How to: Natural edge bowl

[William C Rogers]

This is my first attempt to turn a natural edge bowl. The wood is cherry at about 19% moisture content. I have roughed out the bowl around 1" + thick, 12" diameter and sealed it. I probably should have asked before I ever started, but was in the shop and decided to try it. My questions at this point is what to do with the bark, hoping it stays on. Or what should I have done? From the picture you can see greenish spots and natural debris. I did not put sealer or anything else on the bark at this time. How and when do you clean it? Do I seal it with shellac or anything?

[daryl moses]

If i see that the bark is starting to separate i'll put a little CA glue around the edge.

[Doug Herzberg]

I've only done a few of these, but I usually soak the bark in thin CA and then walk away from the fumes. I've never tried roughing one and letting it dry. I would fear the bark coming off before I got it back on the lathe. Someone with more experience will have to chime in on that. Good luck. It's looking good so far.

[Ron Rutter]

Why not just finish it! It is probably somewhat under 19% by now which isn't that wet. Just keep the CA close by in case you get some small cracks. I always wax the area beside the crack & am not sure that CA doesn't displace any wax in the crack.

[Bob Bergstrom]

Keeping the bark on a twice turned bowl is a gamble. Havested in the winter is the best chance, less water. I turn my natural edge bowl to completion and a thickness of 3/8". I super glue exterior side of the bark after it is shaped and shear cut. I then cut the wings and flood super glue on the inside of the rim bark and candium layer. Finish cutting the interior, and vacuum or jam chuck to finish the bottom. Cut the depression under the foot rim deep enough to sand the foot flat after a couple weeks of drying.

[William C Rogers]

Thanks to all of you. So here is my plan; flood the bark with thin Ca glue, back in the lathe tomorrow and turn finished size shooting for 3/8" thickness. Keep adding CA as I go to bark and adjacent wood of bark. The tree was cut in mid November, so hopeful bark will stay on. I'm guessing I put it in a brown paper bag to finish drying. Then all sanding is done off the lathe. Flatten the foot and finish. Right now wipe on poly is my thought. Is there a better finish choice?

[Ron Rutter]

William. I think what Bob meant is just CA the outside cut surface of the bark. Even this is not always necessary, but you will know!! I would sand when you are finished _ a challenge with NE bowls!! Then dry if you feel it is necessary & more sanding if necessary before finish. If you should apply the finish right after completing the bowl it tends to secure the bark as well ( most finishes ). Ron

[Bob Bergstrom]

Save some of the bark that you turn off while trimming it to final size. At times I have epoxied in pieces that have come off. Colored epoxy is great for filling in gaps between the cadavour bark and edge of the bowl rim. I have multiple colors of line chaulk to mix most colors, but sanding dust or coffee grounds will also work.

[William C Rogers]

Thanks. So thin CA at edge of bark adhesion to the wood. Finish and sand on lathe. Would you recommend applying dewaxed shellac and then sand to seal the wood or shellac after sanding to seal for drying. I will save the bark and also have two unturned blanks with bark if necessary. Good tip on colored epoxy.

[Bob Bergstrom]

You want the CA to penetrate the bark and the candium layer as much as possible. I don't put any finish on until the final sanding is all done. If you remove the bowl and chuck from the lathe and hold it inverted, you can dribble the CA from the candium layer toward the outer edge of the bark. Try to use pieces of bark that come from the same areas of the bowl when patching. End grain bark will show end grain on both sides of the bark compared to side grain bark.

[Joseph M Lary]

I have had my best luck getting my wood in late winter when the sap is not running through the bark ( dormant tree). the bark will swell and want to pull away . not saying it cant be done but I have better luck with that . I turn it green to finish size sand it to 220 or 320 in side and out . I leave a small tendon on the bottom to re chuck later . I cover the out side of the bowl with 3 layers of brown paper over the bark maybe down 2 inches tape in place , I will put the whole thing in 1 or 2 bags for 1 or 2 months .
I use the tendon to rechuch and finish sand and jamb chuck and turn off.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thi is my first attempt to turn a natural edge bowl. The wood is cherry at about 19% moisture content. I have roughed out the bowl around 1" + thick, 12" diameter and sealed it. I probably should have asked before I ever started, but was in the shop and decided to try it. My questions at this point is what to do with the bark, hoping it stays on. Or what should I have done? From the picture you can see greenish spots and natural debris. I did not put sealer or anything else on the bark at this time. How and when do you clean it? Do I seal it with shellac or anything?

Bill lots of suggestions on how o do it already offered, and I have some more :).

I have made quite a few natural edge bowls over the years, and I have found that wood that has been down for a while will have loose bark and is going to come off easily, also wood that is cut in the spring when the saps are running again, you will have that thin layer (Cambium) between the bark and the wood swollen up and very weak and easy to separate from the bark and the wood, later in the years this layer gets thinner and stronger, in dormant time it is the thinnest and strongest.


