Sander Suggestions

[Stew Hagerty]

I have been considering getting a new RO sander. Mine old Craftsman Professional is on it's last legs.

I have been looking at the Mirka Ceros, Mirka Deros, Festool ETS EC 125/3 EQ (Brushless RO), and the Festool Rotex.

Any comments, suggestions, recommendations?

[Bill Adamsen]

Very happy with my Festool ETS EC 150/3 (1+ years use?). It has replaceable pads of varying softness and works very well with the Festool dust collection system. Best hand sander of this ilk I have owned. On par with the pneumatics and with better dust collection.

[Jim Becker]

I use my ETS 150/3 for 98% of my sanding and enjoy the quality of the tool, the quality of the work and the lack of vibration to my hands. (the last was the original primary reason I made the investment nearly 10 years ago)

[Bill Sutherland]

I love my Rolex and 150 FEQ.

[Stew Hagerty]

Very happy with my Festool ETS EC 150/3 (1+ years use?). It has replaceable pads of varying softness and works very well with the Festool dust collection system. Best hand sander of this ilk I have owned. On par with the pneumatics and with better dust collection.


I use my ETS 150/3 for 98% of my sanding and enjoy the quality of the tool, the quality of the work and the lack of vibration to my hands. (the last was the original primary reason I made the investment nearly 10 years ago)

Can you use Abranet with the Festool sanders?

[Stew Hagerty]

I love my Rolex and 150 FEQ.

What do you like about the Rotex over one of the low profile brushless models? Does the Dual-Mode really make that much of a difference?

[Ben Rivel]

Another vote for the ETS EC 150/3. So far mine has been very nice. Although now that I know you can use the 6" pads on the ETS EC 125/3 but not the 5" pads on the ETS EC 125/3 I might have gone with the ETS EC 125/3. I at least have the Pro 5 LTD if I want finer/smaller but there are no pad changes for that. Rotex's were too heavy IMO and I dont need the aggressiveness they offer. If I did I would have gone with one. Although the Rotex 90 FEQ with its specialty shaped pads is tempting. Down the line perhaps.

[Timothy Shouldice]

I have the Festool 150/5 ETS EC and absolutely love it. It is ridiculously overpriced but it is my single most used tool. It can be aggressive or it can be nice finishing sander. It is nice to hold and easy to control. I love the brake that stops it almost immediately so I can set it right down on workbench. I easily spend 20% less time sanding with it than with my previous basic Rigid ROS. To me, that translates into hours per month of time saved. Festool says this is a 'rough' sander and the 150/3 is the 'finish' sander but I honestly don't follow this line of reasoning (other than to sell more tools). I've also heard many good things of the Mirka's.

[Sam Murdoch]

Can you use Abranet with the Festool sanders?

Pretty much all I use with my ETS150/3.

[Larry Edgerton]

I love my Rolex and 150 FEQ.


I find Rolex to be to heavy, but it does keep good time.:D

[Bill Sutherland]

I find so many uses for the RoTex. From sanding down my large deck to shaping wood there is nothing I've seen that can be so aggressive and when used with fine paper, so fast in finishing. The dust collection is not up to the 150feq but since I've used the RoTex mostly outside it hasn't been a issue

[Stew Hagerty]

Although now that I know you can use the 6" pads on the ETS EC 125/3 but not the 5" pads on the ETS EC 125/3 I might have gone with the ETS EC 125/3.

Ben, I did not know that. The 5" was my first choice because it's what I've been used to, and I have a whole bunch of 5" hook & loop disks on hand. However, after seeing everyone vote for the 150/3 I was thinking more about that one. But, if I can use a 6" pad on the 125/3 that would be perfect. I could use the 6" with Abra net for heavier work and switch back to the 5" and standard paper disks for the finer stuff.

[Andy Giddings]

+1 on the Festool ETS EC 150/3 - plenty of power, light-weight and the usual excellent dust extraction

[Doug Filo]

All I can say is my guys fight over the deros and will wait for it instead of the festool ets's so I bought 2 more deros so they would all have one. We had the same problem when I baught a new sawstop ics table saw we know have 2!

[Matt Hardy]

500 bones is insane for a tool of its kind but you all make me want to go out and buy one. Insanely overpriced. I could see if it was $300. Geez the peer pressure.

[David Kumm]

I'm probably way in the minority here but I love my Dynabrades. I need a large compressor because of the machine rehabbing I do so not an issue. The air sanders are light, pretty cheap, and last forever. Dave

[Mark Carlson]

My favorite sander is the festool 2e half sheet sander. Great for large projects. I often mount it in my vice and bring smaller parts like boxes to it. Love that sander.

[Martin Wasner]

I'm probably way in the minority here but I love my Dynabrades. I need a large compressor because of the machine rehabbing I do so not an issue. The air sanders are light, pretty cheap, and last forever. Dave



Most of the time I'll take a ceros over the dynabrade. I have both and plenty of air. There's applications where the dynabrade is preferred though.

[Ben Rivel]

Ben, I did not know that. The 5" was my first choice because it's what I've been used to, and I have a whole bunch of 5" hook & loop disks on hand. However, after seeing everyone vote for the 150/3 I was thinking more about that one. But, if I can use a 6" pad on the 125/3 that would be perfect. I could use the 6" with Abra net for heavier work and switch back to the 5" and standard paper disks for the finer stuff.Yea that was why I ended up with the 6", everyone was saying that was the one to get and I didnt find the thread talking about that advantage of the 5" until after it was too late.

[Warren Lake]

have four generations of Dynabrades they are all different. One of them is super light think composite and its great for doing bullnoses and stuff where you want to whip it around on a radius, have a 1/4 air line from the Pnumatics industry it has no weight so doesnt restrict your movement, it restricts air the little line but just use a higher pressure. the one before better for heavier work than that one. So not just brand different models. Have the Makita 6040B only ever used it as a polisher, old days Rockwell half sheet sanders. Also have a little straight line one air forgot the name its good for certain things, depends what you are sanding with all this stuff and what you use. most of the time straight line block hand stuff after any air sander.

[Stew Hagerty]

Yea that was why I ended up with the 6", everyone was saying that was the one to get and I didnt find the thread talking about that advantage of the 5" until after it was too late.

You don't happen to have a link to that thread do you?

[Bill Dindner]

I like to have a Festool Rotex 125 and ETS 150/3, so much versatility with that setup.

[Ben Abate]

My vote is the Rotex 150. I've been using the same one for 12 plus years. It's my go to sander. I do have other FESTOOL sanders but for getting the job done it's amazing. Buffing, sanding and in the rotex mode it's a beast and will take care of any thing with the correct paper on it. I've never used the 125/5" Rotex I'm sure it's a great sander also. They are a bit heavy but that has never been a problem for me. It removes stock easily. It's not a finish sander

[Alex Snyder]

My favorite sander is the festool 2e half sheet sander. Great for large projects. I often mount it in my vice and bring smaller parts like boxes to it. Love that sander.

I'll throw another vote in for the ole' RS2E too. Once I bought it I don't know how I got through life without it. And oh yeah, that 150/3 doesn't suck either ;)

[Larry Edgerton]

If anyone is in the market for a heavier 6", I bought this Bosch after a side by side comparison with the comparable Festool. Model # ROS65VC-6 It sand faster, has less vibration, and dust pickup seems to be just as good. I have used it for a year now and shows no signs of aging. Happy at half the price.

[Bill Adamsen]

I also have a Rotex 150 ... I use it where I might have previously used a belt sander. Example might include heavy floor sanding (areas the floor sanders will not be able to reach) when installing cabinets ... and then also on boats especially plastic or heavy paint removal. I would not tend to grab the Rotex for cabinetwork or furniture - because it is heavy and also the stroke is 5mm minimum.

One thing I noticed which is really annoying is that the ETS and Rotex have different pad mounts. So you need to buy the pads required for each unit. Which brings us to the other comment about the ETS125/150 ... they have comparable specs (weight, power) but while the 150mm pads fit on the 125, the 125mm pad does not fit the 150. Both of these I would term client disatisfiers. There is actually more to that from the Festool User Group ... some questions about the brake not working or possibly working. I added the link so folks could evaluate for themselves.


The ETS EC 150 will not accept the 125 mm pad. The sanders have different shafts. The 150 sanders have a keyed shaft with wings, whereas the 125 has flats but not wings. I can send pics if needed. The soft pad for the 150 sanders is thinner than the 125 mm pad and therefore does not engage the pad brake. Also, the balance between the 5 mm stroke 150 and the 3 mm stroke 150 are not the same.


http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/ets-ec-125150/

[Sam Murdoch]

I also have a Rotex 150 ... I use it where I might have previously used a belt sander. Example might include heavy floor sanding (areas the floor sanders will not be able to reach) when installing cabinets ... and then also on boats especially plastic or heavy paint removal. I would not tend to grab the Rotex for cabinetwork or furniture - because it is heavy and also the stroke is 5mm minimum.



