Should I Purchase Norton 3X Wheels And A Oneway Balancing System Or CBN Wheels?

[Dom Garafalo]

I'm a fairly new turner with a mixture of turning tools which include Benjamin Best, Hurricane, and a Harbor Freight set. Some are high speed steel and others are anybody's guess. As my turning skill improves I'll purchase better tools but right now I need to improve my sharpening setup.

Currently, I have a Rikon 1/2 HP low rpm bench grinder with the standard wheels that came with it and the Oneway grinding jig setup along with their Vari-grind jig. My problem is that the grinder with the standard wheels vibrates and drives me crazy. I've spent and wasted a lot of time trying to smooth the grinder out following all the many suggestions like re-clocking the wheels and putting paper shims under the cheap stamped flange washers, etc, etc. I've found that most changes are temporary at best and only minimize the vibration and not eliminate it.

I really want a smoother and more consistent sharpening system so I can spend most of my time learning to turn and improving my turning skills and therefore I've decided to purchase better quality wheels and ditch the ones I have.

My dilemma simply put is should I purchase:

1. Two new Norton 3X wheels along with a Oneway Wheel Balancing system?

OR

2. Two CBN wheels and be done with it?


I've read numerous articles and threads on various internet forums and vendor websites and need some input from the experienced folks on this site that may have struggled with the same problem.

I'd like your opinions please.

Thank you

[Bob Bouis]

The price difference is about $100, right? No brainer -- get the CBN. Most people here think they're worth it even if you already have good wheels.

[James Cheever]

Agree with Bob. CBN is the way to go.

[Adam Petersen]

CBN for sure.

[Roger Chandler]

CBN...hands down!

[John Keeton]

Give the tools of unknown steel to another beginner and go with the CBN wheels. This thread should result in a landslide vote of approval for CBN.

[Dwight Rutherford]

CBN=buy once, stay ballanced, don't wear down, what's not good about that?

[Richard Dooling]

I would definitely go with the CBN if you do not anticipate the need to grind softer metals like soft steels, aluminum and brass.

To quote reed Gray, "You might get away with it a time or two, but for anything but the lightest touch ups, keep it restricted to hardened steels, not soft carbon, or non magnetic materials."

Here is a link to his very good PDF on CBN wheels that also addresses issues you may encounter with mounting on your grinder:
http://www.robohippy.net/featured-article/ (http://www.robohippy.net/featured-article/)

Reed (aka robo hippy) is a regular and thoughtful contributor to this forum.

I have a Norton stone on the left and a 180 grit CBN on the right but eventually I want two grinders. I still have other household type grinding I have to do.

BTW the Oneway balancing system really does work but as you may know you need a 1" arbor hole in the wheel. Also note that if you buy the flanges individually you will need to specify a left or right-hand set and you will still need the balancing fixture base.

Richard

[Dom Garafalo]

Give the tools of unknown steel to another beginner

Do I have to do this? Is CBN incompatiable with tools other than HSS?

[Richard Dooling]

Maybe, for now, consider just bolting the grinder to a solid surface and get a better feel for what you want to do?

You can probably do a lot with some mods to your current setup. I'm not made of money. Still I do wish I had bought the CBN years ago.

[Joe Shanaphy]

I originally went with the Norton and the wheel balancing system when CBN first came out because I didn't want to pay the price. Once the prices dropped a bit I went to CBN and have never regretted it. If you decide on the Norton wheels I know where you can get the balancing system cheap! ;-)

[David M Peters]

Continuing the landslide, CBN. I have the same cheap Rikon grinder running vibration-free with two CBN wheels.

[Steve Peterson]

I would definitely go with the CBN if you do not anticipate the need to grind softer metals like soft steels, aluminum and brass.

I have a Norton stone on the left and a 180 grit CBN on the right but eventually I want two grinders. I still have other household type grinding I have to do.


I vote the same way. I have a CBN plus Norton stone and a cheap dressing tool to keep it flat. The Norton stone averages about twice the usage as the CBN wheel in my shop. I use it for cleaning up the ends of screws/bolts that I have hacksawed to length and other random grinding jobs.

Use the regular grinding wheel to sharpen the cheap lathe tools of unknown origin.

Steve

[Reed Gray]

Richard put the link to my article up there. It is a bit dated (meaning I could add a lot to it), but still pretty much correct. If you get one CBN wheel, get a 180 grit as it will do just about anything you need except for shaping a tool. I do use the Trend Lapping fluid on my wheel from time to time to help keep it clean. If you get 2 wheels, then a 180 and a 400 or 600 grit wheel. The 600 leaves a great burr and edge for finish cuts, but pretty delicate for heavy roughing on gouges or scrapers. I consider the 1/2 hp Rikon a bit light weight for the D Way wheels which are on steel hubs. The aluminum ones from Ken Rizza at Woodturning Wonders or some thing like that are lighter.

robo hippy

[Dom Garafalo]

Joe, you have a PM

[brian zawatsky]

I recently upgraded from Norton white weeks to 2 CBN wheels from Ken at Woodturners Wonders, and I wish I had done it months ago. Ken's wheels are aluminum, so light enough for your 1/2 hp grinder, and the 2 wheels were around 200 bucks for the set. You won't regret it.

[Dom Garafalo]

I would like to thank everyone for your fast and very valuable feedback.

It seems clear as was pointed out that I'm not ready to update to 2 CBN wheels yet since I still have a number of questionable turning tools that I use on a regular basis.

I think replacing one of my standard wheels with a 180 grit CBN wheel as Reed suggests makes sense. And until I can systematically afford to replace my questionable tools with quality HSS based ones, I'll need to keep a well balanced regular wheel.

My inclination is to purchase one lighter weight CBN wheel from Ken Rizza and buy one 80 grit norton 3X wheel to replace the other standard wheel I currently have.

I appreciate everyone's input which obviously has been most helpful.

Dom

[Thom Sturgill]

Like many I started with the Norton wheels and a cheap dresser. Then I bought a better system for dressing the wheel and drill bushings to stabilize it better. Noticed great improvement in quality of grind, but wheel started disappearing quickly. Faced with the prospect of buying new wheels every year or two, I bought a CBN wheel that had recently come on the market for a reasonable price. I sold the dressing system at quite a loss. Later bought a 600 grit wheel to go with the 180 grit that I had. I use a cheap 6" Ryobi grinder with the factory wheel and wire brush for other tasks.

[Dave Bunge]

I think replacing one of my standard wheels with a 180 grit CBN wheel as Reed suggests makes sense. And until I can systematically afford to replace my questionable tools with quality HSS based ones, I'll need to keep a well balanced regular wheel.

My inclination is to purchase one lighter weight CBN wheel from Ken Rizza and buy one 80 grit norton 3X wheel to replace the other standard wheel I currently have.

Dom

That's exactly the set up I have and for the same reasons (but on one of the older $100 Woodcraft brand grinders which I believe have a bit more starting power). At some point I will probably get a second grinder and use it for the tools with questionable steel, lawnmower blades, etc. Then I'll get a 2nd CBN wheel for my main woodturning grinder.

My grinder runs more smoothly now with CBN + Norton wheels than it did with the original wheels. And without doing anything special to balance the Norton wheel.

Dave

[Dom Garafalo]

I decided to purchase one 180 grit CBN wheel from Ken Rizza for my HSS tools and, since I have tools of questionable metal, one Norton 80 grit 3x wheel. Since I didn't want to take any chances, I also bought a Oneway wheel balancing kit that allowed me to balance the norton wheel.

What a difference! Virtually zero vibration which is what I wanted to achieve. The vortex won again.

Thanks again for the advice.