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Rich Riddle
02-04-2017, 6:14 AM
I purchased a fuel storage tank for diesel gas that looks a lot like these:

353164 353165

The pumps pictured on the tanks appear to be electrical and look similar to this:

353166
Growing up in Kansas, many farmers had hand crank models similar to this style.

353167

1. Is there any great advantage of the electrical style pump or hand crank pump over the other?
2. How does one arrange to get diesel fuel delivered? Filling it by hand five gallons at a time doesn't sound enjoyable or practical.
3. Diesel fuel options include dyed, non-dyed, on-road, off-road, ULS ppm15, ULS ppm15#1, B20 & B50. Which one for tractors and skid steers?
4. The tank on the farm is 28" round by about 62" long. Is that a 150 gallon tank?
5. The tank is missing the plugs on the top side of both ends. One will likely get filled with the pump Where does one find plugs for a tank?
6. The neighbor has a "gauge" on his oil tank for his furnace. Should I purchase one of those instead of a plug?
7. Many farmers place diesel fuel storage tanks next to barns/buildings. Is that acceptable?

The details of starting up a hobby farm never seem to stop. Thanks for your help.

Farmer Rich, soon to be Farmer Poor

Howard Garner
02-04-2017, 6:52 AM
2. How does one arrange to get diesel fuel delivered? Filling it by hand five gallons at a time doesn't sound enjoyable or practical.
Call your local fuel oil distributor, he should be able to deliver diesel as well, or talk to other farmers as to their source.

3. Diesel fuel options include dyed, non-dyed, on-road, off-road, ULS ppm15, ULS ppm15#1, B20 & B50. Which one for tractors and skid steers?
Dye = off road and that is what you want. Almost all diesel today is ULS. #2 is normal for every diesel. For winter use add Power Serve to you skid steer tank, reduces the chance of gelling.
If diesel is ordered in the fall, ask if it is winterized or not. Bio is you choice. But check your owners manual. Modern VW diesels are restricted to less then 10% bio

not a farmer but grew up on one and now drive a VW diesel car.
Howard Garner

Jerome Stanek
02-04-2017, 7:10 AM
You will need a dike around the tanks that will have to be inspected and approved. The local co op may sell it. The electric pump is faster and when you need to pump 30 to 50 gallons your arm gets tired. If you use it for just your equipment then you can use off road that you don't pay road tax on. If you don't use a lot the diesel will get slimy and plug up your injectors. I would for go the trouble

John K Jordan
02-04-2017, 7:48 AM
I have both types of pumps for diesel. I recently was given a 100 gallon tank with an electric pump but have not yet put it in use. It will sit next to my shop. I would not want a gadoline tank near a building.

For years I've used a 55gallon drum with a hand pump for diesel. It is out of the rain under a shed roof. If out in the rain it is difficult to keep water out since water that accumulates on the top can be sucked in around the plug threads as the tank cools.

I think a hand pump is fine for farm use - I have three off-road things that run on diesei and have no problem with the effort of pumping by hand. I might even put a hand pump in my larger tank instead of using the electric. An electric pump is expensive and needs power. Unless you run the equipment a lot the 55 gal tank with a hand pump should be fine. Sure beats lifting 5-gal cans.

Note that regulations may require a building a catch basin below a stationary fuel tank in case of a leak. I suspect big commercial farm operations pay attention to such regulations.

I put my 55 gal drum in the truck and get diesel at any of four fuel depots in the area. It is cheaper that way since you don't have to pay for delivery charges. I use a strap to lift the full drum off the truck with the FEL on the tractor. When I get the 100 gal tank set up I will make two trips or get a second 55 gal drum. Drive up close to the larger tank and pump the fuel into the larger tank with the hand pump. I know several farmers that do this.

Note that most fuel depots will not let you fill plastic 5-gal cans. Since they are the only places to get the dyed fuel with no road tax added, the fuel itself is cheaper that way too. Do not use the cheaper dyed fuel in your on-road diesel truck.

Call around for prices. One of farmers co-ops here will deliver for free if you buy enough but their price per gallon is more.

You can calculate the number of gallons with the volume of a cylinder equation, pi * r * r * h which does't include the volume in the closed ends but will be close.

Finding plugs: Northern Tool, fuel depots, farm stores, those guys that sell used drums, my junk box.

Gauge: might be nice for a big tank. A stick would work too. I gauge my 55 gal drum by rocking it.

JKJ

Rick Moyer
02-04-2017, 9:03 AM
Most of your questions have been answered. I will comment that if you have it filled from a local fuel oil distributor, the tank will need a vent rather than a plug. Filling at volume/speed will require venting the air out as fast as filling with fuel. If you're pouring it in by hand it will vent out the fill hole, but that seems laborious to me. I would contact several local distributors and ask about pricing, delivery, etc. to see what you want to do. Really depends upon your usage, tank size, and how much you want to deal with. Generally you'll probably pay more per gallon to have it delivered, but what's that worth to you is your decision. I would say the dimensions you gave are a 150 gal tank. Many oil companies will likely have a minimum delivery amount, which is likely 150 gal, without paying additional fee. I wouldn't think a gauge is necessary if you're willing to put a stick down the hole occasionally, or if you can get by with an empty tank for a few days if you run yourself out. Diesel fuel is diesel fuel, except for gov't regulations and taxes. What I mean is it will all burn pretty much the same. You can use the less expensive (no road tax) off-road dyed diesel, so long as you don't put it in vehicles run on roads/highways. It's all about the road taxes. I wouldn't be concerned about where I put the tank, so long as there aren't regulations. Diesel fuel is oil and not explosive like gasoline (vapors). Try not to spill it on anything, it makes a mess and stinks for a long time. It will also kill grass pretty well. Hope this helps.

Rich Riddle
02-04-2017, 11:02 AM
Thanks for all the replies. The man who delivers fuel oil for my neighbor's oil furnace might be a good place to start. He's a very kind gentleman and I don't mind paying him a premium for delivery. He stops by the 87 year-old neighbor's house weekly to make sure the neighbor's doing well and his oil tank isn't low. He even stops there in summer just to chat with the lonely old neighbor. If the neighbor's tank is low and the neighbor isn't home, he simply fills the neighbor's tank and leaves a bill at the door. He never charges the old guy for delivery. There aren't many folks around like him.

Jim Becker
02-04-2017, 11:31 AM
I agree to talk with the dude who delivers fuel oil to your neighbor as it's the same thing you need to buy and it might even work out that your consumption fits within his already established delivery schedule. He can top you off at the same time he's delivering next door. I've occasionally considered getting a small tank myself (neighbor heats with oil, so I'd probably ask the same company) but in the end, my consumption isn't enough to justify it.

That said, be absolutely sure you set up the tank so it's in compliance with regulations...as much as jurisdictions are really sticky with plumbing, etc., they can go ape-excrement-batty over fuel oil storage that's not setup to code. That can be very expensive...

Tom Stenzel
02-04-2017, 11:54 AM
Howdy Farmer Rich,

The info that the tank is 150 gallons is correct. There's 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot If the dimensions you gave are right your tank calculates to 165 gallons.

Years ago my Father was a one man excavating company. The frontlader/ backhoe was diesel. We found the fuel didn't age well. Don't buy more than you can use in a reasonable amount of time.

-Tom

Rick Moyer
02-04-2017, 12:02 PM
Forgot to mention the possible gelling of the fuel at low temps. Simply a matter of using an additive to combat that in the dead of winter. Alternatively you, or the oil company, could just cut the fuel with about 30% kerosene too. Back when I delivered the stuff we would put this "mix" in the outside tanks we delivered to in the winter. It greatly reduced call-outs for gelled lines.

Nicholas Lawrence
02-04-2017, 12:21 PM
That said, be absolutely sure you set up the tank so it's in compliance with regulations...as much as jurisdictions are really sticky with plumbing, etc., they can go ape-excrement-batty over fuel oil storage that's not setup to code. That can be very expensive...

Once it leaks, it is very hard to clean up. If it gets into the water table and migrates, you could cause problems for neighbors for a long distance and many years to come.

Jim Andrew
02-04-2017, 1:02 PM
Do you have a local coop where you live? They supply just about everything a farmer needs. I had an electric pump, but it went bad, and it was about 550 to replace it, so I got a hand pump at Orshelyn supply. Need the exercise anyway.

Dave Cav
02-04-2017, 2:00 PM
My local Co-op has two dyed diesel pumps out back away from the regular fuel pumps, and they will let customers fill up portable containers, but they keep a close eye on the closed circuit camera to make sure it's not going into a vehicle fuel tank. They also sell dyed kerosene, but I'm not sure what anyone uses that for.

I mainly buy zero ethanol gas from them for my portable equipment because it stores so much better than regular pump gas.

Rich Riddle
02-04-2017, 2:29 PM
Thanks for all the information folks. It does get a tad chilly down here, but nothing like where Rod Sheridan lives. I imagine the delivery man would deliver about 50 gallons or so when he tops off the neighbor's oil in the winter. Conversely, I could get a 55 gallon drum and mount it to a skid. Put the drum on a trailer and when it runs low go up to the local gas station and fill it.

Rich Riddle
02-04-2017, 6:31 PM
Here are the pictures of the actual tank:

353214 353215 353217 353218
Do you know what the fitting in the third photograph is? There is a small nozzle in the fourth photograph on the bottom as well. I also hear something clinking around inside when moving the tank. Any information you might offer will be appreciated.

John K Jordan
02-04-2017, 7:56 PM
Here are the pictures of the actual tank:

353214 353215 353217 353218
Do you know what the fitting in the fourth photograph is? There is a small nozzle in the fifth photograph on the bottom as well. I also hear something clinking around inside when moving the tank. Any information you might offer will be appreciated.

There are only 4 photographs. The fitting in the third photo looks a bit like part of one that is on my tank. I have two openings in the top side, one holds the fuel pump and the other has a flip-up lid/cover. Maybe a pressure vent? I'd have to look, can't remember but it might be spring loaded.

JKJ

Jerome Stanek
02-05-2017, 8:22 AM
It is a pressure vent and fill opening that is broken should have a cover on it and you can lock it so no one can steal gas. Been a long time since we had one.

Jim Andrew
02-05-2017, 9:30 AM
That 3rd pic is where the tank is filled. It is also a vent. Part of the fitting is missing, the part that closes over the hole. I would want to clean the tank before filling it.

Lon Crosby
02-06-2017, 5:50 PM
Jerome is correct. The missing cover and skirt keeps water and snow from entering the tank. The valve in fig 4 is a drain valve. Tanks are open to the atmosphere so water can condense in the tank. It settles to the bottom because of density. Also a place for sediment (rust flakes) to settle. Needs to be drained periodically, just like an air compressor. Unless you are using a lot of diesel, easier to go buy 20 gallons at the cheapest local truck stop and claim you federal and state tax rebate once a year. If you run old engines, fuel quality is much less of a concern than if you are running modern engines. Read you tractor manual for fuel spec requirements. Hauling a drum of diesel in the back of a pick-up is not legal but you can still haul 5 gallon containers. Best bet is a 100 gallon diesel tank designed and certified for OTR transport in the back of a pickup with a 12 volt electric pump. No fuel quality worries, no delivery charges and typically lowest cost. Around here, that setup meets the needs of hobby farmers running 1000 acres of row crop or more.

Ronald Blue
02-09-2017, 12:08 AM
Get a tank like this. It is DOT approved and is a safe substitute to using a barrel. I am sure there is a TSC or a similar store in the area. You can always use it as your storage tank or just your transfer tank. An electric pump is nice but expensive for no more than you will use it. Here is a link to check out.

tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/delta-steel-transfer-tank-50-gal

Rich Riddle
02-09-2017, 5:13 AM
Thank you for all the replies. I decided to stay with this tank and have a local supplier deliver the fuel. The company driver who delivers home heating oil to the neighbor and they will deliver off-road diesel without a delivery charge at the same time they fill the neighbor's home heating oil tank. We just need to coordinate filling both tanks. Amazon sold the cast iron 2" fill cap that was broken in the picture and it's now on the tank. Northern Tool is supposed to ship the rotary hand-wind hand pump. The local supplier provided a source for a Goldenrod water-block filter to deal with water in the tank.

There were a few items floating around inside the tank. Someone had used a dip stick and dropped it inside. Apparently the pick-up pipe of the old fuel pump separated from pump upon removal and the previous owner just left it floating inside. Both proved entertaining to remove. So the remaining question is how do you folks clean out the inside?

Michael Dye
02-09-2017, 6:56 AM
Rich, take a look at how much fuel you plan on using. You will find that burning through 150 gallons of diesel, during certain times, might take some time. That stuff does go bad. Also, if you install that tank, you will have to have a containment that will contain the entire contents of the tank, in the event of a spill. The annual inspections and the eyesore of the tank can be trying. I installed a tank about twice the size of yours to supply jet fuel for our company helicopter and hated it. Eventually, we went back to a truck mounted tank and removed the ground tank. No inspections and never had to worry about the fuel going bad. Plus, I got myself a pretty nice crew cab pickup to drive.

Rich Riddle
02-09-2017, 8:20 AM
Michael,

The local area had nice weather this week and the containment system was built. In the area where the tank's placed the tractor shed hides one side and bushes hide the other sides, so no one will ever see it. Part of the consideration on tank placement involved visual backdrop and another consideration centered on thefts in the country; out of sight, out of mind. A walkway exists next to the shed but is hidden by foliage. Some might consider the tractor shed an eyesore, but we're located in the country. Beautifying the shed might draw attention to it. The nearest fire department waives the inspection fee for small farms in our area, so that's fortunate. We also provide an annual donation to the fire department, but of course the donations wasn't based upon the fire department performing the inspection because we just purchased the tank.

On another note, we would love to find a method to hide the LP tank to the farm house and are considering the option of purchasing an underground tank exclusively for that purpose.

John A langley
02-09-2017, 9:07 AM
underground LP tank is nice , Fence is cheaper

John K Jordan
02-09-2017, 7:27 PM
I finally got around to taking a photo of the cap and fitting on my old tank:

353578

It is not spring loaded and doesn't seal tightly so I will also function as a pressure vent.

JKJ

Todd Mason-Darnell
02-10-2017, 9:46 AM
Rich,

I know is for the new skid steer--I am still jealous.

Make sure to get an in line filter for your pump for particles and moisture. No telling how much crap is in that tank. With it being hauled around and having loose parts banging around, there is bound to have been some spalling. Also, you will get condensation in that tank with temp changes and the last thing you want is moisture in your diesel.

Also, as others have mentioned, I would recommend a secondary containment basin under tank for spills.

Unless you plan on burning through all of that fuel in a hurry, I would recommend that make sure to add a diesel additive for to prevent algae and gelling.

Rollie Meyers
02-11-2017, 10:49 PM
Just do not EVER be caught with off road diesel in a vehicle driven on the highways, the fines are huge.

Kev Williams
02-12-2017, 12:32 AM
Concur on the 165 gallons.

How I was taught to do this:

divide the 28" diameter by 2,
= 14"
square the result: 14x14,
= 196

196 x the 62" length,
=12,152

12.152 x 3.1416 / pi,
=38176.72 cubic inches--

There's 231 cubic inches to a gallon, so
38176.72, / 231,
=165.267 gallons...

Didn't have time to read everything else, just want to add from experience--
We have a 125 gallon 'toy tank' in our houseboat with a 12v pump very similar to the one in your pics. The thing pumps 6-7 gallons a minute. That's not a lot of minutes of using a deep cycle battery, one charge should empty that tank no problem.

Crank? Nah... :)

Rich Riddle
02-12-2017, 4:30 AM
Kev,

You're far more patient and intelligent when it comes to formulating math. Thanks for the exact sizing for the tank to you and the others. Rollie, I don't own any vehicles that take diesel fuel, just tractors and a skid steer. If the gas-powered F150 or cars ever received diesel there would be a lot more problems than just fines.

Bill Saflarski
02-22-2017, 2:11 PM
Here are the pictures of the actual tank:

353214 353215 353217 353218
Do you know what the fitting in the third photograph is? There is a small nozzle in the fourth photograph on the bottom as well. I also hear something clinking around inside when moving the tank. Any information you might offer will be appreciated.


I purchased a fuel storage tank for diesel gas that looks a lot like these:

353164 353165

The pumps pictured on the tanks appear to be electrical and look similar to this:

353166
Growing up in Kansas, many farmers had hand crank models similar to this style.

353167

1. Is there any great advantage of the electrical style pump or hand crank pump over the other?
2. How does one arrange to get diesel fuel delivered? Filling it by hand five gallons at a time doesn't sound enjoyable or practical.
3. Diesel fuel options include dyed, non-dyed, on-road, off-road, ULS ppm15, ULS ppm15#1, B20 & B50. Which one for tractors and skid steers?
4. The tank on the farm is 28" round by about 62" long. Is that a 150 gallon tank?
5. The tank is missing the plugs on the top side of both ends. One will likely get filled with the pump Where does one find plugs for a tank?
6. The neighbor has a "gauge" on his oil tank for his furnace. Should I purchase one of those instead of a plug?
7. Many farmers place diesel fuel storage tanks next to barns/buildings. Is that acceptable?

The details of starting up a hobby farm never seem to stop. Thanks for your help.

Farmer Rich, soon to be Farmer Poor

Hi Rich,
Diesel fuel (red) dyed off-road ULS ppm15, ULS ppm15#1, for tractors and skid steers. B20 & B50 is Bio-diesel blend if your tractor is older I would not use either. Bio-diesel will dissolve older pump seals and it dissolves varnish in the the fuel tanks, fuel lines and will plug injectors. B20 is 20% bio 80% regular diesel B50 is 50% bio 50% regular. Uls ppm 15#1 you can get dyed and not dyed all that is #1 Diesel (kerosene), uls ppm 15 is ultra low sulfur 15 parts per million. you would want winter blend ULS ppm15 #1 for any thing under 25F and put in algae additive this way your fuel wont grow algae and run a in line filter on your tank pump. in your 3rd pic that is for a vented cap you can get them as locking or not locking you can get them at TSC or any farm store all they are is a large raditor cap. the valve on the bottom of the tank is for draining water from the tank some used to gravity feed from it some times when on a wagon till it gets ripped off. If you inlarge the pic of the first tank in your first post you can see the cap that I'm talking about. I no longer farm my land I cash rent it out for the same reasons your finding out a small farmer doesnt stand a chance any more working his land with the price of Equipment, seed, fertilizer, storage bins, out buildings and so on.

just my .02 cents worth

Bill