My assessment of the RO150 (and 125) EXACTLY. They can do the entire range of work but they are a compromise as finish sanders. The ETS 150/3 is so excellent for finish work compared to the ROs. If you can only afford one however and some of the above mentioned work is expected along with some finishing - the RO is the one. Just to be clear - I also own the ETS150/3 and since that purchase I never pick up the RO for finish work.

[Ben Rivel]

You don't happen to have a link to that thread do you?Here ya go: LINK (http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/ets-ec-125150/)

[Ryan Jones]

Buy a $50 ROS and put the $450 to something more important. Festool isn't worth the price if you're on a budget. Honestly, not even tradesman get festool in the field. If you don't have anything else to spend your money on, and clean your tools with rubbing alcohol every time you use them and like to see how pretty they look on the wall, get festool. If you actually do work and have better things to spend your money on, get something else.

THAT SAID, the domino is worth the steep price if you're doing a lot of M+T joinery. This saves a shitton of time and makes up for the price. But you're going to have to do a lot of projects to validate the purchase. Even the tenons they sell are outrageously priced.

Not for the festool purchasers, might give you a heart attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezp-_DcUgg

[Eric Anderson]

I have the Rotex 125 and the ETS ec 125. The Rotex can take down stock faster than my PC belt sander and the dust collection is great. The Rotex 150 has a larger surface area (about 30% larger) and thus better for larger areas (or at least faster), but I find the 125 more ergonomic and lighter and easier to use and since I already have the 5" sandpaper for the Rotex, went with the ec 125 so I could use a single sand paper size for both. If you are not sanding a lot of big table tops, you may be fine with the smaller foot print of the 125's. While I have gone to 220 with the Rotex, the ETS EC is much smoother and easier to handle than the Rotex, so I do the rough sanding with the Rotex and finish with the ETS EC. Can't stay away from the green koolaid nor the yellow mustard monsters. They keep calling me back.

[Stew Hagerty]

I have the Rotex 125 and the ETS ec 125. The Rotex can take down stock faster than my PC belt sander and the dust collection is great. The Rotex 150 has a larger surface area (about 30% larger) and thus better for larger areas (or at least faster), but I find the 125 more ergonomic and lighter and easier to use and since I already have the 5" sandpaper for the Rotex, went with the ec 125 so I could use a single sand paper size for both. If you are not sanding a lot of big table tops, you may be fine with the smaller foot print of the 125's. While I have gone to 220 with the Rotex, the ETS EC is much smoother and easier to handle than the Rotex, so I do the rough sanding with the Rotex and finish with the ETS EC. Can't stay away from the green koolaid nor the yellow mustard monsters. They keep calling me back.

Thank you for an excellent post Eric. I have been going back & forth and I think you may have just convinced me about the ETC EC 125.

[Sam Murdoch]

Buy a $50 ROS and put the $450 to something more important. Festool isn't worth the price if you're on a budget. Honestly, not even tradesman get festool in the field. If you don't have anything else to spend your money on, and clean your tools with rubbing alcohol every time you use them and like to see how pretty they look on the wall, get festool. If you actually do work and have better things to spend your money on, get something else.

THAT SAID, the domino is worth the steep price if you're doing a lot of M+T joinery. This saves a shitton of time and makes up for the price. But you're going to have to do a lot of projects to validate the purchase. Even the tenons they sell are outrageously priced.

Not for the festool purchasers, might give you a heart attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezp-_DcUgg

IYHO :rolleyes: "Festool isn't worth the price if you're on a budget." This (and your Domino comments) are certainly fair statements. The remainder of your opening statement is not borne out by my Festool usage or that of many other "tradesmen"/women I know. As expensive as the Festool line is those that I own have been well worth the investment. They are used hard and serve well. IMHO :rolleyes:

[Ryan Jones]

Fair. That's what makes the market what it is I guess. If everyone wanted the same type of tool at the same price point, then there wouldn't be a market, just a ticket taker.

