly machines, so i do think they come from the same factory. I am not sure where the factory is, but i'm guessing Taiwan. Bernardo (used to?) source machinery from Bulgaria.. maybe i can find out when i have the machine. Does someone know where the Grizzly G0566 is manufactured?
It looks like Bernardo has a bit nicer guides (hard to judge from a catalog picture) but Holzkraft has a laser cut line indicator and nicer paint job. The motor may be different, too (Holzkr. rated 4kW, Bern. 3.75kW).

[Niels J. Larsen]

Sounds like you made the right choice then :D

Just a quick newbie question from a guy who's never used a bandsaw:
Why did you choose such a big beast ?

I mean - what jobs do you have to do that needs a saw with this size ?
From what I've read here, all that you usually use a bandsaw for is:

- curved sawing
- resawing of wood before jointing/planing
- joints (large tenons/dovetails etc.)

I'm not trying to get you to justify why you bought this machine - I want one too! ;)

/Niels

[Timo Christ]

Niels,

resawing at a reasonable speed and with repeatability requires a big saw with a big motor. See the "am i asking too much of a 14" saw" thread.
I want to do quite a bit of resawing, and i want to use the saw to make boards from "firewood" logs.
I asked Hema (the bandsaw mercedes) about ripping on a bandsaw with large cutting height, and they said it comes down to blade selection and first of all power. Anything below 3kW won't cut it, is what they told me.
I also plan some projects which require curved cuts with large cutting height, almost 30cm.
Also want to do dovetails etc on the bandsaw. I think this will become my primary saw, as my TS has a small table and weak motor.

Cleaned the shop a bit today to make room for the saw. Also built a small storage rack for planes and saws.. you'll get pics in the shop tour when the bandsaw is here.

Timo

[Pete Harbin]

Nice Timo! I've been using a large bandsaw in a class I'm taking, and I'm thinking I'll probably upgrade my badsaw now before I upgrade my tablesaw. I probably won't upgrade either for a while, but the bandsaw just moved up on the list ahead of the table saw when it does happen. :rolleyes:

It's really nice to have a bandsaw with power and size.

Pete

[Timo Christ]

Christian and all,
i found out where they make the Grizzly, Holzkraft, Bernardo bandsaws. It is in Taiwan, the company is called OAV Equipment. Link: www.oavequipment.com (http://www.oavequipment.com)
Unfortunately my saw didn't arrive yet, the shipping company messed up somewhere. :mad::mad: