Advice for final touches of workbench build - Vise placement and finishing technique

[Lance Grucela]

I am building the Holzapffel bench based on Chris Schwartz and would like to get some input on the following two issues:

1) I have a Veritas twin screw vise and a (standard) quick release "front" vise. The plan uses (and extolls the virtues of) the twin screw vise as a front vise and a standard vice with dog holes in the front chop for the end vise. The veritas instructions and it's own workbench seem to suggest that the twin screw vise is best used as an end vise. I am now second guessing myself and wondering if I should deviate from the original plan to put the big twin screw vise at the end.... But I can't really think of why this would be more useful other than perhaps for using to glue up (instead of clamps) which I am not really planning to use the bench for.

2). Finishing: I have already read the many finishes used (and combinations thereof) and have settled on following the plans to use Danish Oil (or similar). My question is whether the bench is finished the same way I would a piece of furniture by sanding up to 220 grit on l surfaces before applying finish. Or do I just plane things clean and then use the finish? My instinct is to sand it smooth as any other piece and then apply the finish but all of the plans seem to suggest that the vises should be installed first, then finish. For some reason I am interpreting this to imply that there's no sanding or other finishing technique required and that you can just wipe on the few coats and be done.

Thanks in advance for your insight!

[William Fretwell]

1) It depends how you see yourself using the bench. Twin screw at the end looks nice, will it let you do everything you could do with a front install? (Glue up does not count). Will the twin screw be in the way for planing with a front install? Just think about each option and how you expect to use the bench.
2) Plane and oil and oil and oil............ Want to wear it away, work on it!

[Rob Luter]

I put my twin screw on the front and I wish it had gone on the end. It gets in the way sometimes.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2583/4103275307_f30a5080da_b.jpg

[Lance Grucela]

thanks for the quick replies!

Rob- I will def consider your experience, although mine is 84"L so do you think that would be an issue if your bench were longer?

William-- As I just mentioned, I feel like it wouldn't be in the way so much since I made the top longer...
As far as the plane + oil goes that makes sense for the top for sure, especially since I'm going to have to flatten it using a router after the final glue up which was not as perfect as I had hoped. What about the other surfaces (base, underside, etc.)? Should I also just plane things flush and oil, or would sanding those be beneficial at all?

Another thought re: the twin screw vise on front is that I drilled the holes in the legs and like the idea that a really large workpiece can (supposedly) be easily clamped to the front w/ it and the co planer legs.

[William Fretwell]

thanks for the quick replies!


William-- As I just mentioned, I feel like it wouldn't be in the way so much since I made the top longer...
As far as the plane + oil goes that makes sense for the top for sure, especially since I'm going to have to flatten it using a router after the final glue up which was not as perfect as I had hoped. What about the other surfaces (base, underside, etc.)? Should I also just plane things flush and oil, or would sanding those be beneficial at all?

Another thought re: the twin screw vise on front is that I drilled the holes in the legs and like the idea that a really large workpiece can (supposedly) be easily clamped to the front w/ it and the co planer legs.

For a longer bench it won't be in the way as much but a smaller front vise would work just as well with the holes in your legs. The whole wide vise concept seems floored to me. While visually appealing, it's not a moxon vise which is useful, the double dog holes on an end mount are seldom if ever useful. I would return it and get a smaller front vise.

I would finish the underside the same way as the top. Sanding is not beneficial it just destroys the surface compared to planing. After planing a cabinet scraper is the next best finish.

[Mike Manning]

I cannot add anything to the comments already posted except to say pictures, pictures, pictures...without pictures it is just some fantasy!

Great looking table Rob! I'm planning on doing a bench with SYP and seeing yours has gotten me really pumped to do it!

[Lance Grucela]

Thanks all for the input, I really appreciate it.

I've been taking pictures throughout and will post them once I finish up, which I hope will be soon... Been working on this nights and weekends since around Thanksgiving.

[Erik Christensen]

my 2 cents re surfacing....

it is a workbench - smooth = slippery and that is the opposite of what you want plus.... it is a tool - its value is in its functionality not in its aesthetics (unless you made it out of purpleheart :)). My benchtop is hard maple - planed & done - BLO re-coat when needed but other than that it shows the "patina of use"

[Stew Hagerty]

I'm just getting ready to replace the single screw full width end vise with the Veritas Twin-Screw myself. In addition to using it as a regular vise and a Moxon vise, I will be using it as a tail vise. I have a quick-release on the front at the oposite end of the bench.

I wouldn't try to get your bench all that smooth actually. You don't want your work sliding all over the place. I would plane it flat then leave it be.

As for finish... A very popular benchtop finish, and the one that I use, is a very old formula. It's a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 blend of odorless mineral spirits (originally it would have been turpentine, but it smells), BLO, and beeswax. Rub it in with a brush on a drill to generate heat and melt it into the surface. let it dry, wipe off any obvious puddles, and start building stuff. I reapply once a year or whenever it looks like it could use a refresher. One side benefit is that glue won't stick to it.

[Stew Hagerty]

my 2 cents re surfacing....

it is a workbench - smooth = slippery and that is the opposite of what you want plus.... it is a tool - its value is in its functionality not in its aesthetics (unless you made it out of purpleheart :)). My benchtop is hard maple - planed & done - BLO re-coat when needed but other than that it shows the "patina of use"

Bingo Erik. Don't worry about every little mark, cut, and dent. You're going to be resurfacing it every year or two to keep it dead flat. Besides, like Erik said, it's a WORKBENCH unless it's a showbench.

[Frank Pratt]

After planing it flat, I sanded the surface to 80 grit with the ROS & then applied a couple of coats of Minwax? Tung Oil. The surface is pretty grippy & the odd glue drop that gets on it pops right off.

Too smooth a surface makes for a slippery surface. Something you don't want on a workbench.

[Lance Grucela]

OK so I'm intrigued by the 1/3 formula and also read Danish Oil should work well, both of which I haven't used. I do already have and love Liberon "finishing oil". Iys not cheap but I've loved the results on everything I've used it for this far. After looking online at Danish Oil it doesn't appear to be much cheaper and of course I'd prefer to use what I've already got. Is there a considerable difference between the Liberon finishing oil and the other choices, or is it just their version of the 1/3 mixture??

[Mason Truelove]

nice table.


I put my twin screw on the front and I wish it had gone on the end. It gets in the way sometimes.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2583/4103275307_f30a5080da_b.jpg

[Stew Hagerty]

OK so I'm intrigued by the 1/3 formula and also read Danish Oil should work well, both of which I haven't used. I do already have and love Liberon "finishing oil". Iys not cheap but I've loved the results on everything I've used it for this far. After looking online at Danish Oil it doesn't appear to be much cheaper and of course I'd prefer to use what I've already got. Is there a considerable difference between the Liberon finishing oil and the other choices, or is it just their version of the 1/3 mixture??

The difference is that the mix is 1/3 wax.

NOTE: Do Not Do This Over An Open Flame!!!

Heat the Blo and melt in the wax, then SLOWLY & gradually add the mineral spirits (the mix will seize as you add the MS but keep heating and it'll reliquify). Pour it into a jar of some kind and let cool. What you'll end up with is a creamy soft material that will melt easily with just the heat from your hand. Spread it on your benchtop, rub it in with your hands, the Chuck a stiff bristle "waxing brush" into your drill and give the top a good rubdown. Repeat as needed.

[Robert Hayward]

Could this 1/3 1/3 1/3 mixture be warmed / heated to a liquid state then applied for better penetration ?

[glenn bradley]

Twin screw on front and one not yet installed for the tail. Lovin it. I have used just BLO on my last three benches (all surfaces) followed a week later with some paste wax (top only); wax refreshed every couple of years or so (or after cleaning up a mess but, that never happens). Glue drips pop right off.


353800

[William Fretwell]

Could this 1/3 1/3 1/3 mixture be warmed / heated to a liquid state then applied for better penetration ?

If you heat that mixture a fire is very likely! The spirits in that formula are to aid penetration and avoid heating.
My preferred method is pure BLO heated carefully to smoking hot then applied with a 000 wire wool pad and small barbeque tongs. The oil at several hundred degrees blasts the water out of the wood and replaces it with oil. Re-heat the oil as to go to just smoking and remove from the heat. I have a dedicated saucepan for this job. After 15 minutes wipe off ALL the excess with rags.

The RAGS will spontaneously combust (this oil is famous for it), soak them in water and throw away outside your house!

Two applications a week apart really develops a nice colour. The third application I add some beeswax to the oil for the underside of the bench only to help seal it. With time I add coats of Tung oil / BLO as the years go by. If you glue up on the bench I would wax it.

One added benefit of BLO; it's anti fungal so your bench will resist rot a little better.

[Stew Hagerty]

Could this 1/3 1/3 1/3 mixture be warmed / heated to a liquid state then applied for better penetration ?

I don't know why not. I use it on a project occasionally and I have warmed up the wood before applying it. You can't exactly put your workbench in the oven though. Although, it melts the instant it touches your hands, or with the slightest amount of friction, so it doesn't take much.

[William Fretwell]

I don't know why not. I use it on a project occasionally and I have warmed up the wood before applying it. You can't exactly put your workbench in the oven though. Although, it melts the instant it touches your hands, or with the slightest amount of friction, so it doesn't take much.

Yes Stew I agree that warming to liquefy is unlikely to be a problem and as later treatments it is a very efficient use of materials. For the initial treatments however having beeswax in the formula may be counter productive. The initial treatments are to get as much oil as deep in the wood as possible. This is very difficult as scratches soon reveal. Wax will not penetrate the wood like oil and just impede the passage of oil. Solvents carry the oil into the wood. With the exception of end grain it is hard to oil wood so I prefer the most extreme heating and application to start, even though it is wasteful.

[Robert Engel]

Lance, in the end I don't think it matters what you seal it with. I don't think an expensive oil is necessary. I use a simple mixture of BLO/Turpentine 75/25. Initially I flooded it and recoated every day for 3 days. I recoat it only as needed if I've scraped off some glue or something.

Yup. Its going to get christened be prepared for that. The first project I built on my nice new bench I remember sliding a carcase across the benchtop and a big glob of hard glue gouged a track in my beautiful maple top.

As far as resurfacing, yes since wood can move, I think check it once in a while with a straight edge and winding sticks, but I would never totally resurface a bench I can't imagine it getting that warped.

BTW, some advocate using a toothing plane to rough up the surface. I think Schwarz recommends this.

I hope I'm answering your question.

[Lance Grucela]

Thanks again for all the info... I flattened the top yesterday with a router sled setup an am almost ready to mount the vises before finishing. As with many new operations, I usually figure things out about halfway through and since I didn't have a scrap benchtop to practice on, the real one had to serve as the warm-up and final product. The bad news is that the router bogged down once before I got the speed control down to handle the varying thickness of the top (rough glue-up) and I learned to install cleats on the bottom of the sled after it fell onto the bench, creating about a 1/8"deep gouge front and center. At first I was bummed, but then realized that it will be better to never have the perfect benchtop so that I don't obsess over keeping it that way. Also there is a fari amount of texture thanks to the lines left between passes, so after a ton of scraping it's flat but "textured". All in all, I'm glad it turned out that way.

I've decided to go with the 1/3 recipe using BLO, mineral spirits, and (non-poly, satin finish) spar-varnish but I've still got to get the vises mounted and dog holes drilled first.

[Chris Hachet]

Thanks again for all the info... I flattened the top yesterday with a router sled setup an am almost ready to mount the vises before finishing. As with many new operations, I usually figure things out about halfway through and since I didn't have a scrap benchtop to practice on, the real one had to serve as the warm-up and final product. The bad news is that the router bogged down once before I got the speed control down to handle the varying thickness of the top (rough glue-up) and I learned to install cleats on the bottom of the sled after it fell onto the bench, creating about a 1/8"deep gouge front and center. At first I was bummed, but then realized that it will be better to never have the perfect benchtop so that I don't obsess over keeping it that way. Also there is a fari amount of texture thanks to the lines left between passes, so after a ton of scraping it's flat but "textured". All in all, I'm glad it turned out that way.

I've decided to go with the 1/3 recipe using BLO, mineral spirits, and (non-poly, satin finish) spar-varnish but I've still got to get the vises mounted and dog holes drilled first.


Good luck, you are in the home stretch.

[Lance Grucela]

Finally figured out how to share individual photos on a forum using Google Photos.... As I mentioned, I will post an album when I'm all done, but here are a few to show were I am now:

353906
Half of the top hit with scraper after router flattening.
353907

353908
Pre-flattening.

[David Eisenhauer]

You have a bench! Scraper doing it's job.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Te virtues of the twin screw as an end vise is that you can line up the dog holes and clamp long boards for planing. If you put the quick release on the face, it will work fine with a holdfast at the other end for edge planing long boards.

My mixture for benches is 8oz pure gum turpentine, 8oz RAW linseed oil, and 1oz beeswax (but I probably use more than one ounce. I don't measure it- I just go by gut instinct.) You don't need to heat the beeswax- just shave it in with a cheese grater, which you will never ever be able to use again for any other purpose because the beeswax will forever be stuck to it, and shave it into the pure gum turpentine. (Okay, you could probably melt it off, but don't use the wife's grater!). The turpentine will dissolve the beeswax. Now add the raw linseed oil, stir, and apply to the bench. Buff it to a shine if you like. You can also use a pollisoir on it. If you don't like the smell of turpentine, add some lemon oil or sandalwood oil, or even bay oil. I get bay leaves locally off the tree. They smell like cinnamon- in fact, the place I get them from is called "Cinnamon Bay."

This bench finish is impervious to glue- even epoxy. Occasionally you can refresh it with some wax to maintain the glue-inhibiting qualities. What I like about this finish is it is not slippery.

Oh, and don't fear the raw linseed oil. The pure gum turpentine acts as a drying agent, and despite the myths it cures in a few days, although my last bench I used the very next day.

[Lance Grucela]

Thanks again for all the insight along the way. I finally finished up and wanted to share pics. Here's a link to the album:

https://goo.gl/photos/7e6LrmpYrnm7doEB9

Enjoy!

[David Eisenhauer]

Nice bench and thanks for the photos. Looks like the vise went in OK. I had envisioned that you wanted it as an end vise but you have one of those to. Good stuff and congratulations.