industrial machines info

[Rick Moyer]

OK, this is a really open-ended general discussion as I don't have a lot of parameters to give you. I'm asking more for a friend. He's doing some work with slabs (purchased from a mill) and needs better tooling than what he now has. Most of his interest is currently in producing and finishing tables, benches, etc. He's mostly using hand tools and small hobbyist power tools and is looking into getting some industrial equipment to reduce all the labor. Three phase power is already available. We'll consider this a potential start-up business and biggest concerns right now are flattening (jointer) and to some extent planning, ripping, etc.

I guess I'm really just seeking some expertise on the type of equipment he may be considering, what to factor in purchasing used equipment, certain manufacturers to either stay away from or seek out and why, etc.

ANY sort of informative comments are welcome.

To help you with responses I'll list some specific concerns:
1. Best ways to rip a slab (assuming track saws do not have enough depth) keeping in mind the size and weight issues
2. Best ways to flatten a slab too wide for a jointer
3. Recommendations on industrial machines as they relate to jointing, planning, and sanding processes in regard to slab surfacing
A. If only starting with one pc., would it be a wide planer?
B. Do they make big combo machines (j/p) like the smaller ones I'm familiar with? If so, would these be a reasonable option?
4. Would like your general thoughts and experiences about various machines and manufacturers !

Sorry this is so general. Whatever you can offer is welcomed. Thanks.

[Jesse Busenitz]

I think some folks use CNC to flatten big slabs, but that can be big money too. For ripping a straight edge you can get bigger skill saws and then make your own track/straight edge, and then clean it up with the jointer. Or if that isn't big enough there's the chainsaw. When you mess with bigger slabs it's nice to move the tool and not the wood, unless you're Hercules or can rig up some sort of carriage.

[Jamie Buxton]

For flattening a slab, you might consider a CNC router. They're standard products, so you get lots of choices. You also can resell the machine if your business changes direction.

For ripping a thick slab, use a large-diameter circular saw and a clamped-on straightedge. The clamped-on straightedge might not be quite as convenient as a fancy aluminum track, but the price is right, and it does work. For a large-diameter circular saw, here's a page with several examples, up to 17" diameter blades -- https://www.timberwolftools.com/tools/kind/beamsaws.html

[Al Launier]

Don't know the sizes W x T x L of the slabs, but if not too large, band saw for ripping & if the slabs are less than 12" & not too long, then a planer sled could be used. Shim the slab to optimize/minimize material removal. Could also build a router platform & rout the slabs flat, tedious but doable. Several threads available on these sleds.

[Kevin Jenness]

Here's a Woodweb thread with some different perspectives: http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_files/business/791686.html

[Jeff Heath]

I have been doing this kind of work in my shop for a living for a long while. I have my own sawmill, and cut a lot of slabs, because that's what my customer base wants over and over and over.....

My shop is all old American industrial machinery that I've restored myself (OWWM's). There are a lot of great machines out there available. Is your friend opened to doing some work on restoring a machine, or is he looking for plug and play?

For larger slabs, even my 30" Whitney planer isn't going to handle the really wide stuff. If he has the money, he can go to an old school 3 or 4 head drum sander, like Yates or Berlin, or he can go to a wide belt sander. They make them wide enough to handle table slabs in one pass. A 43"er will do nicely, and I've even seen 60" widebelts from time to time.

My previous jointer was a 24" Yates American. My current jointer is a 16" Yates American. I restored both myself. They, and other makes, are great jointers, but passing 300 lb. large, heavy slabs over them is no easy chore.

For straight ripping, a big 30" or 36" bandsaw is hard to beat. You can build infeed and outfeed tables (if you have the space) to deal with the weight of these larger slabs. You can also take the tool to the wood, and purchase a big 16" circular saw designed for timber framing. Easily handles getting through a 3 1/2" slab of wood. Obviously heavy, and you can make your own straight edge guide out of plywood.

Table saws: plenty of great ones with lots of power. I have a Whitney No. 77, which I personally think is the best table saw ever built in the world. You can get into big table saws like Greenlee 495's with sliding tables (my former saw), Oliver 270's or 88's (big saw with 18" blade capacity.) Northfield No. 4 is also a big-boy saw with a lot of ripping capacity. Machines like this rip through 12/4 stock of the hardwood species of your choosing without batting an eyelash, as long as you have a sharp blade.