A sander is a sander is a sander.. it is a motor that spins.. nothing special. A $50 sander will get you to the same place a $600 sander will. The $600 sander is better if you're working in a place where you can't have any dust.

The domino is so much better than a biscuit joiner, because it actually does something the other tools don't. So it's worth it. Just like a toll highway, it costs more but saves you money in the long run. $600 sanders? not so much. $1000 circular saws with brass bushings? LOL.

[Marty Schlosser]

I guess I could state that if one is doing this for a living and therefore time is truly money, any tool that pays for itself over a reasonable amount of time is a worthwile investment, and not merely an expense. That's the logic behind investing in expensive tools. Although I'm no longer doing woodworking for a living but still follow that logic... which is, I guess illogical! But, hey, I prefer to spend as little time as possible sanding and if an expensive tool does the job faster and more efficiently, I'm all over it! Bring on the Festools!!

[Martin Wasner]

A sander is a sander is a sander.. it is a motor that spins.. nothing special. A $50 sander will get you to the same place a $600 sander will. The $600 sander is better if you're working in a place where you can't have any dust.


I don't think I'm taking this out of context or misinterpreting it, but this statement is completely false.

I don't care about dust collection. I care about results, and how quickly those results are reached. Not all sanders leave the same scratch behind, or do so in the same time frame. Rule out life span, purchase cost, operating cost, operator interface, operator fatigue, dust collection, and just dial it down to scratch. I will take any quality sander and it's price tag that operates as advertised over a lesser/cheaper sander just because of the results. Put those things back in, and it's a no brainer when your tools provide you with a livelihood.

[Andy Giddings]

Fair. That's what makes the market what it is I guess. If everyone wanted the same type of tool at the same price point, then there wouldn't be a market, just a ticket taker.

A sander is a sander is a sander.. it is a motor that spins.. nothing special. A $50 sander will get you to the same place a $600 sander will. The $600 sander is better if you're working in a place where you can't have any dust.

The domino is so much better than a biscuit joiner, because it actually does something the other tools don't. So it's worth it. Just like a toll highway, it costs more but saves you money in the long run. $600 sanders? not so much. $1000 circular saws with brass bushings? LOL.

Wish this comment about the sander was true. I remember the cheap PC sander I had - was like hanging on to a buzzing brick. After about 10mins, fingers start to go numb from the vibrations. I would prefer not to sand at all, but, as that's not realistic, I want to use a tool that is quiet, light and doesn't vibrate

[Roy Turbett]

What do you like about the Rotex ...? Does the Dual-Mode really make that much of a difference?

I have the Rotex 125 and find that it works much better than my belt sander for rapid stock removal in rotex mode and is more than adequate for most finishing work. Dust collection is exceptional with the Festool vacuum. I used it in rotex mode to strip an oak bathroom floor and flush trim the edges on a pantry I built this week. It also performs very well in ROS mode but is a bit heavy and not as comfortable to use as a palm sander. Today I used it in ROS mode at its slowest speed with a single sheet of 80 grit paper to remove 100 year old varnish and shellac from a pine door. It gently removed the finish without going all the way down to bare wood and didn't gum up the sandpaper by heating the finish. I was able to dissolve the remaining shellac with DNA and OOOO steel wool to achieve a consistent color that I'll be able to easily refurbish with some fresh shellac.

I was a skeptic about there being much difference between sanders but would buy the Rotex 125 again in a heartbeat. Well worth the money.

[Larry Edgerton]

Fair. That's what makes the market what it is I guess. If everyone wanted the same type of tool at the same price point, then there wouldn't be a market, just a ticket taker.

A sander is a sander is a sander.. it is a motor that spins.. nothing special. A $50 sander will get you to the same place a $600 sander will. The $600 sander is better if you're working in a place where you can't have any dust.

The domino is so much better than a biscuit joiner, because it actually does something the other tools don't. So it's worth it. Just like a toll highway, it costs more but saves you money in the long run. $600 sanders? not so much. $1000 circular saws with brass bushings? LOL.

I once though just like you, but then I discovered that I was an idiot.

[Jim Becker]

Wish this comment about the sander was true. I remember the cheap PC sander I had - was like hanging on to a buzzing brick. After about 10mins, fingers start to go numb from the vibrations. I would prefer not to sand at all, but, as that's not realistic, I want to use a tool that is quiet, light and doesn't vibrate
I concur. I had to get away from the typical sub-$100 sanders to deal with the effects of vibration. The superior dust collection was icing on the cake. I'm now at almost ten years of use for the 150/3 and have replaced the pad a few times as the only maintenance. The first four years, I went through two of the PC333 sanders, so in retrospect my investment in the better tool wasn't so expensive after all. And I'm not a heavy user, either.