Then there are barks that do not shrink and other that do more, both can be problems to keep on, like the bark from Birch, this will not shrink as much as the wood and so it just becomes a loose layer on the wood, some other bark is weak and will loose layers easily, like Catalpa, so you can’t win them all, no matter what you do.

But using fresh wood cut in the winter is a good start, then turn it and keep a close eye on the cambium layer, if it shows that it might be coming loose, stop and carefully get some CA on the seam, the bark does often dry at a different rate as the wood, so you have to be on your toes and see what’s happening.

When turning be aware that the heel from the gouge can easily forse the bark off or damage it.

Here are some of the pieces that I turned and have pictures of quite a few more, also some without the bark on that can look also very nice, like the pointy burls.

353958 353957 353956 353951 353953 353952 353954

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I had the picture from the wood where it shows the cambium and the rest of a log buildup, but it was dropped by the software, so here is that picture.

354019
Also I forgot to mention, that yes you can rough turn a natural edge bowl and return it when dry, however very often the shape of these pieces do not show de change much, and can even improve if finish turned in one go.

I do have some rough turned natural edge bowls sitting but only pictures of one, the thing with that is you have to be careful as it isn’t hard to damage the bark, but if you want to return a piece later, it certainly can be done.

My normal drying is always been by placing the piece in a brown paper bag with nothing else, as shavings etc will induce mildew, place the bag in a cool place and let it dry slowly.

354020 354021 354022

Something like a hollow form I would finish turn and not rough turn and return, it would be pretty hard on the bark I expect, but have not really experience with it, not my fave turnings to do.

354023

[William C Rogers]

Leo, thanks for the input. I'm learning and the picture helps. I'm thinking now I should have rough turned this one. I started out at 19% MC. When down to 11/2" rough I was at 16% MC. Went ahead and turned it to size and next day about 8% MC. This is in a 4 day span. Guess what! CRACKED. Disappointing yes. It may have cracked even if rough turned. Cherry does dry fast. I really don't want to put it in the fireplace (where others have been cremated). My thought is to let it sit a week or so and fill the crack with powdered brass. Other ideas welcome. I did see evidence of it trying to crack and did put CA on it to try and limit the progression. However the stress was too much.

your bowls look about as perfect as perfect gets. I would love to make just one nice one. I know, practice.

354094

[robert baccus]

One trick that has worked several times for me on thin pieces is: place the piece in a loose ,sealed plastic bag with a wet rag--not touching of course. But first mark the crack with chevrons in pencil for relocation. Twenty four hours later the crack will usually close up and be invisible but for the chevrons. Spray lacquer lightly around the area and apply thin CA taking care to avoid runs. Finish, sign and sell. PS--noticed that you applied ca previously so you might try to remove that with acetone first as it might interfere with a tight closure.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo, thanks for the input. I'm learning and the picture helps. I'm thinking now I should have rough turned this one. I started out at 19% MC. When down to 11/2" rough I was at 16% MC. Went ahead and turned it to size and next day about 8% MC. This is in a 4 day span. Guess what! CRACKED. Disappointing yes. It may have cracked even if rough turned. Cherry does dry fast. I really don't want to put it in the fireplace (where others have been cremated). My thought is to let it sit a week or so and fill the crack with powdered brass. Other ideas welcome. I did see evidence of it trying to crack and did put CA on it to try and limit the progression. However the stress was too much.

your bowls look about as perfect as perfect gets. I would love to make just one nice one. I know, practice.

354094

Sorry to hear about that Bill, turning it in one go is the way to go, than stick it in a brown paper bag and let it dry, also make sure there isn’t already a split in the wood before you start, it always gets bigger, though a staple can help keeping it where it is or prevent it from happening like where I do know it will otherwise.

There are only a few that I did this way, with the bark in the crotch in this Black Cherry crotch, and the wood wet, I did expect this to open up, so I made a couple staples and drilled the holes and hammered the staples in.

The split being on the ends and the side going to shrink, I would loose the holes, and even if not these small holes are easily filled, I had two pieces about identical and I did both.

So 4 pictures that show the rough turned bowl wit the staples, one top side and one in the underside, next picture shows the dry piece on the chuck and you can see the way the wood dried, but the split stayed the same.
354113 354114 354115

Next is the finished bowl, then a picture of a Black Walnut crotch with a staple still in on the top side and an American Beech that had a very small split that I held with a staple, this one LOML has in use, and has used many times in the several years she has had it, still exactly like that, (staple I made from Stainless Steel)
354116 354117 354118

[William C Rogers]

Robert, I'll give that a try and see what happens. Yes there is som CA and I will use some acetone. I'm going to try hard to save it. This is my first and ther is always a learning curve. I have one more blank that is a candidate for natural edge. I'm thinking to turn down to about 1" or so and let it dry a couple of days on the lathe before going to finish size. Or do you just hope for the best.
Leo, your bowls seem to be thicker than mine. What thickness do you think is ideal? I was shooting for about 3/8" thickness, but went to 1/4 in some areas that may have contributed. I think I will shoot for 1/2" on the next one. Comments?