Any tips for nailed flooring?

[Ole Anderson]

Last evening my son, his friend and I started laying 1200 sf of 1/2" T&G bamboo flooring. Got a HF flooring nailer using Bostitch 2" flooring cleats. I had to shim the foot (supposedly for 1/2" flooring) with a thickness of 2 washers to get it to sit properly and fire the cleats into the tongue in the right spot. Adjusted pressure to 65-70 psi to get a proper cleat penetration of the tongue. So far, so good. We anchored the first run up against the wall with my 15 ga finish nailer. Snapped a chalk line out in the room just past the underlayment padding to make sure the first run was in alignment. An obstruction projected two feet into the first run. When we made our first run past the obstruction, we were off by a strong 1/16", so there was a gap we couldn't close and everything behind us was nailed down. We all just sat there for 5 minutes thinking "dang, this isn't going to be easy". Looking back it appears we just weren't careful enough to get a good strong chalk line (probably close to 35 feet long) and didn't measure carefully enough off that line to get started.

I am used to click style flooring where you can "scootch" everything around to line up. No can do with nailed flooring. I am dreading going around the six foot long island, and really dreading going around the closet/base cabinets/fridge as we circle around from room to room.

Any tips on how to deal with the alignment issues as we move to our next obstacles? We could rip one side to match, but would loose the tongue. Please, those with experience doing this, not armchair answers.

[John Lanciani]

When I laid my bamboo flooring (continuous throughout a whole floor of my house with no transitions) I used these flooring clamps from Bessey; https://www.amazon.com/Bessey-SVH400XL-Flooring-Clamping-System/dp/B0000224PR They allowed me to get, and keep, all of my seams nice and tight. If you've only laid a half dozen or so rows you should be able to coax everything back into alignment with some determination and persistence. I did use staples though which are probably a little more forgiving than cleats.

[Wayne Lomman]

Probably a bit too late but it's best to mark your chalk line in the centre of the room and work out to the edges. Going with where you are up to, cut and dry fit your boards around obstacles before nailing down. 6 gaps at 0.5mm are better than one gap at 3mm if that is what will make it fit. Also see if you can invent some clamping system. I have when all else failed pulled sash cramps apart and reversed them to push against the opposite wall. I'm sure there are better ways than that but see what you can create. Cheers

[Adam Herman]

"off by a 16th" out of square with the wall? 1/16th from a full board? I laid about 1400 sf of 3/4 solid pre-finished hickory in our house. It came out pretty darn good. used cleats and a kobalt branded nailer. after the first few rows, just go for it. cut the pieces at an angle at the wall and cover the gap with the base. if there is no base, use shoe. The biggest thing i learned is that its not going to be perfect everywhere, and only the installer is going to notice. second biggest is that you don't want to end up with a 3/4 wide strip along the longest wall in the house. :rolleyes: (though i am the only one who is annoyed by it)

I did not use clamps. I could have used them in a few places but its probably good to have a small gap here and there for expansion and contraction. Over the past year i have noticed it even out a bit with the seasonal changes.

I would take out the island and floor under it. Most the the island i have delt with are not really attached to anything, including my own. I gutted the entire main floor and went under everything.

Do not floor in you dishwasher so that it can only be removed by ripping out the counter-top.

there is only one transition strip in my whole house as well, a t strip from the master-bath tile to the bedroom. i cut transition pieces out of flooring and groved or splined for direction changes in our bedrooms that are cantilevered and have joists going 90* to the rest of the house.

get rid of all the squeaks first. I put about 200 screws in the subfloor and spent a good amount of time making sure all the nails were tight, the sub-floor was perfectly clean, and the ply was not raised up at its joints. i used 15 lb felt paper to build up low spots.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Do not floor in you dishwasher so that it can only be removed by ripping out the counter-top.That should be inscribed on the door of every dishwasher.


I would take out the island and floor under it. Most the the island i have delt with are not really attached to anything, including my own.As would I....but...I'm also the guy that always wants to take the wall down to the studs also..;).

[Ole Anderson]

The 1/16" gap was where two boards either side of the wall were not coplanar. Everything else was as tight as can be, so the gap was noticeable. You are right, can't expect perfection. Just need to convince my son as he is trying to keep his fiancee (her house) happy. She does all the painting so it is done to her expectations. We will have a discussion tonight about floor expectations, she is a reasonable person. The island has had a base cabinet added to it so it is not one piece and of course it has a granite top added after. I have removed as much facing as possible and can't see how it it attached to the floor. I suspect 2x4 cleats (but no screws or nails to the cabinet) so the whole thing including 3'x6' granite top would have to be lifted up and that isn't going to happen. Floor is quite squeak free, that was my first question to them. Leaving the existing 3/4" oak under the dishwasher, did remove it under the stove.

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Adam. Time is running out on islands .

[Adam Herman]

Haha. I am that guy too... we started by wanting to put in new flooring, face lift the kitchen. Ended up taking out the entire kitchen, a partition wall and a structural wall and moving around all the dang appliances! :eek:

[David Helm]

Both Wayne and Adam are right on. During my carpenter career I spent a lot of time laying floors. One always starts from the center and works toward the walls. Any mistakes should be corrected over many rows rather than all at once. The shimming is necessary because the nailers are made for 3/4 inch standard strip floors. Pros use a straight slot screwdriver to force the planks together for nailing. Re kitchen cabinets and dishwashers, the floor needs to go under them for the aforementioned reasons.

[Shawn Pixley]

Sorry. I have no help for you. I wouldn't have laid it out the way you did. But since you've started and nailed one edge, there is little to do except adjust the best you can short of ripping it up and restarting.

I laid mine out with a carmelized border around the natural field. That was a layout pain - calculating upon the floor plank dimensions. All planks against the wall were ripped or scribed depending upon wall straightness and parallelism. I did pull it off though.

[Chris Padilla]

Any tips on how to deal with the alignment issues as we move to our next obstacles? We could rip one side to match, but would loose the tongue. Please, those with experience doing this, not armchair answers.

Lose the tongue and PL Construction Adhesive the tongueless boards down if that gets rid of the gap. I had to do that when going into a small closet that was kind of in the middle of the room. Not a big deal although it was in a closet and not in normal view. YMMV.

[Ole Anderson]

How do you start in the middle of the room when the tongues all run one direction and you can't nail the groove side? With click style that is sometimes possible, but even there you need to start at a wall and run out. Marking from the center and working back to a starting point to even up the edges, I understand. Is that what you are suggesting?

And we are doing the whole first floor, 5 rooms opening into one another (no doors). So even if I got one room even, who knows how the next room would work out?

And they are freshening up the house for sale.

[Chris Padilla]

How about a spline? Biscuits? Dominos?

[Adam Herman]

I laid it all out from one wall and worked across. everything worked out fairly well. if you start in the middle you glue a spline in the groove side and go from there.

i measured from the wall to each obstical, a short wall, the hallway, my stairs (split level house) and the far wall, divided each measurement by the flooring width, 3.25 for me, and found that i needed to start about 1.25 inches from the first wall. laid a chalk line and nailed the first course. built the rest of the house off that first course and came back later to fill in the gap between the wall and the first course.


as for your gap. i don't understand why you think you need to line up that board with some imaginary line. if it is against a wall just cut it to the wall. you do not need a full width plank, cut off whatever is in your way. it is actually better to have a full piece notched around a wall or floor vent than it is to try to piece it around. if it is the chalk line you are talking about, if its close who cares? just keep nailing it in tight.

there is a main area and a hall leading off of that parallel to the direction of my floor. i started at one wall and worked across the room to that point, the first course down the hall i laid a chalk line but paid almost no attention to it, i used an 8 foot level on the previous couple pieces to line up the next one. worked out great all the way down the hall, about 20 feet. Its about conforming the layout of the floor to the house, not making sure all your joints are perfectly parallel. you can fudge here and there and make it up as you go. i did have to backlay a couple closets, but i just used my 16 ga finish nailer and nailed right into the groove. easy peasy.

one more: don't nail into a glued in spline, the spline will explode. nailing one side of that board is plenty. I found it hard to use the flooring nailer sometimes because of the pressure you create when wacking it. it's great when you are running regular rows and want to tighten up the joints. I used my finish nailer on pieces i needed to get in the right spot.

[Dan Friedrichs]

How do you start in the middle of the room when the tongues all run one direction and you can't nail the groove side?

Cut a spline twice the width of a standard tongue and use it to butt two grooves together. Then you have tongues on both "outsides".

[David Helm]

How do you start in the middle of the room when the tongues all run one direction and you can't nail the groove side? With click style that is sometimes possible, but even there you need to start at a wall and run out. Marking from the center and working back to a starting point to even up the edges, I understand. Is that what you are suggesting?

And we are doing the whole first floor, 5 rooms opening into one another (no doors). So even if I got one room even, who knows how the next room would work out?

And they are freshening up the house for sale.


You spline the groove side of that first row and nail your merry way to the wall.

[Ole Anderson]

Turns out the 1/16" gap is only a problem (plus it was only about 8" long.)if you are on your knees, so much ado about nothing. Last night went better, but still haven't gotten to going around the island yet. Jay was cutting and tapping, I was tapping and playing whack-a-mole with the nailer. Actually kind of fun. Interesting that I had both red oak and hickory tapping boards, the oak started shredding where hit by the dead blow, the hickory hardly dented after 4 hours of pounding. As far as matching up, I could narrow a board by taking as much as 3/32 off the groove side and the tongue and still get them to engage. Any more and I could rip off the groove side and drag the pieces home (10 minutes away) and use my router table and a slot cutter bit to make a new groove. Seems I have a plan. Thanks for all of your suggestions.

One problem I have is either of our Bostitch 18 ga brad guns (my old one or his new one) either curves the brad back up through the top or crumples the brad 60% of the time when trying to nail into the tongue at an angle in places where we can't use the floor nailer. Straight down through the top it is ok, as is the 15 ga nail.

I suggested that if he plans on continuing to do remodels, a small job-site TS would be useful so he doesn't always have to bring boards to my house to rip. I was surprised when he and his lady went out and bought a Kobalt (Lowe's $279) TS. It is not a Bosch but it seems to work fine.

[michael langman]

When I put down my wide plank red oak flooring, I used the straightest long board I had for a starter board up against the entry wall to the room. But my long planks averaged 10-12 feet long.
I made 2 15 degree wedges out of 2x4 material and drilled a hole through the one wedge for a long deck screw. I then would put the wedges together against the board I was laying and screw the outer wedge into the sob floor. Then I would drive the inner wedge that was up against the boars to push the board up to the previously layed board. 2 sets of wedges at one time would push the board up nicely to the previous board.

[Myk Rian]

How do you start in the middle of the room when the tongues all run one direction and you can't nail the groove side? .
I'm wondering that also.
When our guy did the kitchen and dining room, he started at the doorwall, and went out from there. Turned out perfect.

[Ole Anderson]

I'm wondering that also.
When our guy did the kitchen and dining room, he started at the doorwall, and went out from there. Turned out perfect.

You lay the planks groove to groove and insert a shop made spline. Today's project at home is to start cutting some splines and also to see if I can duplicate the grooves on my router table. And to tweak the pad thickness to match the top of plank-to top of tongue thickness exactly. Nailing 1/2" planks means you need to be quite precise when sitting the nailer on the edge of the plank. One nice thing about using engineered planks like bamboo is that all edges are straight, unlike milled flooring which can warp.

[Bob Grier]

I would try very hard to remove the island and I would run new flooring under the dishwasher and even consider pulling cabinets and running under all or some of the cabinets if the cabinets are old or any chance they will be changed in next 10-20 years or the lifetime of the new flooring. Think what happens to flooring if cabinets are changed and when it is likely someone will want to change cabinets in the future. Old and new flooring can be woven together if flooring can be finished after installation but it is hassle.

[Ole Anderson]

We made it around the non-removable island last night without incident. Frustrating that: 1. too easy to ding the edge of the flooring even holding the floor nailer as carefully as possible 2. can't use the brad nailer at all in the tongue near the wall, have to drill and use 1.5" finish nails and a nail set 3. Wishing they would have chosen flooring with some relief so the dings wouldn't show. We have ripped up nearly a dozen planks so far that were dinged. Yes they are being very picky.

If this included a kitchen remod, we would have pulled all of the granite and base cabs as suggested. I did with my kitchen remod 3 years ago.

[Rich Engelhardt]

One problem I have is either of our Bostitch 18 ga brad guns (my old one or his new one) either curves the brad back up through the top or crumples the brad 60% of the time when trying to nail into the tongue at an angle in places where we can't use the floor nailer. Straight down through the top it is ok, as is the 15 ga nail.Probably too late for you now, but, it might save someone in the future.
Drill a pilot hole in the tongue or the face (if face nailing the piece), then drive a good old fashioned 2.5" finish nail. The big head of the finish nail holds it nice and tight.

None of my nailers - 18, 16 or 15 did the job. I had to resort to drilling and driving by hand.

[David Helm]

Generally brad nailers (brads) don't work on the hardness of bamboo. Older style finish nailers with heavier nails than brads are what to use for face nailing.