[Stew Hagerty]

Well this thread sure took a turn.

Anyway... So, the Rotex in kind of interesting. I'm just not sure about the comments that it's heavy, and that it doesn't do a good job as a finish sander.

I use my RO sander from 40 grit up through 400. I've even used it for rubbing out up through 8000 grit. I'm a Hybrid Woodworker, so I also use handplanes a lot. Since I started using the planes, I rarely go to my belt sander anymore. Although there are some times when rapid, heavy stock removal would come in pretty handy. Hmmm...

[Jim Becker]

Stew, the Rotex is a nice and very capable machine. The older version like I have is a bit cumbersome for "regular" sanding use because it's not one-hand-friendly from a balance perspective. The current version may be better in that respect. About the only time I pull out the Rotex these days is if I'm going to do something "heavy duty" where the rotary action will be helpful or when I do my semi-annual workbench cleanup. Two hands on a large, stationary surface is comfortable for me. Otherwise, I prefer the 150/3 because of its ergonomics. If you have the ability to hold these tools prior to purchase, that might be a good idea. Woodcraft and other retailers sell them. Even our local Benjamin Moore store sells Festool sanders.

[Van Huskey]

A sander is a sander is a sander.. it is a motor that spins.. nothing special. A $50 sander will get you to the same place a $600 sander will. The $600 sander is better if you're working in a place where you can't have any dust.



A car is a car is a car... says a person that has never driven a Porsche GT3 RS and/or doesn't car about cars or driving.

To the OP, I have both the Deros (had a Ceros, no longer sold) and the ETS EC 150/3 and the Mirka is simply a better sander. I returned the ETS EC 150/5 because I like the Mirka better, I traded it for the 150/3 since I wanted a shorter stroke brushless sander and my dealer didn't have the Deros 2.5 in stock. The only issue with the Deros is it cost more than the Festool. I think the ergonomics are better (more like a pneumatic) and it has even less vibration. That said the Ceros is/was the best electric sander re ergonomics, if you have a chance to get one it would be my choice.

Edit RE the Rotex, it is a different beast, more a 2 handed stock remover than a comfortable ROS, I do not find them fun to use for finish sanding which is 90% of my hand sanding work.

[Van Huskey]

Not for the festool purchasers, might give you a heart attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezp-_DcUgg

I think everyone on the internet knows of AvE.

The key is there of tens of thousands of the TS 55 plunge saws being used day in and day out by tradesmen and the the number are failures reported are very low and certainly nothing to indicate a pattern problem. If you want to have a go at Festool start with the Kapex at least then it will appear you did a little homework.

[roger wiegand]

I've had the Deros for about six months now, and I'm not in love with it. The paddle switch is annoying, there's no lock so you have to keep it depressed all the time, and if you forget to turn the sander off it triggers inadvertently while changing disks, etc. There is something not right with the hook/loop sanding pad on mine, it won't hold on to my Klingspor disks for more than a few minutes before shooting the disk across the room, with the Abranet disks the attachment still fails long before the abrasive side of the disk is worn out. (this has been true with several different new attachment pads) I've been messing with different vacuum hoses, and now have a smaller diameter very flexible Bosch hose that works OK. With the hose that came with the Deros the ergonomics are terrible, the sander is so light that the hose completely dominates the way it handles. It's a constant battle to keep the sander flat to the surface without exerting too much pressure, as the hose completely overbalances it. When it works there's nothing magical about it, it sands and produces a nice finish-- but so did the sander it replaced that cost less than half as much.