For flattening work, if the slab is wider than the jointer, and you don't want to spend the money on CNC equipment (I don't) you can build your own table with a heavy duty router and sled that will allow you to flatten one side, flip it over, and thickness the other side parallel. Lots of chips and dust, but it is a woodshop, after all. Plenty of dust collection options to help out with that mess. I have an open port I made that I lay right next to where I'm working. Does pretty good.

More specific questions will yield more specific answers. I have a YouTube channel on my shop if your friend is interested. Let me know.

[David Kumm]

Jeff is the guy for large old machines ( I disagree on the table saw, Whitney 77 is second best but a close call ) so take a look at his stuff. I'd be interested in Jeff's take on the old double sided planers. Big, long and heavy but pretty cheap on the used market. Porter made one and i suspect a bunch of others. Not on my radar screen but a machine to handle slabs. Dave

[Dave Cav]

Since you're already set up with three phase power, and you want to do this professionally, the best advice I can give you is what Jeff already said. Get a big wide belt sander (and a dust collector to match) and then get ready to start climbing a long, steep learning curve.

I'm not sure I would recommend looking for one of the massive Old Arn planers or double surfacers, or even one of the big old jointers. Your friend will have enough challenges getting this off the ground without having to restore a 75 year old machine.

[Darcy Warner]

SLR for ripping, I don't even rip anything anymore with my Whitney or greenlee.
I have a 30" jointer and 30" planer, they are out there, just not cheap.

[Rick Moyer]

Thanks for all the great replies, guys. Most slabs I've seen that he has are less than 36", and I know he has a bunch that are, or will be processed as, less than 20". He's really just getting his feet wet with this kind of stuff, so the money isn't there yet for really expensive equipment. Sounds like for flattening either:
1. CNC
2. router sled
3. 16" jointer for what it can handle, router sled for bigger

I suspect a bigger circular saw would be in order for now for ripping. Even a smaller slab is a bear to rip on MY table saw, and he has a smaller TS than I do. Any thoughts on what to look for in a large circular saw? make/model etc.?

Probably given what he's thinking about doing, the first large pc of equipment maybe should be a wide belt sander OR a large planer? The planer could do most of his slabs, but the wide belt could do bigger, albeit slower. Something to consider.

Jeff, I'll search YouTube for your channel. If I don't find it I'll PM ya. Thanks.

[Darcy Warner]

A wide belt may work, but it would need to be something with either an abrasive head or something with a lot of
HP one one contact drum (50hp) to even make a slight dent in cleaning up one. Not a cheap machine.

Large jointer, large planer, 16" beam saw at a minimum. SLR will rip 4 1/2" without hesitation.

[Martin Wasner]

A wide belt may work, but it would need to be something with either an abrasive head or something with a lot of
HP one one contact drum (50hp) to even make a slight dent in cleaning up one. Not a cheap machine.

Large jointer, large planer, 16" beam saw at a minimum. SLR will rip 4 1/2" without hesitation.


I recently had one of my builders ask me to run a live edge slab through my widebelt to get it smoothed out. I didn't do anything to flatten it, I just tossed it through. With a 60g in the first head, and an 80g in the second head you can hog a 1/16" at a time pretty easily with my sander and those belts if they're in reasonably good shape and you aren't doing a full width pass in the average hardness material. You could probably do more with courser grits. It's only 25hp on the first head and 20hp on the second head. I don't run the platen with course belts, there's no reason.

[Kevin Jenness]

A major consideration when dealing with large slabs is material handling - moving pieces into the shop, from machine to machine, multiple passes through a wide belt sander, etc. As a couple of contributors to the Woodweb thread I posted pointed out, a cnc router can flatten and thickness a slab too large for all but the largest jointers and planers as well as mill a straight square edge with minimal handling and floor space. I am not experienced with aggregate heads (right angle drives) for routers, but it may be that a properly equipped machine can get close to a finish sanded surface as well.

Whatever methods are chosen your friend is looking at a sizable investment if he wants to be efficient.

[Jesse Busenitz]

SLR for ripping, I don't even rip anything anymore with my Whitney or greenlee.
I have a 30" jointer and 30" planer, they are out there, just not cheap.

Pics.... We need some pics to back up this claim.:rolleyes: