Noob in need of assistance: Water Based Poly

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

As I inferred in the title, I'm a noob to woodworking in general but I learn quick. Been working with Oil Based Poly to finish furniture projects and I've been mostly happy with the outcomes. However, my current project is made of cedar (which I've used oil based poly on before) and this particular wood has some beautiful white, "rose", and even what is closer to purple than anything, coloration that I don't want to ruin by covering it with the amber tint that comes from the OBP. So I thought, I'll just use Water Based Poly to achieve the glossy, clear finish I'm after. All I can say after way too much time and too many coat/sand down/re-coat attempts, trying to get the water based applied smoothly and without blemishes... I'm on the verge of loosing my hair a few decades early. I thought I'd try to dilute the poly with thinner to make a wipe-on brew, but this is water based, and I don't think that dog will hunt. I'm down to the following ideas: 1) Sand the Water-based Brush-on Poly smooth, and apply a thin coat of wipe on poly (oil-based over the water based brush-on) to finish it, and accept whatever "ambering" occurs, or strip all of the WB'd Poly off the dadgum thing and take a whack at whatever those with far more experience and wisdom than I (just about everyone) would recommend.
*Can I make the water based into a "wipe-on"?
*Can I wipe on the oil based over the water based?
*Am I barking up the tree with a bear in it instead of the one with a squirrel (aka wrong tree)?

Thanks Y'all,
-Higgy Baby

[Andy Giddings]

You don't say which brand of WB Poly you are using or what you used to apply the finish so far? I would not try wiping on a WB poly. Either a good quality foam brush or a fine synthetic hair brush (Golden Taklon from Homestead Finishing works very well) or spray if you have one. Gloss finish is going to show every mark unfortunately. If the finish isn't flowing out, thin slightly with water. Don't go over any areas that are drying and try to maintain a wet edge.

In terms of prep - sand down the existing finish until totally smooth. If you do want to use an oil based on top, you need to be absolutely sure the WB has fully dried. Use the manufacturer's recommendations as a guide but I'd leave for at least 24hrs

[John TenEyck]

Wiping is a loser, don't do it. And don't put OB poly over it unless you want an amber color. Adding 5 to 10% water will give you more working time to brush it on uniformly. I just brushed GF's HP Poly on a couple of door panels with a 2" foam brush and they came out beautifully. The RH was only 35%, too. HP Poly and EnduroVar are to WB products that I've found to brush very well.

John

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I think the purple in that cedar is going to turn brown no matter what.

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

Been using Minwax Polycrylic and I've tried using Purdy Nylox brush and Wooster foam varnish brush as well. I've been expecting some level of impurity due to the gloss, but the primary issue has been brush lines and areas where there are two sections meeting at a 90* angle with the grain directions flowing perpendicular. I think the finish not flowing out is my issue- I've done about as good a job as I can with not over brushing or pulling any drying areas and sanding smooth between coats with 220 or higher. I wasn't sure if simply adding water to dilute the finish was an option, but I think that may solve most of my problems- I'm sure the rest are attributable to what we called "LOFT" when I was in the PGA program... Lack Of ####ing Talent!
I am starting to think spray with this particular project.
Thanks for the help Andy

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

I had a feeling that was what would happen eventually- I remembered hearing something about that I just wasn't sure.

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

Enough said. haha. Cheese cloth benched.
Are you in the brush on camp all the way or just with water based? I will have to try out the HP Poly and EnduroVar. What did you mean by "The RH was only 35%"?

[Scott Brader]

I just used the GF HP on a project for the first time. I sprayed it just because I was afraid of the difficulty in keeping a wet edge on the piece. It turned out beautifully and has me hooked! I have always used various oil based products in the past, but I had to go WB this time because it's too cold for me to spray in my garage (my usual "spray booth") and I won't spray any oil products in the house. That left me with WB options and I'm glad I did it. I may never use an OB product again after seeing how beautiful it turned out and how easy it was to spray and clean up.

Scott

[Andy Giddings]

Ryan, wiping some (not all) oil based finishes is much easier than using other methods. Waterlox and Arm R Seal are two very easy wiping finishes that give great results. RH is Relative Humidity and 35 is on the dry side for WB finishes - which means it will be difficult to maintain a wet edge and may not flow out easily unless thinned

[John TenEyck]

Scott, happy to hear you liked the HP Poly. It truly is a great product. Just don't use it when you need good chemical durability because it's a poor choice. Anything with ammonia in it will easily damage it, as will moderate heat, acetone, and other strong chemicals. Enduro Clear Poly sprays just as easily as HP Poly, looks the same, and is far more chemically durable, almost equal to EnduroVar. The only thing Clear Poly lacks compared to HP Poly is the the UV stabilizer package, but I haven't seen any yellowing in the 3 years I've been using it.

John

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

Ahhh... Relative humidity.. I see... Thanks Andy.

[Scott Brader]

John,
Thanks for the info! This project is nightstands, so they shouldn't be exposed to chemicals. I'll remember the Enduro Clear Poly and EnduroVar for future projects. I have been using General Finishes products almost exclusively for the last year, or so. I have been very happy with the finish on my projects whether it's been Gel Stain, WB Dye Stain, WB Stain or OB/WB topcoats. Plus, I like supporting a Wisconsin company. Their headquarters is about fifteen minutes from my house. I

Scott