[Steven Hosler]

I'm going to pile on with several of the others... I have both the Festool 150/3 and the Rotex 150. The 150/3 is one of the most used tools in my shop. It is comfortable, you can use it for extended periods (low vibration), and the dust collection is fantastic. It also does a great job giving a smooth surface. I use the Rotex for heavy stock removal, stripping, and initial sanding. It is much more a two-handed sander. If I were recommending a new sander to someone, it would be the 150/3 (or 125/3 if you prefer 5")

[Ben Rivel]

I'm going to pile on with several of the others... I have both the Festool 150/3 and the Rotex 150. The 150/3 is one of the most used tools in my shop. It is comfortable, you can use it for extended periods (low vibration), and the dust collection is fantastic. It also does a great job giving a smooth surface. I use the Rotex for heavy stock removal, stripping, and initial sanding. It is much more a two-handed sander. If I were recommending a new sander to someone, it would be the 150/3 (or 125/3 if you prefer 5")Also note to that, the ETS EC 125/3 can use the 150 pads, so you get the best of both worlds. However the ETS EC 150/3 or /5 can not use the 125 pads. So you are stuck with 6".

[Stew Hagerty]

I'm going to pile on with several of the others... I have both the Festool 150/3 and the Rotex 150. The 150/3 is one of the most used tools in my shop. It is comfortable, you can use it for extended periods (low vibration), and the dust collection is fantastic. It also does a great job giving a smooth surface. I use the Rotex for heavy stock removal, stripping, and initial sanding. It is much more a two-handed sander. If I were recommending a new sander to someone, it would be the 150/3 (or 125/3 if you prefer 5")


Also note to that, the ETS EC 125/3 can use the 150 pads, so you get the best of both worlds. However the ETS EC 150/3 or /5 can not use the 125 pads. So you are stuck with 6".

OK, here's my thing...

I don't typically do larger projects. The largest "flat surface" projects I have done is a Hall Table. That said, I may well be making an entertainment center within the next year or two, some kind of a hutch, and possible a new dining room table.

I also have a whole bunch of 5" Norton 3X discs on hand that I bought on sale. Not that I am basing my purchase solely on having those discs. If the 6" is more advantages, I would choose it. However, being able to use the 6" pad on the 125/3 makes it much more tempting.

Am I making sense?

[Sam Murdoch]

You can certainly do all your finishing with the 5" sander. The kind of use you are describing doesn't warrant the machine that will sand the most area in the shortest amount of time. I can't speak to using the 125/3 so I have discussed the merits of the Festool (mine, a ETS 150/3) over the big box store sander options. I don't know the $$s comparison of the two Festool options. Would encourage you to try the 125/3 - Festool has a 30 day trial period - and if it everything you need call it good! If not - try the ETS 150/3.

[Stew Hagerty]

Festool has a 30 day trial period - and if it everything you need call it good! If not - try the ETS 150/3.

I did not know that Sam. That helps a lot. Thanks

[Jim Becker]

Relative to abrasives, please remember that the hole pattern is important for dust collection and that centrally located hole on Festool (or Festool compatible) abrasives is one of the keys to that. So if you have a "stash" of discs that were designed for another sander, they will work for sanding, but might not provide the best dust extraction performance. You may be able to modify them with a punch, however.

[Van Huskey]

There is something not right with the hook/loop sanding pad on mine, it won't hold on to my Klingspor disks for more than a few minutes before shooting the disk across the room, with the Abranet disks the attachment still fails long before the abrasive side of the disk is worn out. (this has been true with several different new attachment pads) I've been messing with different vacuum hoses,


Have you been using pad protectors? If you use Abranet you need them or you will kill the pad very quickly.

The best hose is a 27mm Festool hose. It also helps if it is supported by a boom and with the cord and hose connected together to make for easy control of them. All the light weight brushless sanders need thought given to the hose. The paddle really is love it or hate it, people coming from air sanders tend to love it, when you get good with it you can feather the speed when working out to edges and into corners. BTW blue tape works quite well for the rare times I want it on all the time.

[roger wiegand]

Have you been using pad protectors? If you use Abranet you need them or you will kill the pad very quickly.

Yes, I have been using the pad protectors. Their attachment to the sander is fine, it's the attachment between the sanding disk and the pad protector that fails. I've also tried using it without the pad protectors and have the same issue.

[Stew Hagerty]

Relative to abrasives, please remember that the hole pattern is important for dust collection and that centrally located hole on Festool (or Festool compatible) abrasives is one of the keys to that. So if you have a "stash" of discs that were designed for another sander, they will work for sanding, but might not provide the best dust extraction performance. You may be able to modify them with a punch, however.

Good to know Jim. They do not have a center hole. I guess I'll be punching.

[Jim Becker]

That center hole is the "secret sauce".... ;)

[Larry Edgerton]

One thing to be aware of when switching to the Abranet is that with the pad adapter there is no such thing as a hard disk. You have to very careful not to round out your edges. I will be using the Festool hard pad and conventional paper up until the second coat for this reason. I just finished the first set of cabinet doors with Abranet and noticed that they are quite rounded. Not a big deal on this style doorshaker with a rounded edge, but for other things it could be.

Jim, I was just reading up on Deros, and it said they were adding a center hole. so the recipe for the secret sauce is out......

[Martin Wasner]

Velcro pads always have give to them, doesn't matter whose abrasive you use. I use cloth backed psa discs almost solely because of that. I'm also not using vacuum for dust collection

[Stew Hagerty]

Well I pulled the trigger and ordered the 125/3. I'm anxious now to give it a spin. I will update with my first impression.

[Larry Edgerton]

Well I pulled the trigger and ordered the 125/3. I'm anxious now to give it a spin. I will update with my first impression.

I think you will be happy. I have a 125/3, and more than how it works I like the way it picks up dust. I got a bigger job with Makore as the primary wood and the stuff ruins me. With my dynabrades even with a mask I was red eyes and sneezing in 20 minutes. So I broke down and bought the EQ and the little Festool suitcase vac which I mounted on the ceiling, and I could sand that junk all day long with no mask. I have now gotten used to the hose. Like I said before, an idiot I was.......

Martin needs a vacuum........

[Sam Murdoch]

I think you will be happy. I have a 125/3, and more than how it works I like the way it picks up dust. I got a bigger job with Makore as the primary wood and the stuff ruins me. With my dynabrades even with a mask I was red eyes and sneezing in 20 minutes. So I broke down and bought the EQ and the little Festool suitcase vac which I mounted on the ceiling, and I could sand that junk all day long with no mask. I have now gotten used to the hose. Like I said before, an idiot I was.......

Martin needs a vacuum........

Well one would think so.:) Martin your life could change with good vac. Do you not use it because you think it compromises the quality of a sanding? Random orbits over collecting dust isn't better is it? And then there is the air quality thing. :confused: Just wondering...

Enjoy your new Festool Stew !

[Martin Wasner]

Well one would think so.:) Martin your life could change with good vac. Do you not use it because you think it compromises the quality of a sanding? Random orbits over collecting dust isn't better is it? And then there is the air quality thing. :confused: Just wondering...

Enjoy your new Festool Stew !

I don't like the hose. I don't really think there's much to be gained in sanding quality either, dust is ejected from the edge of the pad anyways, though as pointed out already, that fails at the center since there's no speed there.

Air quality isn't a problem. I do the bulk of my sanding on an awesome down draft table.

[David Kumm]

Larry, I have a hose with an integral air line for my dynabrades and 3M sanders. Probably not as light as the Festool hose but the sanders are so light it doesn't matter. Dave

[Dave Sabo]

Also note to that, the ETS EC 125/3 can use the 150 pads, so you get the best of both worlds. However the ETS EC 150/3 or /5 can not use the 125 pads. So you are stuck with 6".


I think you've got it backwards.

The 150 EC sanders can be fitted with a 125mm pad, but not the other way around.

[Ben Rivel]

I think you've got it backwards.

The 150 EC sanders can be fitted with a 125mm pad, but not the other way around.Nope that is not correct. Check out this thread: LINK (http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/ets-ec-125150/) It will explain why.

[Dave Sabo]

Nope that is not correct. Check out this thread: LINK (http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/ets-ec-125150/) It will explain why.

Mea Culpa

It is a thoroughly confusing issue as well as baffling why festool would go to such lengths to handcuff the sander.
Actually it's not if you subscribe to the premise that they are just out to bilk their customers.

[Mike Dowell]

500 bones is insane for a tool of its kind but you all make me want to go out and buy one. Insanely overpriced. I could see if it was $300. Geez the peer pressure.

Had to chime in when I read this. I use a Mirka Ceros, and it was $550, and worth every single cent. On the topic of "expensive" tools, I'd like to offer a fresh perspective. A perspective I got from Sawmill Creek, but I can't remember the name of the wise person whom said it best. You know, we live in a Ryobi tool world these days. A throw away economy. If you look in Home Depot at sanders, you'll be hard pressed to find one over $150. That's by design, and it's because they know that most people figure a sander - sands wood. So, why buy a $500 sander when you can get one for $50? I can tell you why. Because as modern Americans, as Walmart shoppers, we've become accustomed to "cheap" prices. Problem is, in that transition, we've forgotten what "quality" really means, because there's basically no quality options available to us any more, and that's because of our purchasing decisions. In a way, we've taught the market how to treat us. The reason there aren't $500 sanders in Home Depot, is the reason I mentioned earlier - because no one would buy them!

The fact is, we've become completely divorced from quality products, and by extension, what quality actually costs in dollars. The OP asked what a good RO was, and received an overwhelming response, almost all of which recommended an "expensive" tool. There's a reason for that, and it's the same reason I paid $500+ for my RO. That reason, is because that's what a quality tool actually costs, and I was crazy enough trust that, and I could never go back to a $100 sander now. As a wise man once told me, "the most expensive tool, is that which needs to be replaced at some point".

And by the way, for what it's worth - a 6" pad has 30% more surface area than a 5" pad. I suck at math, but math really comes through on things like this.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I find Rolex to be to heavy, but it does keep good time.:D

I wear an Omega that keeps good time too.
Doc

[Van Huskey]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2656221#post2656221)
I find Rolex to be to heavy, but it does keep good time.:D


I wear an Omega that keeps good time too.
Doc

That is oddly analogous to this thread. Possibly my greatest hobby passion is mechanical watches and for the vast majority of people a Rolex is the pinnacle of watch making, which honestly is far from the truth. Rolex and Omega are mid-level watches and the majority of both lines are tool watches. Much like sanders (tools) there are usually many more options out there than most of us are familiar with. Lange, Patek, AP and Vacheron for example make watches MUCH more expensive and built much better than a Rolex. My point is something out there is usually better and usually comes with a price premium but we all live within some budget and just like a $30K or $100K watch at some point the price tag becomes unfathomable to all of us and it may be just the price tag vs our budget and it may be we simply aren't that devoted to the particular hobby. A $500 or $600 ROS may make a pro money and it may make the task of sanding a little more pleasurable for a hobbyist so for some it makes perfect sense and for others it seems insane but every hobby has this same issue.


BTW before someone chimes in I know mechnical watches are an anachronism and a $10 Walmart quartz watch keeps better time than even the finest mechanical movements.


Edit: before anyone thinks I am poo pooing Rolex and Omega I am not, I love both brands and together they make up roughly 40% of my collection.

[Jim Becker]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2656221#post2656221)
I find Rolex to be to heavy, but it does keep good time.

I have a Rolex that was my grandfather's. It looks pretty, but is the worst time-keeping watch I've ever owned, even after repeated (and expensive) cleanings/servicing by the factory service center. So it gathers dust... :)

That said, I still subscribe to and follow something I've said often..."The most expensive tools are the ones you have to replace early and often" and invest in quality. Much less expensive in the long run and better results.

[John K Jordan]

"The most expensive tools are the ones you have to replace early and often" and invest in quality. Much less expensive in the long run and better results.

That is what my friend in Italy said, more or less, the best I could understand due to the language differences. He was commenting on the tools he has for his mobile carpentry/remodeling business while standing between two floor-to-ceiling racks full of systainers - "Festool, only Festool. Very good quality, economy!"

JKJ

[Edwin Santos]

That said, I still subscribe to and follow something I've said often..."The most expensive tools are the ones you have to replace early and often" and invest in quality. Much less expensive in the long run and better results.

I do not disagree with your philosphy per se. The minor caveat would be that it's a personal decision. There a top to every bell curve and a personal point of diminishing returns where the "high quality" tool becomes disproportionate to your needs. My solution is to splurge when I can on the higher dollar, higher quality tools for those tools that I use frequently. For the infrequent jobs, I tend to feel the pedestrian, Chevy quality tools fill the bill quite well. However if another guy chooses to splurge on the very best designer tool in every category, its a personal decision, not my place to judge. Also, the mere definition of quality is an elusive one, means different things to different people. I say buy whatever tools make you happy and have a good time using them. Using a poor or substandard tool can be a real frustration.

Some tools better quality tools hold their value so well that they can be looked at as essentially being free. I bought a Powermatic 54A long bed 6" jointer in maybe 2004 for $750 off Amazon.com, free shipping. Sold it last year for $750 off Craigslist. Ignoring an inflation argument, that tool basically cost me nothing, or at least very little and I enjoyed use of it for over a decade. Maybe it was a fluke. Really surprised me.